Annie's Virtual Pre-Grouping, Grouping and BR Layouts & Workbench

[Regularity]

Do you have a date and location, Annie?

 

Look at all the other information in that photos, though: “Cheap boot shop”, and the lightweight rail with some rather large keys. Given the length and colour, I wonder if they were bits of spare wood hammered in when the originals fell/wore out?

[NeilHB]

It’s at Seaham Harbour around 1890 - http://beamishtransportonline.co.uk/2020/04/shdc-no-17-a-history-and-review/.
 

She’s now at Beamish, and there are plans to restore her to working order eventually and fit a replica cab too. 

[MikeOxon]

On 01/01/2022 at 14:45, Annie said:

Queen class 'Prince Christian' circa 1975

Although some had wing plates, I don't think the smokebox itself was ever flared like that -  unless it really is a 1975 (sic) version

 

[MikeOxon]

10 hours ago, Annie said:

This wonderful survivor by Head Wrightson and Co of Middlesbrough. 

This is where digital modelling has an advantage - no need to try and fit in a motor

[Annie]

42 minutes ago, MikeOxon said:

Although some had wing plates, I don't think the smokebox itself was ever flared like that -  unless it really is a 1975 (sic) version

 

Steve Flanders said to me that he spent a good while staring at a lot of old photos in an effort to make as early a version of 'Prince Christian' as he could.   Without seeing his reference pictures I couldn't really comment.

And bother to that typo, - bother bother bother.....  My woolworths eyesight really peeves me off.

[MikeOxon]

3 hours ago, Annie said:

Steve Flanders said to me that he spent a good while staring at a lot of old photos in an effort to make as early a version of 'Prince Christian' as he could.   Without seeing his reference pictures I couldn't really comment. ...

 

The image I have of 'Prince Christian' No.1118 looks like this:

 

 

According to RCTS Part 4, No.1118 was built in March 1875 with a domeless (S0) boiler.  It received a forward dome (S2) in May 1884 and a rearward dome (S4) in October 1899.    The class started with open splashers which were later filled in.  No.1118 then had an oval plate above each driving axle box, a garter with coat of arms on one splasher and a garter with building details on the other.  Smokebox wings disappeared in the nineties, together with side clack-boxes.

 

With that dome and filled in splashers, yours cannot be earlier than 1884.

 

Mike

[Compound2632]

There does seem to be a bit of a problem with the springs on the virtual No. 1118, which appear to be floating in mid-air, at least at the front, and certainly don't appear to be transferring weight to the axleboxes. No amount of looking at photos can entirely substitute for a technical understanding of how the thing works.

[Annie]

5 hours ago, MikeOxon said:

 

The image I have of 'Prince Christian' No.1118 looks like this:

 

 

According to RCTS Part 4, No.1118 was built in March 1875 with a domeless (S0) boiler.  It received a forward dome (S2) in May 1884 and a rearward dome (S4) in October 1899.    The class started with open splashers which were later filled in.  No.1118 then had an oval plate above each driving axle box, a garter with coat of arms on one splasher and a garter with building details on the other.  Smokebox wings disappeared in the nineties, together with side clack-boxes.

 

With that dome and filled in splashers, yours cannot be earlier than 1884.

 

Mike

 

5 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

There does seem to be a bit of a problem with the springs on the virtual No. 1118, which appear to be floating in mid-air, at least at the front, and certainly don't appear to be transferring weight to the axleboxes. No amount of looking at photos can entirely substitute for a technical understanding of how the thing works.

Hum...... I'll message Steve sometime today and respectfully point out the errors.

[Annie]

Morning cheer up picture:  A railmotor approaching Penzance across the viaduct, probably around 1908.  Thank you very much Didcot Railway Centre as I now have another piece of the puzzle fo help my Penzance to Camborne project along.  And the railmotor is a bonus too since I like railmotors.

 

 

[Annie]

Morning cheer up picture:   I'd really like to own a clockwork one of these.

Not much happening at the moment as we've got our horrible nasty hot Summer going on here and I hate it.  It's only really possible for me to do anything once the sun sets and temperatures drop to a bearable level.  I have become a creature of the night; - Autumn can't return soon enough.

 

[Compound2632]

50 minutes ago, Annie said:

Morning cheer up picture:   I'd really like to own a clockwork one of these.

 

That does look rather more appealing than the hideous attempt Hornby made at it at their low point in the early 1980s.

 

It was probably a good thing they were as tacky as they were back then, as it got me onto trying to do better myself.

[Annie]

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

That does look rather more appealing than the hideous attempt Hornby made at it at their low point in the early 1980s.

That's what I enjoy about pre-war 'O' gauge tinplate locomotives.  Despite their simplicity they are very good at capturing the essential character of the prototype.

[Annie]

After traversing the shattered remnants of civilisation for the past three months the copy of 'Early Railways' I'd ordered from Pen & Sword is finally in my hands.  Well not now because I'm typing this, but you know what I mean.  During the week before Christmas a further delay had been caused by a postal delivery person declaring that the letterbox attached to my front fence was too small to receive the package.  An official card to this effect had been left in my letterbox which also advised me that I could pick up my parcel from the post office on the other side of town.

Having never been accused of letterbox inadequacy before this was somewhat upsetting.  It was also upsetting because for me the post office might as well be in Africa due to me not being able to walk that far.  Just to make it a little more difficult there would have no doubt been heaving masses of careless infected about down the main street of town attempting to give away their money for a load of old tat.  (Now there's an idea for a miniature wargaming scenario).  My intrepid daughter couldn't go and fetch the parcel for me as she'd hurt her leg and was hobbling about.  Our single motorcar town taxi service didn't look to be a good prospect so my daughter and I agreed we would leave it until the holiday season was over to keep any possible risks to a minimum.

Today with all the holiday seeking hordes from neighbouring cities now safely back where they belong my daughter set off down a near deserted main street and fetched my book for me.  Words were again said at the post office about my letterbox inadequacy*, but at least I now I have my much awaited copy of 'Early Railways'.

I've owned the Kindle version of this book for a while now only all the photos, drawings and diagrams within its digitised pages were too small to be of use which was nothing short of being frustrating.  The printed book however is lovely with big clear pictures.  The chapter on Mike Sharman's amazing models and mixed gauge layout is particularly good in this regard.  So this book very much has the Annie seal of approval.

 

 

* How big does it have to be for heaven's sake.  Any bigger and it would qualify for tiny house status!

[rocor]

16 hours ago, Annie said:

After traversing the shattered remnants of civilisation for the past three months the copy of 'Early Railways' I'd ordered from Pen & Sword is finally in my hands.  Well not now because I'm typing this, but you know what I mean.  During the week before Christmas a further delay had been caused by a postal delivery person declaring that the letterbox attached to my front fence was too small to receive the package.  An official card to this effect had been left in my letterbox which also advised me that I could pick up my parcel from the post office on the other side of town.

Having never been accused of letterbox inadequacy before this was somewhat upsetting.  It was also upsetting because for me the post office might as well be in Africa due to me not being able to walk that far.  Just to make it a little more difficult there would have no doubt been heaving masses of careless infected about down the main street of town attempting to give away their money for a load of old tat.  (Now there's an idea for a miniature wargaming scenario).  My intrepid daughter couldn't go and fetch the parcel for me as she'd hurt her leg and was hobbling about.  Our single motorcar town taxi service didn't look to be a good prospect so my daughter and I agreed we would leave it until the holiday season was over to keep any possible risks to a minimum.

Today with all the holiday seeking hordes from neighbouring cities now safely back where they belong my daughter set off down a near deserted main street and fetched my book for me.  Words were again said at the post office about my letterbox inadequacy*, but at least I now I have my much awaited copy of 'Early Railways'.

I've owned the Kindle version of this book for a while now only all the photos, drawings and diagrams within its digitised pages were too small to be of use which was nothing short of being frustrating.  The printed book however is lovely with big clear pictures.  The chapter on Mike Sharman's amazing models and mixed gauge layout is particularly good in this regard.  So this book very much has the Annie seal of approval.

 

 

* How big does it have to be for heaven's sake.  Any bigger and it would qualify for tiny house status!

 

 

I agree wholeheartedly with your appraisal of this book, having myself received a copy, as a present, the Christmas before last.

[Annie]

Not really working on anything or doing anything of note at the moment due to being badly knocked around by our horrible Summer.  A week's worth of 30+ degree temperatures has made me very grumpy indeed.  I did discover a Trainz layout based closely on the Sierra Railway's Angels branch so to distract myself I've been pitting my steam controls driving skills against the 4-5% + gradients of the Angels branch with a prototypical and intrepid Baldwin light 'Prairie' as my engine of choice.  

It's very much a challenge and all I can say is that the footplate crews who worked the branch definitely earned every cent of their wages.  Can't post any snaps because they are American (eek!) and definitely outside the remit of the pre-grouping forum.

[Annie]

Morning Cheer up picture:  K&ESR No.8 RINGING ROCK and No.3 BODIAM at Tenterden. (Charlie Verrall collection).  No other details are known about this photo unfortunately.

 

EDIT:  At Rolvenden, just down the line from Tenterden Town.  Thought to be most likely between 1933 and 1937.  Additional information provided with thanks by Tom Burnham of this parish.

 

KESR 8 RINGING ROCK and 3 BODIAM at Tenterden by Charlie Verrall, on Flickr

Edited January 9, 2022 by Annie
More information

[MikeOxon]

On 07/01/2022 at 01:16, Annie said:

So this book very much has the Annie seal of approval.

Thanks for the info.  I've had a look  and the section about stub points may simplify my BG modelling thoughts.  A surprising number of BG models too.

 

Mike

[Tom Burnham]

14 minutes ago, Annie said:

Morning Cheer up picture:  K&ESR No.8 RINGING ROCK and No.3 BODIAM at Tenterden. (Charlie Verrall collection).  No other details are known about this photo unfortunately.

 

KESR 8 RINGING ROCK and 3 BODIAM at Tenterden by Charlie Verrall, on Flickr

At Rolvenden, just down the line from Tenterden Town.  Thought to be most likely between 1933 and 1937.

 

Edited January 8, 2022 by Tom Burnham
Corrected typo.

[Annie]

3 minutes ago, MikeOxon said:

Thanks for the info.  I've had a look  and the section about stub points may simplify my BG modelling thoughts.  A surprising number of BG models too.

 

Mike

One criticism I've read about the book is that it doesn't go into enough detail on some subjects, but I feel that's missing the book's purpose which is to point modellers in the right direction to find out more about 19th century railways.  And it does cover the Broad Gauge reasonably well with some very nicely reproduced pictures of models too.

[Annie]

 

I have run out of tea!  An absolute disaster.  Of course I am speaking of the very high quality tea I purchase from a specialist tea merchant as my sole luxurious indulgence, - and not poor quality supermarket tea made from floor sweepings and unidentifiable organic matter.  Fortunately the order I placed last week is in transit and should arrive within a day or so.  Until then I'm having to put up with the tea my daughter buys which is marginally acceptable, though I really don't like those awful porous paper packets they put the tea in.  My daughter tells me that they are 'tea bags' and that I should put them in my cup and pour boiling water over them instead of trying to tear them open to get the tea leafs out.  I did try that, but I'm sure my tea tasted of a hint of old damp train tickets and not steam era ones either.

 

[MikeOxon]

On 03/01/2022 at 00:52, Annie said:

Today's cheer up picture:  This wonderful survivor by Head Wrightson and Co of Middlesbrough.  Wot do you mean it's ugly, - I think it's wonderful.

This is just one from a splendid collection of photos at https://east-durham.co.uk/seaham-old-photographs/nggallery/old-photgraphs/railways

[MikeOxon]

6 hours ago, Annie said:

I have run out of tea!  An absolute disaster.  Of course I am speaking of the very high quality tea I purchase from a specialist tea merchant as my sole luxurious indulgence, - and not poor quality supermarket tea made from floor sweepings and unidentifiable organic matter. 

Unlike most Brits., I have no liking for fermented Indian tea.  In hot weather, though, I find nothing more refreshing than a few small cups of China green tea - no milk of course.

[Annie]

13 minutes ago, MikeOxon said:

Unlike most Brits., I have no liking for fermented Indian tea.  In hot weather, though, I find nothing more refreshing than a few small cups of China green tea - no milk of course.

I have China green tea in my order as well Mike.  While I do like good quality Assam or Darjeeling tea, - China green tea is very much my favourite.

[Annie]

Major cheer up announcement:  My consignment of tea has been delivered!  All is now right with my world.

 

 

Supplementary cheer up picture:  Original publicity illustration of the 'Great Bear' because why not.

(Illustration courtesy of the National Railway Museum)

 

 

[Annie]

Light and minor railways cheer up picture:  Glencarron Halt platform in 1873 with a fine example of a Mckenzie & Holland request stop signal.