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Whilst working on the CAD for my LSWR T3, a thought struck me!

 

Once overhauled by Swanage, will 563 be the only Pre-Grouping express loco (in original pre-grouping condition - the T9 doesn't count!) in running order?

 

I know there are numerous tanks and goods locos (812, O1, P, etc...) but are there any other express locos from before 1923 that are either running or soon to be running?

 

Another thought was liveries: can anyone think of a pre-grouping loco not in a pre-grouping livery? Excepting Bluebell in her own livery, I can think of the Beatties and a few terriers in BR Black, plus 5322 which is currently half in BR Black, Half in (pre-grouping) ROD Black!

 

Beyond that, I open this topic to the discussion of all pre-grouping preservation matters (including locos that were preserved pre-grouping!)

 

E. Missenden

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I will still do the CAD I think, if only because it's cheaper! Once I've done the CAD you can have a 2mm one! Albeit as a two-piece kit, composed of body and chassis, with another kit for the tender.

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Very good question I will have a think. The Beattie's are in their 1935+ form having being rebuilt with longer frames and a new steel buffer beam at the front. There is a NER/LNER O/G5 tank being built does that count? 

 

Marc 

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If were built post 1923 then it definitely doesn't count! If it looks largely the same as it did pre-1923, then that's fine.

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The only thing I can think of off the top of my head is the Adam 415 at the bluebell in LSWR livery. But she won’t be running for years if ever.

 

Big james

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So, other than being a tank engine and not in service, the 415 fits the criteria?

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Well...

 

My initial query related to Pre-Grouping express passenger locos in service or soon to be in service, so the Radial doesn't fit that.

 

My second query was for Pre-Grouping locos wearing other than a pre grouping livery, and the Radial has only won pre-grouping liveries in preservation (To the best of my knowledge.)

 

The only thing I think it would fit would be preserved LSWR locos, but I wasn't looking for that!

 

 

Anyway, I did say this thread was open to the discussion of all matters relating to pre-grouping in preservation, and indeed preservation in (the) pre-grouping (era)!

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Did you seriously expect otherwise, Jim? ;)

Well, I suppose one has to accept that one's eccentricity is unlikely to be catered for by manufacturers. ;-(

 

I should have added that the loco in question is not, in fact, Jumbo, as that was the earlier Drummond 296 class. The 812's were sometimes called Dunalastair Goods, as they were were essentially an 0-6-0 version of the Dunalastair.

 

Jim

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The  Isle  of  Wight  Steam  Railway  has  two  working  terriers,  both  currently  in  SR  Olive  green. (1  early, 1  late)

Both  have  carried  pre-grouping  liveries,  (Freshwater  Yarmouth  &  Newport  Rly  green  and  Isle  of  Wight  Central  Rly  black),  one  has  also  run  in  both  SR  wartime  black  and  then  BR  black.

The  O2  currently  in  BR  black  has  run  in  SR  Malachite  and  SR  Olive  green,  likely  to  be  Malachite  again  after  the  next  overhaul.  The  policy  is  portray  any  appropriate  (IOW)  livery  over  a  period  of  time.

 

Pete

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They are lovely engines, and it’s a lovely, friendly railway, but they are tank engines and not the “pre grouping express locos” that “Sir Eustace” was asking about...

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Indeed, but it's not an express passenger loco, as charming as all of these locos are.

 

Sooo... by my reckoning the T3 will be the only one in running order anytime soon. Can't wait for it to (eventually) appear at the Bluebell with at least one piece of authentic LSWR stock, and also can't wait to hear it at the MHR going 'Over the Alps'...

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So far, it has rarely been anywhere near the OP, so who cares?

Edited by Regularity
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Go on... bring in narrow gauge. I suspect I've answered my own question regarding express locos and the liveries question is being answered.

 

Carry On!

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GNR(I) no.s 131 and 171, 131 has just been restored, 171 has run plenty in the past, not sure on current situation.

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I forgot about Broad Gauge...

 

Actually...

 

That means that there will be another pre-grouping express passenger engine in service soon: there's two at Didcot, so one must be returning to steam at some stage soon?

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GNR(I) no.s 131 and 171, 131 has just been restored, 171 has run plenty in the past, not sure on current situation.

Depends if they paint them green, blue or black, though.

 

They are magnificent engines.

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Talyllyn Railway engines Talyllyn and Dolgoch have certainly carried their original liveries in preservation; though every time I visit there seems to be a different livery on one or both. As for the express passenger designation: they ran the fastest trains on the line and still do. Coincidentally the fastest and slowest trains are one and the same.

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Much altered since, but Flying Scotsman comes within a whisker of qualifying. Having emerged from the works in February 1923, it would have been largely complete prior to the grouping. Much of January would have been devoted to applying paint and waiting for it to harden off.

 

In addition, when it initially entered service, it carried GNR livery. 

 

It is, however, highly doubtful if any operational loco can really be considered pre-grouping in the full sense of the term because almost everything on it will have been replaced at least once since 1923.

 

Pre-group design, is really about as close as one can get in terms of a complete, working machine today.

 

John

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It'd be interesting how much they'd need to replace to bring one of the locos preserved early enough to be in more-or-less pre-grouping condition to steam. Gladstone, for example, although preserved post-grouping surely much of it is pre-grouping material? If it was overhauled prior to sale to the SLS then it could actually be in good nick? Or would its period of time out of use preclude that.

 

We'll see what happens with the T3, but I get the impression it was pretty worn out by the time it was preserved, or did it follow the apparently common trend of receiving a full overhaul? Will it be the longest time from service to preservation running? It is longer than any Barry locos, and most others preserved earlier have either run or have yet to run.

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Wheel centre castings; main frames, cylinder block castings (but not liners) some platework, motion (although bits could be replaced even there) and possibly some parts of the boiler and firebox shell. Oh, maybe the name and number plates.

Usually it was the frames which denoted the identity of the engine, and even they might be replaced...

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