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Annie's Virtual Pre-Grouping, Grouping and BR Layouts & Workbench


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Just ordered “The Knotty- an illustrated survey of the North Staffordshire Railway” from World of Books because I am urgently feeling the need for some reference material if I'm going to any more messing around on the ex-NSR  Loop Line.

I hunted about amongst the dust and cobwebs on my bookshelves, but it definitely looks like the book on the NSR I purchased back in my 20s has gone.  I did discover though that I still owned a copy of 'A Further Selection of Locomotives I Have Known' by J.N. Maskelyne as well as D.Baxters 'Victorian Locomotives'.  Both are a bit battered since I purchased them from Ye Olde Dingy Hole Bookshop down some forgotten backstreet in Onehunga at some time in the past I can't exactly remember.  They have all their pages though and at the end of the day that's all that counts.

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1 hour ago, Annie said:

I am now blessed for I have cast mine eyes upon holy writ and arcane knowledge is mine!  My copy of 'Great Western Way' has arrived this day!

Beware, the complexities of GWR liveries at the turn of the 19th/20th centuries proved difficult to fathom, even for GWW!

 

Although I used to enjoy the Microsoft Flight Simulator, I have never got into train sims.  Somehow, a lack of detail seems more acceptable in the airborne environment than in close-up ground-level views.  Having said that, some of the more distant backgrounds come over very well and it may be that the moving images give a more pleasing impression than some of your rather demanding still images.

 

I feel that your early BG trains look too bright.  As I understand, the early Holly Green was darker and somewhat bluer than later GWR colours.  Also, early wagons were brown, then red, while grey was a comparatively late innovation.  Whereas the painting was probably darker, the bright-work would have been highly polished, with strong specular reflections that are difficult for simulations to represent correctly. 

 

It does seem to be a fascinating way of representing early styles of railway operation, as on the broad gauge, with different signalling methods and ways of working.  It's also worth remembering that those old railways looked more like newly laid motorways, when they were first built, rather than than the romantically overgrown branch-lines that so many modellers like to create.

 

I look forward to seeing more representations of Broad Gauge days.  Any chance of some video clips? :)

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Thanks very much for your comments Mike.  I haven't really done anything yet with sorting out my engines yet.  Most are quite old digital models now and I think the green their maker used was a best guess based on the colour from a later period.  I can adjust specular effects and shininess on the brightwork to a limited degree and I have yet to do any real experiments with this.

 

The grey wagons in my screenshots are all wearing placeholder textures since our small team's main focus was on making sure everything fitted together properly and did what it should.  My job will be to make new textures for these wagons and red is very much the colour of choice.

 

Yes I've noticed sometimes that a screenshot I took from a moving train no longer looks quite so good as a still image.  Lighting, the way colours are rendered and shadows can be difficult things to simulate.  My Broad Gauge screenshots were taken in the older TS2012 version of the simulator since that's what I'm using to build my layout and the lighting effects can be a bit variable.  The latest version TS2019 has the potential to render the digital world in a realistic manner, - the only problem is getting the necessary settings setup properly since the control interface is difficult to use.

 

I've got a long way to go yet on the layout to get it how I want it look.  And yes your point about the weeds and lineside growth has been noted.  Old photos very much show that the lineside was kept clear and clean so I will be going back and removing most of that rampant growth.

 

Video might be possible and it's something that I'll take a look at.  How successful I might be will much depend on how sleepy I am, but I'll give it a go.

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As someone who is struggling to model the broad-gauge in the 'traditional' way, the potential for computer modelling seems enormous. 

 

I do like those shots of lonely-looking trains travelling through broad sweeps of near-deserted countryside.  With my Flight Simulator modelling, my main pleasure was in improving the levels if detail as new software techniques became available.  I was particularly pleased with an interior that I made for the 'Hindenberg', which seems amazingly 'modern' for the 1930s.  I could cruise across the landscape, while wandering around the lounges :)    I assume you could model carriage interiors in a similar way, which would give fascinating insights into early rail travel.

 

361396306_Hindenberg_diningroom800x600.jpg.2f8b9b1caf9cb8fb33f319927977222c.jpg

 

more of my FS images at http://home.btconnect.com/mike.flemming/flightsi.htm

 

Mike

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17 hours ago, MikeOxon said:

As someone who is struggling to model the broad-gauge in the 'traditional' way, the potential for computer modelling seems enormous. 

 

I do like those shots of lonely-looking trains travelling through broad sweeps of near-deserted countryside.  With my Flight Simulator modelling, my main pleasure was in improving the levels if detail as new software techniques became available.  I was particularly pleased with an interior that I made for the 'Hindenberg', which seems amazingly 'modern' for the 1930s.  I could cruise across the landscape, while wandering around the lounges :)    I assume you could model carriage interiors in a similar way, which would give fascinating insights into early rail travel.

 

361396306_Hindenberg_diningroom800x600.jpg.2f8b9b1caf9cb8fb33f319927977222c.jpg

 

more of my FS images at http://home.btconnect.com/mike.flemming/flightsi.htm

 

Mike

Unfortunately Mike I'm getting a not authorised to access this page message when I try to access your link.

 

I have a copy of FS, - the centenary edition I think.  I haven't run it for a long time though.  It was the biplanes I was mostly interested in rather than the later aircraft.

 

The Hindenberg's interior is a surprise.  I think most people, - me included, - have a very steampunk notion of what the cabin interiors of those airships was like.

Most digital model coaches these days do have interiors.  Some are very simple and representational, but some of the better coach creators make a very nice job of them.

 

Midland Railway 1st class compartment by Ken Green.

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"I do like those shots of lonely-looking trains travelling through broad sweeps of near-deserted countryside."

 

With railway simulators the thing I really like about them is that I'm not tied to the size of a baseboard, - or the problem of trying to find somewhere in my house to set up a baseboard.  That can be a two edged sword though when it comes to doing the scenic modelling on a digital layout that is 15 or more scale miles long.  One of my layouts has a line that crosses my representation of part of the Norfolk fens and I can honestly tell you that modelling an apparently flat and empty landscape is just as difficult to do properly as a forested landscape or one that has more signs of human habitation.

 

Oeui1vf.jpg

Edited by Annie
added a picture
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So I got fed up with historical modelling with staring at maps and doing research so I decided to go back to the Hopewood Tramway for a while.  Nothing like a bit of a holiday beside the seaside and all that.

 

When I last was messing around playing trains on the layout there were a few things that I wasn't happy about so I decided to put them right.  The western end of the layout where I tacked on the line to Hunstanton was pretty much an unholy mess so I've cut that part off for now.  It may return later, but sited differently and with the connecting trackwork done in a more plausible way.  For the present time Moxbury is in limbo as well, but will make a return once I can figure out how best to do that.

 

At the other end of the layout I wasn't happy with the interchange yards with the 3ft gauge Sumwheir District Railway.  I liked the arrangements at Tenpenny Wharf though so what I've done is cut off the SDR leaving the Tenpenny Wharf section and converted it to standard gauge.  Some messing about was needed with changing the interchange yard into a standard gauge goods yard and a new connecting track with the Windweather Tramway had to be laid down, but I'm a lot happier with how things are now.

The Tenpenny Wharf section was added onto the SDR sometime after I built it so no horrible devastation has been done and I will have another look at the Sumwheir District Railway when I next feel like I need a 3ft gauge fix.

 

Some snaps.

 

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I played trains for a bit on the Hopewood Tramway itself and did the passenger service run from Bluebell Woods to Elgar Wood and back again, but I only took snaps of the outward journey.

 

Snaps are in the correct order (or should be).

 

Approaching Bluebell Sands.  Sorry I missed taking any snaps at Bluebell Woods.

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Bluebell Sands station.

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Racing the bus.  Which wasn't a fair race because my odd little make believe tram engine has a governor fitted and the bus didn't have one.

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On the way to Hopewood on Sea.

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Hopewood on Sea station.

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The station building has been 'borrowed' from a Breton metre gauge line and I think it suits my little tramway very nicely.  The footbridge closest to the camera provides the townsfolk safe access to the beach.  The other one provides access to the Victorian promenade pier. 

Bbr6w7F.jpg

 

Leaving Hopewood on Sea.

OJToNgM.jpg

 

 

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Continuing with my holiday snaps.

 

Approaching Barlows Farm Halt.

OsHL7Jt.jpg

 

vrcKTSp.jpg

 

Barlows Farm Halt station.  This originally was just a halt, but over time more sidings were needed then a goods shed and the wood distillation works got built so a new station building was built shortly afterwards and the station became a bit more important than it used to be.  The tramway works crew never got around to changing the station sign, but nobody seems to mind.

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Elgar Wood station.

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And that's all the snaps.  Sorry my brain switched off for a bit so I didn't get any more snaps of Elgar Wood station.

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Super modelling!  The simulation allows a very different style from what is possible within the confines of a baseboard.  It makes me feel that I must look into simulator programs since one of my main aims in modelling is to visualise earlier railways in a way that grainy monochrome photos simply cannot do.  I also like to juxtapose different models to compare the sizes of different locomotives and stock.

 

The carriage interior looks good.  I'd be intrigued to see one of those broad gauge first class carriages where the compartments were divided by lengthwise partitions into pairs of 4 seat compartments side-by-side.

 

Mike

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I'm intrigued by the signal in the middle of the tracks at Hopewood on Sea, effectively putting it on the right hand side of the track it refers to.  This was normally only done where sighting was an issue.

 

Jim W

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24 minutes ago, Caley Jim said:

I'm intrigued by the signal in the middle of the tracks at Hopewood on Sea, effectively putting it on the right hand side of the track it refers to.  This was normally only done where sighting was an issue.

 

Jim W

The signal is the station starting signal Jim.  When the footbridge was put in place I had a really difficult time trying to place the station starter signal and I went through my sizeable collection of signals trying to find a solution that didn't involve using a gantry signal or a custom mod to a signal model.  In the end placing the M&H home signal between the tracks seemed to me to be the kind of solution the tramway company would have gone for.   There's a wide variety of signal types on the tramway representing second hand purchases from other lines as well as some disc signals in use here and there.  I've done my best to keep it all very simple since there's usually no more than two or three engines in steam at any time and most sidings have locking levers requiring a key to be given to the driver by the porter/signalman (at the small stations) or the signalman (at Hopewood on Sea) with any movements not covered by signals being controlled by a flagman,  Trainz doesn't have any working flagmen yet, just static ones that I can combine with an invisible signal. 

I work on the principle that the drivers know the line well and the maximum speed on the tramway is 20mph with the speed restricted further in station areas so full signalling isn't necessary.  Since the line is on the brink of full GER control the small Saxby & Farmer GER signal boxes at Hopewood on Sea are new arrivals on the line replacing the tramway's home built signal frame sheds boxes.  Once the GER takes over fully (not yet!) the signalling will more than likely get overhauled, but for the present time it does all function as it's meant to.

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1 hour ago, MikeOxon said:

Super modelling!  The simulation allows a very different style from what is possible within the confines of a baseboard.  It makes me feel that I must look into simulator programs since one of my main aims in modelling is to visualise earlier railways in a way that grainy monochrome photos simply cannot do.  I also like to juxtapose different models to compare the sizes of different locomotives and stock.

 

The carriage interior looks good.  I'd be intrigued to see one of those broad gauge first class carriages where the compartments were divided by lengthwise partitions into pairs of 4 seat compartments side-by-side.

 

Mike

Thanks Mike.  The tramway follows the coast for nearly all of its length with the branch to Elgar Wood being the only part that strikes off inland so it's it's really nice seeing the coast line vanishing off into the distance in both directions while I'm working trains over it.  It was a lot of fun to build since it's very much a local railway kind of operation that manages to stay afloat despite the nearby presence of a mainline railway company by going places that the mainline company doesn't.

 

When I came to make my attempt at building Truro of the 1880s period using OS maps and the very few old photos that are available I found the railway simulator very good for showing me what would work and fit in place when details weren't very clear.  Parts of my Truro are a hybrid of a couple of different old maps with the trackplan modified  in places because despite the best efforts of some clever Trainz folk no-one has come up with dual gauge track that works properly at junctions.  Because of this my West Cornwall Railway including the Newham branch has been modelled as being Broad Gauge (as it should have been, she cries). 

 

Something I haven't done is properly investigate the interiors of my Broad Gauge coaches so perhaps it's time I took some snaps.  Some of the coaches that were originally made for older versions of Trainz might be a bit basic though.

 

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Making up for the lack of snaps of the Hopewood Tramway's small station at Bluebell Woods from yesterday.

Audaciously sited right beside the GCR station at Bluebell Woods it must've annoyed the GCR something fierce when the GER purchased a majority shareholding in the H.T.Co. 

 

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The GCR station at Bluebell Woods.  The layout was a GCR one before I took up an interest in the GER and somehow the GCR presence has remained even though I've thought about converting it fully to being GER more than once.  It's just how it is and I don't try to explain it, though possibly the considerable amount of GCR engines and rolling stock I own might have something to do with it.

 

aT2opq0.jpg

 

The MPD and yard at Bluebell Magna.  The station is on the old Barrow Hills and Foxhollow Extension Railway that was snatched up by the GER when the B&FER's mighty dreams went bust.  So there are three stations all in sight of one another on this part of the layout and to the annoyance of the GCR the new town grew up on the GER side.  The old B&FER line is single track and meanders all over the countryside though so perhaps the GCR shouldn't worry so much.

 

XTapUZf.jpg

 

Sacre E8's are in charge of the GCR local passenger services.  Mostly because I like them and I own four of them.  They handle the passenger service very smartly too.  I only own coaches in the older dark oak and French grey livery so I'm not very good at being a purist for time periods or prototype fidelity am I :blush: 

 

j2d0MT1.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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More E8s at work.

The clerestory coach is a litho coach; - behold the power of smoke and mirrors with texture work.  I made this third class coach and a clerestory parcels van and then I sort of dried up and didn't make any more.

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The E8s work on an automatic timetable with station stops dialed in.  When I'm doing some other tasks on the layout I always know when one is out and about because of the amazing smoke plume they generate.  I think they would be about the most smoky engines I have in my collection bar none.

QoH78IG.jpg

 

Meeting up with a sister engine near Hopewood on Sea.  It was the GCR's refusal to build a station at Hopewood on Sea because they considered their station at Bluebell Woods to be close enough to the then very small seaside town that led to the Hopewood Tramway Company being formed and the impetuous little tramway being built.

lTunuRH.jpg

 

 

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On 06/11/2019 at 11:48, Annie said:

Amazingly enough Mr Northroader I did take flying lessons at one time, but I proved to be a terrible pilot.  But I at least I have three hours of flight time to prove I wasn't boring when I was young.  Possibly 'a day at the races' isn't quite me, but I do like the outfit she's wearing; - a touch understated, but very elegant.

 

QXEqc8G.jpg

 

I do like the new avatar, Annie. 

 

The artist may have intended her to be at the races, but we know that she is in fact trainspotting.

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4 hours ago, Edwardian said:

 

I do like the new avatar, Annie. 

 

The artist may have intended her to be at the races, but we know that she is in fact trainspotting.

Ah you've discovered my secret James.  I wonder why she always goes to race meetings that are near a railway her friends ask themselves.

 

It's nice to be catching up with all kinds of half finished jobs on my GER and affiliated (imaginary) railways layout.  My daughter hasn't been well these past few weeks and she's presently in hospital so I haven't felt much like doing any serious historical stuff.  My daughter is getting better, but I can't help worrying about her so keeping myself busy with my not entirely serious little railway empire is a good thing for me to be doing at the moment.

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I've heard from my daughter this morning.  Doctors are continuing to prod at her and investigate and things are being done to effect a cure so I feel a little more relieved now.  When she was first sent to hospital with a referral from her GP they sent her back home again.  That invoked my social worker's ire and I wrote out a report of exactly what had been happening with my daughter over the past two or three weeks and her GP's attempts to remedy it and I finished it off with the firm statement that I did not want my daughter sent home again without the investigations her GP has requested having been carried out.  I then signed  it invoking my retired social worker's status, rank, file, serial number & etc.

And when my daughter went back to our local hospital for the second time they admitted her.  It would be nice to think I managed to terrify them, but perhaps this time somebody with a brain in their head actually read the GP's referral and gave my daughter a proper examination.

 

Anyway my trainset.  All has not been entirely well.  For the trackwork on my rambling little empire I've been using quite an old series of bullhead track models that have a lovely scruffy used looking appearance, but just recently they started to become invisible in a random patchy manner that had me quite perplexed.  Trains could still run over the invisible track which told me that it was a texture problem, but I couldn't understand why this should be so.

MvrPj12.jpg

 

It seems that a recent graphics card driver update has caused my graphics card to not be impressed by the track's ancient texture file formatting.  On the Trainz forum it was explained to me how I might edit the trackwork's file format to a later version to fix the problem, but it all sounded a bit beyond my ability to edit magical scripting incantations so I thought I'd try and find some substitute trackwork without this problem.

I looked at an awful lot of trackwork models and hated most of them.  With the later forms of trackwork there has been a tendency to make track that is like some kind of extrusion with an unbelievably perfect appearance which just looks plain wrong.  The very latest types for TS2019 have taken this to an extreme with most types available looking so utterly perfect and flawless with every stone in the ballast identical to its neighbour and the edges of the ballast shoulder looking like they were cut by a machine to thousandths of an inch tolerances.

For the main line trackwork this was about the best that I could find.

OgmM0mP.jpg

 

oF7WEmS.jpg

 

If I combine it with a textured ballast mat like I've been using on my Broad Gauge layout it looks better and I think it will do.  I'm just not looking forward to having to lay it all in place.  (Test piece experiments carried out on the former B&FER single track line)

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I tried out a lot of different track models on the tramways without much success.  Most were terrible and looked all wrong.  This is about the best of the lot, but it's still not a patch on the mossy overgrown bullhead track model I was using before.

cmFtDmn.jpg

 

I do have some track models that are made without ballast and I'm seriously thinking about using those.  I'd need to adjust all the track to have the sleepers just proud of the ground surface though which again would be a long and tedious job, but worth it in the long run.

 

 

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Good to hear your daughter is receiving the treatment she needs.  I seems to be a world-wide problem to have to fight for timely hospital admissions.

 

I sometimes had problems with runways disappearing in Flight Sim and it was usually down to the priority order of various scenery components.  It's good to know that your engines are not troubled by such minor matters as missing track :)

 

Mike

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F00485B5-2D07-45E5-810F-EFDFCE374127.jpeg.d3a7f794c64033b2a081dd1108cd0c2d.jpegI was looking for another job recently and found this, and being as how you like some broad gauge, (it’s the only picture that didn’t appear in the recent Broadsheet)

Hope your daughter does get better treatment at the hospital, it must be a worry.

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Thanks Mike, thanks Mr Northroader, your good wishes mean a lot.  When I was still working as a social worker I'd often have to go and fiercely advocate for the clients I was working with so it was nice to know I've still got it in me.  Problem is constantly having to do that was tough on mind and body and eventually my own health packed up and I had to take early retirement.  I don't feel quite as worried about my daughter now, but she's still very much on my mind.

 

Thanks very much for the Hamilton Ellis Broad Gauge picture by the way.  That's one I hadn't seen before so it was a nice cheer up.

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