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If it helps, and supposing you haven't seen the photo's before, there are a couple of Gloucester Wagon works pictures of Severn and Wye coaches in the Oakwood press book "Carriage Stock of Minor Standard Gauge Railways" (Locomotion Papers 109) with quite a lot of the underframe and solebar detail highlighted. The body panelling of these is similar to the "Cleminson" coaches of the North Wales Narrow Gauge Railway built at around the same time by Gloucester Wagon company. I built a 7 mm scale model of the 1st saloon in one of these pictures some 25 years ago using this picture and a drawing from an article in (I think) Model Railway Constructor. Unfortunately the model has been mislaid by it's owner, otherwise it would have become a resin kit by now to go with my other esoteric, sell one every two years, kits! Correction, just found the drawing for what it is worth, not Constructor but the short lived Scale Model Trains for May 1995 on page 235 part of an article on "Compact Coaches" by Giles Barnabe Pages 234/5.

Edited by Phil Traxson
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10 hours ago, Phil Traxson said:

f it helps, and supposing you haven't seen the photo's before, there are a couple of Gloucester Wagon works pictures of Severn and Wye coaches in the Oakwood press book "Carriage Stock of Minor Standard Gauge Railways"

That is more than likely a book that I should buy for myself.  I'll need to go searching next week though when my book purchase budget hopefully has recovered.  I'm trying not to get myself too scattered though as I have a number of projects already that I'm trying to catch up on.

The West Highland Heritage (PDF) magazine issue No. 71 for June 2016 has a photo of the 'Cleminson' coaches.  Not the best photo, but it does give an idea of the depth of the panelling.  Issue No. 54 has an article on Cleminson and his invention which also has a useful photo showing the panelling style.

 

A3UlNsZ.jpg

 

My copy of the Railway Modeller for December 1953 has arrived and commedably quickly too.  The GER coach drawings are just what I wanted and is a major relief as some of the now out of print books that deal in part (sometimes only a tiny part) with the subject of GER carriage drawings were priced at 'sale of a kidney' level when I was attempting to find reference material.  The drawings have no signature and the magazine index doesn't mention an author which I thought was a bit odd.

 

Edit:  After a bit of searching I've been able to find out that the January 1953 issue of RM has six wheel GER coach drawings, but no sign of any other GER coach drawings, - or at least not in 1953 anyway.

 

 

Edited by Annie
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CJ Freezer was editor of Railway Modeller between 1950 and 1978.  In the early days, I believe that to fill out the content of the magazine, CJ would write articles which would not be publicly accredited to him.  I'm not saying that he provided the drawings, just that he might have written any descriptive text!

 

 

 

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That Vulcan drawing is interesting. I've only seen photos of the Vulcan engines Sharpness, Sabrina, and Forrester as MR Nos. 1124A - 1126A, after reboilering. They look very similar to the Midland 1102 Class 0-6-0Ts, especially the arrangement of the cabs, though the tanks and bunker are taller. I'd supposed they had been given Johnson-style cabs when rebuilt but the drawing shows that's how they were built. Vulcan had built a batch of the 1102 Class in 1875-6 so I rather think their drawing office made use of the Derby drawings for aspects of these Severn & Wye engines. The bunker front, with its curved top-plate, seems identical.

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11 hours ago, Phil Traxson said:

If it helps, and supposing you haven't seen the photo's before, there are a couple of Gloucester Wagon works pictures of Severn and Wye coaches in the Oakwood press book "Carriage Stock of Minor Standard Gauge Railways" (Locomotion Papers 109) with quite a lot of the underframe and solebar detail highlighted. The body panelling of these is similar to the "Cleminson" coaches of the North Wales Narrow Gauge Railway built at around the same time by Gloucester Wagon company. I built a 7 mm scale model of the 1st saloon in one of these pictures some 25 years ago using this picture and a drawing from an article in (I think) Model Railway Constructor. Unfortunately the model has been mislaid by it's owner, otherwise it would have become a resin kit by now to go with my other esoteric, sell one every two years, kits! Correction, just found the drawing for what it is worth, not Constructor but the short lived Scale Model Trains for May 1995 on page 235 part of an article on "Compact Coaches" by Giles Barnabe Pages 234/5.

 

Thanks Phil, I've got a copy of the Oakwood Press book tucked away on the bookcase, so will have a proper look later. 

 

That issue of Scale Model Trains sounds most useful, but typically I cannot seem to locate a copy of it anywhere! Any chance of a scan of it please Phil? 

 

 

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19 minutes ago, NeilHB said:

That issue of Scale Model Trains sounds most useful, but typically I cannot seem to locate a copy of it anywhere! Any chance of a scan of it please Phil? 

 

You have a PM Neil.

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13 hours ago, Phil Traxson said:

If it helps, and supposing you haven't seen the photo's before, there are a couple of Gloucester Wagon works pictures of Severn and Wye coaches in the Oakwood press book "Carriage Stock of Minor Standard Gauge Railways" (Locomotion Papers 109) with quite a lot of the underframe and solebar detail highlighted. The body panelling of these is similar to the "Cleminson" coaches of the North Wales Narrow Gauge Railway built at around the same time by Gloucester Wagon company. I built a 7 mm scale model of the 1st saloon in one of these pictures some 25 years ago using this picture and a drawing from an article in (I think) Model Railway Constructor. Unfortunately the model has been mislaid by it's owner, otherwise it would have become a resin kit by now to go with my other esoteric, sell one every two years, kits! Correction, just found the drawing for what it is worth, not Constructor but the short lived Scale Model Trains for May 1995 on page 235 part of an article on "Compact Coaches" by Giles Barnabe Pages 234/5.

 

Ah, I had forgotten that.  I'll dig out my copy.

 

4 hours ago, Annie said:

That is more than likely a book that I should buy for myself.  I'll need to go searching next week though when my book purchase budget hopefully has recovered.  I'm trying not to get myself too scattered though as I have a number of projects already that I'm trying to catch up on.

The West Highland Heritage (PDF) magazine issue No. 71 for June 2016 has a photo of the 'Cleminson' coaches.  Not the best photo, but it does give an idea of the depth of the panelling.  Issue No. 54 has an article on Cleminson and his invention which also has a useful photo showing the panelling style.

 

A3UlNsZ.jpg

 

My copy of the Railway Modeller for December 1953 has arrived and commedably quickly too.  The GER coach drawings are just what I wanted and is a major relief as some of the now out of print books that deal in part (sometimes only a tiny part) with the subject of GER carriage drawings were priced at 'sale of a kidney' level when I was attempting to find reference material.  The drawings have no signature and the magazine index doesn't mention an author which I thought was a bit odd.

 

Edit:  After a bit of searching I've been able to find out that the January 1953 issue of RM has six wheel GER coach drawings, but no sign of any other GER coach drawings, - or at least not in 1953 anyway.

 

 

 

I wish I'd known, I have the 1953 drawings.  Given the diagram book drawings have no detail, these are pretty much the only drawings.

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1 hour ago, Edwardian said:

I wish I'd known, I have the 1953 drawings.  Given the diagram book drawings have no detail, these are pretty much the only drawings.

That is what really surprised me James, - the GER Society has the diagram book drawings which really aren't all that much use and no proper carriage drawings, - or at least none that I've been able to find apart from the Tollesbury and W&U tramway coaches.

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1 hour ago, Annie said:

That is what really surprised me James, - the GER Society has the diagram book drawings which really aren't all that much use and no proper carriage drawings, - or at least none that I've been able to find apart from the Tollesbury and W&U tramway coaches.

 

Survival of original drawings can unfortunately be dependent on whether anyone took an interest at the time a particular drawing office closed. Was Stratford the scene of a mass incineration?

 

What does the NRM hold?

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1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Survival of original drawings can unfortunately be dependent on whether anyone took an interest at the time a particular drawing office closed. Was Stratford the scene of a mass incineration?

 

What does the NRM hold?

The national archives people picked over what was at Stratford and took it all away to their secret lerkum.  Fortunately word reached the ears of a GER enthusiast that the Eastern Region clean up vandals were about to have a bonfire with the rest and he made a daring last minute bid of 50 quid the lot.  His offer was accepted and he and some friends stuffed it all into a large van and took it away.  Whether everything survived who can say, but GER Society volunteers have been labouring for a very long time over cataloging what the society managed to get and making sense of it all.

A protocol has been worked out for accessing what the national archive people have, but it doesn't seem to be exactly straightforward to me and certainly not the kind of thing that I could do from the other side of the world.

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Annie, me old antipodean mate, I don’t have the Dec53 RM drawings, I guessing they’re part of a series of GER coaches drawn by P.E. Barnes. I do have the ones from February 53 RM, showing a 6w full brake, and a 6w locker composite. There are notes explaining how other coaches can be formed using the drawings, third, brake third, first.

There’s more in the February 56, a 6w CCT, and 6w third lav clerestory.

if you want the 1908 bogie corridor stock, third, brake third, composite, they’re in the MRC for April 1963.

other coaching stock, 4w CCT In RM June70, gas tank wagon MRN October59, and you can have a blast from the past, model 4w  brake-van, science museum group 1983-7954. 

Edited by Northroader
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I've found a Gloucester works photo of the North Wales Narrow Gauge coach in "The Welsh Narrow Gauge Railway" By J.D.C.A. Prideaux showing the panels and beading but unfortunately it is quite dark and doesn't scan well. However here is my take on it in model form, although I think i may have the shallow centre beading a little too wide. If you click on the picture it should take you to my Flickr pages and there are half a dozen pictures of these contained in 2 albums there.

PW 131

 They have real working Cleminson chassis too.

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5 hours ago, Northroader said:

Annie, me old antipodean mate, I don’t have the Dec53 RM drawings, I guessing they’re part of a series of GER coaches drawn by P.E. Barnes. I do have the ones from February 53 RM, showing a 6w full brake, and a 6w locker composite. There are notes explaining how other coaches can be formed using the drawings, third, brake third, first.

There’s more in the February 56, a 6w CCT, and 6w third lav clerestory.

if you want the 1908 bogie corridor stock, third, brake third, composite, they’re in the MRC for April 1963.

other coaching stock, 4w CCT In RM June70, gas tank wagon MRN October 59, and you can have a blast from the past, model 4w  brake-van, science museum group 1983-7954. 

James has very kindly given me the February 53 RM drawings Mr Northroader and I was fortunate enough to find a copy of the December 53 RM magazine which arrived yesterday.  Just now I've been able to purchased a copy of the February 56 RM from ebay Spain of all places  so thank you for that.

P.E.Barnes is certainly a familiar name when it comes to railway drawings, but if most of these GER drawings are his work he certainly scattered them about the place.  The drawings in the MRC for April 1963 are by Iain R Smith apparently.  I shall keep on searching  :read:

 

News Flash:  I've just discovered that the GER Society has a compiled list of nearly all the GER drawings that have been published in model railway magazines so I will be downloading that shortly.

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A fairly normal kind of day at Hopewood on Sea.  Physically and appearance wise my (alternative) Norfolk layout has transferred over very nicely to TANE.  However all is not well with all my carefully written out schedule sessions I also brought over from TS2012.  I've ended up having to delete them and any asset associated with their scripting and start all over again due to all manner of strange errors that I haven't been able to solve.  I've been told that this isn't uncommon when moving an older layout over to TANE (or TS2019) and the only solution is delete it all and start again.  That came as a bit of a shock, but on the other hand I think it will work out well long term as the old schedules had been heavily rewritten and patched so often it was a wonder they worked as reliably as they did in TS2012.

 

lYcx1M7.jpg

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5 hours ago, Annie said:

A fairly normal kind of day at Hopewood on Sea. ...

 

lYcx1M7.jpg

 

The two blokes looking at the crates " 'ere Fred, we'll never get them on 't back of 'er"

 

 

 

Edited by Hroth
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37 minutes ago, Hroth said:

The two blokes looking at the crates " 'ere Fred, we'll never get them on 't back of 'er"

Well it's been nigh on two years that they been standing and looking at those crates Mr Hroth so they definitely ain't hasty.

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One of the big problems I've been having in TANE with my Norfolk layout is that all the exit portals have developed a strange fault where they lock up when a train enters them and not only that will freeze the simulator for anything up to ten minutes.  I tried other types of portal track, but no luck.  I tried a work around using a 'Remove Train' script command which worked after a fashion, but wasn't ideal since the 'return train loaded/unloaded after 'x' minutes function' was no longer available.

Before I decided to transfer my Norfolk layout to TANE I had been experimenting with replacing portals with return loops and in the particular case of my Lickey bank layout which had its portals completely replaced with multi-track return loops at each end of the layout the method had been proved to be highly successful.  My Norfolk layout had a lot more than just the two sets of portals though so I did hesitate more than a little.  

The end of the line to the west beyond (faux) Bunbury had already been converted and so had the southern end beyond Little Keldon, but that left the E&GR with seven branches, a secondary route and its main northern line;  the north eastern end of the B&FER with its main line and one branchline; AND the Hopewood & Windweather Tramways with three portals.

 

Today's subject is the two portals at Cathill Junction on the Hopewood Tramway.  

At Cathill the line to Mollywood (home of the famed Mollywood Sand & Gravel Co.) runs beside the road to the left of Cathill station.  And on the right hand side of the station (out of shot in the first picture, but just visible beyond the orchards at the top of the second picture.) the branchline to Flinders Mill cuts across the fields.  Both these sections of track end in portals; - or they did until I got at them this afternoon.

 

NHAkpcG.jpg

 

And you certainly guessed correctly if you picked that agricultural produce is the lifeblood of the Hopewood Tramway.

 

vEMlkuD.jpg

 

So how do you replace two portals with loops that will represent supposedly distant towns?  Well I did it like this.

 

QpxnJR6.jpg

 

Mollywood is a modest sized town and is the terminus for the tramway.  The two signposted tracks are interactive for unloading various kinds of goods.  The goods shed track handles milk, eggs, cheese, sawn timber, mysterious liquids in barrels and mysterious things in boxes, sacks and crates.  Sand and gravel is the other source of traffic on the tramway that helps to keep the line afloat.  Timber from the sawmill at Elgar Wood is a steady source of income as well.

 

iBLLv35.jpg

 

Flinders Mill is a largish village that I've never really had a clear idea of what it is all about even though it's been a part of the layout almost from the start.  A steady amount of sawn timber goes out that way as well as sand and gravel.  Passenger trains are usually mixed with a couple of vans and/or sheeted opens coupled behind a solitary tramway coach.  I shall have to give it a bit more thought.

 

T5qAm3F.jpg

 

 

Edited by Annie
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3 hours ago, Hroth said:

Flinders Mill has the air of the end of the Metropolitan Railway beyond Aylesbury, all rural openness...

Eventually I would like to model either Mollywood or Flinders Mill, - or both of them, - but before I do that I need to get what I've got repaired and working properly.  The semi-hidden loops will do for now since they will help to give me the illusion of trains going off somewhere for a while and coming back with the fruits of their labours.  Since I mostly operate the layout either from near ground level or from the footplate simply screening the loops off with trees should work out fine.

 

That is a good thought though, - the rural extremities of the Metropolitan Railway would be something for me to look at when it comes time to build up Flinders Mill.

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On 26/04/2021 at 01:11, Annie said:

That is a good thought though, - the rural extremities of the Metropolitan Railway would be something for me to look at when it comes time to build up Flinders Mill.

The  Disused Stations website is an excellent resource.  The Winslow Road photo gallery ticks all kinds of boxes for me http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/w/winslow_road/   Now that I come to think about it Bleakhorse Road station on my Norfolk layout is very much of the same species as Winslow Road as shown in the later series of photos.  The 1885 photo of the station is the kind of thing the Hopewood and Windweather tramways would go in for, - though with a much lower platform height.

Don't bother looking at the gallery 2 page for Winslow Road by the way as it's totally depressing.

 

Much the same could be said for  Granborough Road as well with its very rural setting.  All good stuff for me to file away for later.   http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/g/granborough_road/index.shtml

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My Norfolk layout is broken and is undergoing repairs.  All very worrying and a confounded nuisance.  I'm supposed to be contributing some snaps to the GER Society's Showcase project, but I can't do much if my layout's in a mess.

 

Some testing was done today though which showed some promise that things are going in the right direction and working as they should at last.

 

C7pLxF4.jpg

 

F8MAUwg.jpg

 

6XDKbz8.jpg

 

sNmcqh1.jpg

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