Annie's Virtual Pre-Grouping, Grouping and BR Layouts & Workbench

[Annie]

Broad Gauge cheer up picture; - Iron Duke at Newton Abbot 28 July 1890.

Spent the entire day trying to wake up properly and failing miserably.

 

[MikeOxon]

17 hours ago, Regularity said:

I have always taken the view that the BR 7MT pacifics  were little more than a Pennsylvania RR K4s, modified to suit British conditions and loading gauge. BR standards: what Americans were building in the 1910s…

Interesting to speculate if Churchward's successor had taken as much interest is American design as the man himself, then we could have seen a 'Swindonised' version around the time of the Grouping.  According to Wikipedia, Gresley did take an interest and based his own Pacific boiler on that of the K4s.

[Jake The Rat]

15 hours ago, MikeOxon said:

... the Imaginary Locomotives thread...

 

Fascinating thread, thanks for the link. I will have to dig through all of the 348 pages.

[Edwardian]

6 hours ago, Annie said:

Broad Gauge cheer up picture; - Iron Duke at Newton Abbot 28 July 1890.

Spent the entire day trying to wake up properly and failing miserably.

 

 

Surely the furthest west and single could have run on the mainline?  For some reason I imagine them coming off at Exeter. 

[Annie]

I've made a start on Crowcombe Heathfield on my Minehead branch layout at last.  There's still a lot to do as so far what I've mostly done is clear away everything that was still hanging about from the original TS2004 layout that shouldn't be there using the 1887 OS map as a reference.  I changed out the platform model for the same kind as I used at Minehead and lowered it down to a good 19th century height and generally tidied things up so that I can still run trains should I want to.  The station building is a placeholder as I'm using it to test out a set of textures suitable for representing the sandstone station buildings on the branch.  I have access to a number of building meshes that I have permission to reskin how I please so it's just a case of sorting out some that are suitable for what I want.

I always feel like I'm taking a holiday from everything when I'm working on my Minehead branch layout so I think I'll stick at it for a while and try not to get myself distracted by anything else.

 

[Annie]

Broad Gauge cheer up picture.  The crew and cab of 'Iron Duke' at Bristol.  A Rev. Malan photo.

 

[Hroth]

12 hours ago, Annie said:

Broad Gauge cheer up picture.  The crew and cab of 'Iron Duke' at Bristol.  A Rev. Malan photo.

 

 

Given the posessive hand on the reverser, I assume the bloke in the cap is the driver. The boiler backplate looks sparse!

 

Hope that's not a jug of cider propped on the regulator...

 

[Caley Jim]

13 minutes ago, Hroth said:

 

Given the posessive hand on the reverser, I assume the bloke in the cap is the driver. The boiler backplate looks sparse!

 

Hope that's not a jug of cider propped on the regulator...

 

Backplates were in those days!

 

I suspect that's a pot of oil or grease.

 

Jim

[Northroader]

Thirsty work, Jim. Oil or grease would more likely be placed on the tray above the firehole door, where it would be kept warm and fluid.

[Annie]

Broad Gauge cheer up picture.  'Dragon' South Devon Railway.  The range of company uniforms on display is interesting.  I may have posted this picture before, but I like it so no complaints.

 

[Edwardian]

Even by the high standards of your Broad Gauge Gallery, that photograph is special.

 

My first and most enduring love is the Great Western in South Devon. Childhood holidays were as a rule taken in the South Hams, and that is where I met, and fell hopelessly in love with, steam. The South Devon Railway has always had a special place in my heart. 

 

I believe Dragon was one of 10 goods engines built for the SDR by Avonside in the period 1872-1875 and designed to be convertible. I assume that 2164 is her GW number, and, so, the picture dates between 1876 and 1892.

 

There is so much else here to enjoy; as you say, the uniforms, and the shed is a glorious structure.

 

But where is it?

 

 

[NeilHB]

I'm really enjoying these Broad Gauge cheer up pictures Annie, they are lovely. Thank you. 

[Annie]

37 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

Even by the high standards of your Broad Gauge Gallery, that photograph is special.

 

My first and most enduring love is the Great Western in South Devon. Childhood holidays were as a rule taken in the South Hams, and that is where I met, and fell hopelessly in love with, steam. The South Devon Railway has always had a special place in my heart. 

 

I believe Dragon was one of 10 goods engines built for the SDR by Avonside in the period 1872-1875 and designed to be convertible. I assume that 2164 is her GW number, and, so, the picture dates between 1876 and 1892.

 

There is so much else here to enjoy; as you say, the uniforms, and the shed is a glorious structure.

 

But where is it?

 

 

Launceston shed in around 1890 according to the Broad Gauge Society James.  And yes it's a special photo because of all the small details to be found in the image and it's very nice clear photo for the time as well.

 

The South Devon Railway is of course of interest to me since they provided locomotives to the Cornwall Railway.  Unfortunately I lack your close connections to South Devon so all I can do is look at old photos and dream (sigh).

 

33 minutes ago, NeilHB said:

I'm really enjoying these Broad Gauge cheer up pictures Annie, they are lovely. Thank you. 

I'm glad you're enjoying them Neil.  After getting double jabbed I've been very fatigued and not all that well so to distract myself I've been plotting over my Broad Gauge projects and figuring out what I want to do with them.  Naturally along the way I've been finding interesting locomotive photos which I've been posting here.

[Edwardian]

6 minutes ago, Annie said:

Launceston shed in around 1890 according to the Broad Gauge Society James.  And yes it's a special photo because of all the small details to be found in the image and it's very nice clear photo for the time as well.

 

Excellent, thanks. Cries out to be modelled.

 

6 minutes ago, Annie said:

The South Devon Railway is of course of interest to me since they provided locomotives to the Cornwall Railway.  Unfortunately I lack your close connections to South Devon so all I can do is look at old photos and dream (sigh).

 

 

Give me a child until he is seven, and I will give you a lifelong railway enthusiast!

 

Just pulled RCTS Part 3 off the shelf.  Dragon was built in September 1873 and converted to SG in March 1893, and was given a new SG number, 1323. She was rebuilt in September 1902 with a back-domed S4 boiler, and withdrawn in August 1904.  

 

The class had 4'9'' wheels with a w/b of 7' 8 1/2'' + 7' 8 1/2''.  On conversion to SG they had outside frames. 

 

This is another class member, Emperor, showing both the o/s frames gained on conversion to SG and her 1902 replacement boiler.  I prefer the original appearance!

 

[Annie]

I prefer the original appearance as well James.  I do find myself wondering just how much of the original Broad Gauge engine was left after being regauged and reboilered.

 

Thanks for hunting out the post conversion information, - it does help to round out the story of these locomotives.

[Annie]

I've found a drawing of a Broad Gauge china clay wagon that's been converted to standard gauge.  What I really want though is a drawing of it before it was messed with.

 

[MikeOxon]

1 hour ago, Annie said:

.............

The South Devon Railway is of course of interest to me since they provided locomotives to the Cornwall Railway.  Unfortunately I lack your close connections to South Devon so all I can do is look at old photos and dream (sigh). .............

Seeing the reminiscences your photo produced, perhaps I may be allowed to recount a bit of interesting family history on your thread, Annie. 

 

It is recorded that some of the Broad Gauge engines of the 'Sir Watkin' class, originally built for goods train workings on the Metropolitan lines, were bought by the South Devon.  Although built as side-tank condensing engines, they were converted to saddle tanks on the SDR.  The photo is interesting for, among other things, the extended buffer planks for shunting standard-gauge stock.

 

 

My family interest is that,  according to his staff record, my wife's great-grandfather was “Fined £1 towards repairs for passing the danger signal and running ‘Sir Watkin’ into collision with ‘Bulkeley’”.   This incident happened at Bullo Pill, on the South Wales line from Gloucester, in April 1870 and is the only record I have seen of any of these engines being deployed in this area! 

 

My speculation is that they may have been used for working the long and difficult Haie Hill Tunnel in the Forest of Dean, where their condensing gear could have been useful.  Whatever else happened, they were sold to the SDR in June 1872.

[Annie]

Thanks Mike a nice piece of history for me to add to my Broad Gauge knowledge.  I have a drawing of a SDR wagon with extended buffer planks for working with standard gauge wagons so it's interesting to see it done on a locomotive.

 

£1, - that would have been a lot of money back then and would have put a considerable dent in your wife's great-grandfather's savings.

[Hroth]

6 hours ago, Annie said:

And yes it's a special photo because of all the small details to be found in the image and it's very nice clear photo for the time as well.

 

An excellent photo, it would be taken on a reasonably large glass negative, possibly half-plate (4.5"x6.5") and a reasonable degree of sensitivity to still any movement.  The orthochromatic sensitivity of the film means that blue and green colours will appear lighter than expected, and red darker. Looking at the piece of track in the close foreground, its either a trainset radius curve, the lens is moderately wideangled or is exhibiting barrel distortion.  There's nothing quite like pre-grouping photography...

 

They obviously didn't believe in crew comfort, that cab is positively minimalist!

[DonB]

 

 

 

10 hours ago, Annie said:

Broad Gauge cheer up picture.  'Dragon' South Devon Railway.  The range of company uniforms on display is interesting.  I may have posted this picture before, but I like it so no complaints.

 

 

Another thing which intrigued me... is the loco (2164 Dragon) standing on small Turntable?   Is that (centre foreground)  upright and angled Bar there for the work force to "lean on" to rotate the T/T ?

Where was the coal stored? And how much could it carry? 

Edited August 19, 2021 by DonB
additional text.

[MikeParkin65]

On 15/08/2021 at 00:25, robmcg said:

 

I haven't logged in here for some time but I couldn't let this go unremarked.

 

 

 

 

 

 

And you have been missed!

[Caley Jim]

I particularly like the old chap on the extreme left.  They don't make 'em like that any more!!

 

Jim

[Annie]

44 minutes ago, DonB said:

 

 

 

 

Another thing which intrigued me... is the loco (2164 Dragon) standing on small Turntable?   Is that (centre foreground)  upright and angled Bar there for the work force to "lean on" to rotate the T/T ?

Where was the coal stored? And how much could it carry? 

Yes that's a small turntable Don.  I've seen other examples of surprisingly small diameter turntables of a similar kind in old photos that are plainly for turning tank engines.  I would think that the piece of ironwork standing upright is for rotating the turntable.  With it having been foreshortened in the photo it's not east to tell exactly what shape it is.

I don't know much at all about the coaling arrangements on 'Dragon', but I do know that some older engines didn't have a bunker as such and the coal would be put on board the footplate in sacks.

[Regularity]

2 hours ago, Annie said:

Yes that's a small turntable Don.  I've seen other examples of surprisingly small diameter turntables of a similar kind in old photos that are plainly for turning tank engines.

What the French call a “plaque tournant”.

[DonB]

13 hours ago, Regularity said:

What the French call a “plaque tournant”.

 

Why does the French nomenclature seem/sound  so much more elegant that=n the English ?