RAILS ANNOUNCE CALEY 812 CLASS 0-6-0s

[No Decorum]

I’d agree with most of that. I’m sure British Railways would have loved to keep its locos clean, well, passenger ones anyway, if only it could get and afford the staff. Grubbing around a steam loco covered in grease, oil and dust takes a special sort of dedication. I also have a weakness for gloss locos, although I probably would change my mind if all models were gloss. However, just as with weathering, the gloss needs to be done properly, with matt black smokebox, running plate top and so on. A shiny black loco with a matching shiny black smokebox is nearly as bad as squirt of gunge paint on a “weathered” loco. The NRM finish is excellent, the Heljan gloss not quite so good.

 

Colour sells. ’Twas ever thus. We went through a magical period, when prices were soaring, of little black 0-6-0s, which were terribly under-represented in RTR even though they were in the majority until close to the end of steam. Until then, it was any excuse or none to use a coloured livery. It’s getting to be that way again.

 

Bachmann’s Wainwright C started it all and woke the manufacturer’s attention to pre-grouping. In its way, it was just as important as Heljan’s Falcon. The problem with pre-grouping is that there were, just before its end, something like 126 different companies with individual and often complicated liveries. Liveries are not much of a problem now with modern printing techniques but the variety is. Locos, it has been seen, usually sell by the bucketload, even if there isn’t much to match them but even that is changing – note the representative selection building up for the SE&CR. Offer me a pretty pre-grouping loco and I’ll go for it but what I long for is the coaching stock and wagons to go with them. Even the lovely Bachmann Birdcages don’t have quite the right type of loco to pull them.

[Steamport Southport]

To be honest I think that pre grouping livery sales are just a small amount compared to what actually sells. Notice that it was the BR liveried GNR Ivatt 4-4-2 that sold out quickly rather than the GNR or even LNER version. In the Model Rail J70 thread they've already stated that they haven't done a GER version in the first batch due to lack of demand.

 

I reckon that overall they will sell many more black than blue. Especially when the initial "isn't it pretty in blue" demand dies down.

 

 

 

Jason

[truffy]

To be honest I think that pre grouping livery sales are just a small amount compared to what actually sells. Notice that it was the BR liveried GNR Ivatt 4-4-2 that sold out quickly rather than the GNR or even LNER version.

And yet the only KMRC/DJM O2 that’s sold out is the SR.

[Steamport Southport]

And yet the only KMRC/DJM O2 that’s sold out is the SR.

 

Since when was the SR a pre grouping railway?

 

I also reckon they've sold more black O2s than green.

 

 

 

Jason

[truffy]

Since when was the SR a pre grouping railway?

 

I also reckon they've sold more black O2s than green.

 

Since about the same time as the LNER, which you mentioned in the same space as the GNR.

 

Perhaps they have sold more black ones, I don’t have your reckoning skills.

Edited March 4, 2018 by truffy

[Ian Hargrave]

And yet the only KMRC/DJM O2 that’s sold out is the SR.

Since when was the SR a pre grouping railway?

 

I also reckon they've sold more black O2s than green.

 

 

 

Jason

As Kernow commissioned seven versions of this six of which were black,the maths alone must indicate that this was bound to be the case.

[truffy]

As Kernow commissioned seven versions of this six of which were black,the maths alone must indicate that this was bound to be the case.

True, to a point. But the BR ones aren’t all the same, if you’re an aficionado of that period (Early, late, etc.) I can’t say that I am.

[asmay2002]

Notice that it was the BR liveried GNR Ivatt 4-4-2 that sold out quickly rather than the GNR or even LNER version.

 

That would be because that was the version they made least of.  Whether something sells out or not tells you nothing about popularity unless you know the production numbers.

[Steamport Southport]

Since about the same time as the LNER, which you mentioned in the same space as the GNR.

 

Perhaps they have sold more black ones, I don’t have your reckoning skills.

 

I was mainly trying to point out that whereas a lot of people think we all want the pretty colours, most of us want the everyday boring liveries that go with other things we have.

 

With me it's what black one. LMS or BR? No worrying about what it could pull as I already have plenty of wagons from both eras.

 

 

 

 

 

Jason

[Steamport Southport]

That would be because that was the version they made least of.  Whether something sells out or not tells you nothing about popularity unless you know the production numbers.

 

True.

 

But it was at least the minimum that Bachmann make which is 512 (ISTR). I've never seen one on the second hand market, not even from the usual carpetbaggers on eBay.

 

 

 

Jason

[adb968008]

True.

 

But it was at least the minimum that Bachmann make which is 512 (ISTR). I've never seen one on the second hand market, not even from the usual carpetbaggers on eBay.

 

 

 

Jason

I model BR era steam, though whilst I have both 251 and 62822.. i’m Actually thinking I might bin my BR one.

I’ve too many locos of my own and the GNR one I relate to much more than the BR one.. which really is an odd man out, that and the GNR one was Green in the 60’s anyway.

Similarly but conversely i’m Thinking to bin my 473 Birch Grove too, it’s a duplicate of the S.R. green one, again I relate too more even if this one was a 60’s livery.

 

When it relates to the 812, I’ve only ordered 828 as preserved, though when it comes to P’ing...I’ve got the Bluebell two (SECR/Blue) and a BR one.

 

If I am “normal”, then I suspect interest in pre-grouping liveries is definitely in part inspired by personal memories, which in my case is influenced by preservation.. i’m Too young for BR steam, let alone 1900’s.

Edited March 4, 2018 by adb968008

[truffy]

most of us want the everyday boring liveries that go with other things we have.

 

I must have missed that poll. 

 

I guess the manufacturers have some idea of what seems, what the market wants. And it's not limited to denizens of RMweb.

[Jammy2305]

Wonder if Hornby will take note that pre-grouping classes can be done in "as built" condition too   

 

Still waiting on them to wake up and do No.564 in GER Blue... (Another preserved pre-grouping 0-6-0 that carries a pretty livery... Surely the trend is obvious enough to them by now?).

 

In the interim, I may have to fill my "pretty blue loco" quota with an 812...

 

- James

[Legend]

I must have missed that poll. 

 

I guess the manufacturers have some idea of what seems, what the market wants. And it's not limited to denizens of RMweb.

I'll go for the everyday boring livery, although when can a Caley 0-6-0 ever be boring? But I'm also having the really cute Caley Blue Livery for specials . and I think that's what will appeal to a lot of people who don't model the Caley or Scotland . Its the livery that will sell it .Its generating its own market. I don't think there are that many people model SE&CR but I bet they bought the H class and C class for their attractive liveries not the black ones to run in everyday service .

[JonathonAG]

Wonder if Hornby will take note that pre-grouping classes can be done in "as built" condition too

 

Still waiting on them to wake up and do No.564 in GER Blue... (Another preserved pre-grouping 0-6-0 that carries a pretty livery... Surely the trend is obvious enough to them by now?).

 

In the interim, I may have to fill my "pretty blue loco" quota with an 812...

 

- James

I'd suggest that in this scenario, an 'as built' Caley 812 can be tackled with ease due to the very minor differences between the outshopped locomotive and later in life versions. The differences have been detailed earlier, but all are of such a minor scale that they can be tackled without having to alter the main tooling, and instead changing the smaller individual parts towards end of manufacturing (effectively production detailing).

 

Other classes, such as the North British J36, experienced a much harsher rebuilding between the Holmes 'as built' and the Reid rebuilt, with bigger boilers and a straight sided cab with a much less inclined roof. To included these differences would require a full separate tooling just to facilitate this, which would in effect create two difference models entirely.

 

That's not something that's completely unknown in the modelling world, however with Pre Grouping only just being explored as a greater potential for RtR, I suspect we're a good while off seeing a stage where we can cater for a Pre Grouping Class full life span if that includes major rebuilds.

[Lu4472ke]

A couple of days ago, I caved in and pre ordered one. I've got 828 as preserved.

[Lancaster622]

I have joined in with an order for an as preserved 828 just too beautiful not to!

[Ronny]

Am I the only one a tad reluctant to put down a deposit?

 

I don't remember having to do that before with any of the other manufacturers pre-orders and given some of the horrendous delays there have been between announce and delivery, I'm very glad. I pre-order a lot and if its main purpose is to give them an idea of how many to make, I'm more than happy to oblige. But having to make a deposit makes me pause.

 

Just asking, I have never bought from Rails before (that I can remember) so I have no bias for or against them.

[Les1952]

 

Am I the only one a tad reluctant to put down a deposit?

 

I don't remember having to do that before with any of the other manufacturers pre-orders and given some of the horrendous delays there have been between announce and delivery, I'm very glad. I pre-order a lot and if its main purpose is to give them an idea of how many to make, I'm more than happy to oblige. But having to make a deposit makes me pause.

 

Just asking, I have never bought from Rails before (that I can remember) so I have no bias for or against them.

 

 

I also have considered this loco and haven't yet put in a pre-order.

 

I probably WILL get one, but not until the price is revealed.

 

I'm also doing the same with the TMC G5 (which is much higher up my wish list) and for exactly the same reason.

 

Les

[Legend]

When I spoke to Rails at Model Rail Scotland they were estimating £160 as the price . I also asked the time frame and was told 18 months . Probably that’s what Rails had been told but I get the feeling that’s a bit of a stock answer. I think the G5 is also quoted at 18 months. Really we could do with this firming up. Of course the longer it takes the more Bachmann price increases it’ll be subject too.

 

Still this is my pet loco , so I’ve got a preserved one on order. When more details emerge I may we’ll get the LMS and BR variants too .

[Steamport Southport]

In the case of the 828 as preserved version, I would not be surprised if it sells out on pre-order. Quite possibly the same with the as built one. Those who ummm and ahhh about pre-ordering it because of the deposit or want to wait for more details stand a good chance of ending up disappointed. Look at how sort after the Bachmann SECR C Class became, and how much they go for on ebay. Same with the Hornby SECR H Class and William Stanier. Many locos in the hobby now are at the point of you don't pre-order = you don't get one.

 

Both of which are having second runs. Although the H Class is the preserved version that everyone seems to have wanted in the first place, so expect a few of the previous SECR one appearing on the second hand market.

 

 

 

 

Jason

[Lu4472ke]

Both of which are having second runs. 

 

 

They're doing the C class again?

[Oliver Rails]

 

Am I the only one a tad reluctant to put down a deposit?

 

I don't remember having to do that before with any of the other manufacturers pre-orders and given some of the horrendous delays there have been between announce and delivery, I'm very glad. I pre-order a lot and if its main purpose is to give them an idea of how many to make, I'm more than happy to oblige. But having to make a deposit makes me pause.

 

Just asking, I have never bought from Rails before (that I can remember) so I have no bias for or against them.

 

 

Hi, 

 

Bachmann have ensured us that the Caledonian 812 project is being fast tracked and that the 18 month turnaround is still an accurate timescale. 

We are working with Bachmann on obtaining a price for the model ASAP.

 

As for the deposit, yes we feel it shows true commitment from the customer and also gives us a definite order book rather than a maybe order book! The deposit money is not used and is held in a escrow account. 

 

I hope this helps

 

Thanks

Oliver @ Rails

[Redkiterail]

They're doing the C class again?

nope they did two variants of the livery first full blow second when the loco had reduce lining

[Steamport Southport]

They're doing the C class again?

 

Sorry if there is a misunderstanding. But I didn't underline the C class.

 

 

Same with the Hornby SECR H Class and William Stanier. Many locos in the hobby now are at the point of you don't pre-order = you don't get one.

 

 

 

 

Jason