Annie's Virtual Pre-Grouping, Grouping and BR Layouts & Workbench

[Edwardian]

2 hours ago, Hroth said:

 

Seeing as how Hornby has a range of "Generic" 6-wheelers, perhaps they could be tempted to produce a similar TPO?

 

Now that WOULD be fun! Or perhaps not...

 

 

Actually, I need to use the Hornby 6-wheelers for Firsts, as Hattons has nothing suitable.  I am not looking forward to adding bolections!

[Annie]

4 hours ago, eheaps said:

 

It's great to see someone else making use of the TPO system I made.

 

When it comes to GER express locos a T19 or Petrolea type single would be relatively straightforward as a conversion from the T26. They are on the list of potential future projects. The GER loco I'd really like to model though is a P43. If anyone knows where decent drawings can be found I'd be interested to hear. I've only been able to find side views of it. Something with end and plan views would be useable, but the ideal thing would be a works GA type drawing showing the inside motion in side and plan views.

Ah.... Holden's P43 class.  These had shockingly short lives having been bumped out of their role by the 'Claud' 4-4-0s, but they do fall right into my time period.  Ed, I don't believe in bothering creators to make assets, but i could be awfully tempted when it comes to Holden's P43 class single drivers.  I will ask around at the GER Society and see what I can come up with for you.

(GER Society picture)

[Annie]

5 hours ago, eheaps said:

 

 They do. Here's a demonstration using my Highland Jones TPO model.

 

 

Absolutely brilliant Ed.  I have yet to setup your TPO assets on my own Norfolk layout as I've been sleepy so haven't been doing much, but it's definitely going to happen.

 

[Annie]

Ships. 

 

'Red Star' has now officially taken its place at the passenger wharf.   'Red Star' does have a name painted on its bow, but it's too blurred to read.  The former occupant of this prime spot at the wharf can be seen in the background by the breakwater and to my mind 'Red Star' is the better ship for the job in terms of generally being more plausible than that cargo liner I was using before.

 

Take a look at the profile of 'Red Star's hull.  I've only really seen this kind of hull on photos of early French warships with tumblehome hulls.  Plainly the style must've found its way to the French merchant marine as well.

 

A close up snap of 'Red Star'.  This is an impressively well detailed digital model.

 

And this is the other French ship I selected.  I'm not entirely sure what it is as it has a fairly impressive winch on the foredeck and a large pulley wheel mounted over the bow.  I like it though.  Having lived on an off-shore island for a time that was served by a variety of scruffy ex-navy coastal patrol craft of one sort or another I find myself much attracted to small ships that do a proper job of work. 

After I'd gone back to live on the mainland the operating licences were purchased by some corporate lot who scrapped all the old ships and brought in a bunch of horrible modern ferries tastelessly painted in gaudy colours.  

 

[Hroth]

In closeup, both look like naval hulls with gun turrets removed from the upper works.

 

However, both of them have spoon bows. Too fancy for a merchant ship, not functional enough for a naval ship. It would have been fun to see them with ram or semi-ram bows, but the convention would be a pretty well vertical affair.

 

In general, the smaller one looks like a sloop design that the Royal Navy would have used for coastal and harbour defence between WW1 and WW2.  That boom on the foremast, and the huge winch look suitable for minesweeping but not cargo. The enclosed bridge is way out of period. And there's no hatches. 

 

The Red Star Line hull screams warship. Mercantile ship sides are straight up and down to maximise cargo space which a tumblehome loses. She has 8 derricks but no hatches to lower cargo into, if she were a passenger ship, she would have fewer derricks but at least one cargo hatch. Then there's that big winch on the foredeck. It should be for the anchor chains, but you wouldn't run them over a coaming like that, it would just collapse the first time it was used. The forebridge and the aft bridge (and those derricks forrard) remind me of the Titanic. And there's the big naval searchlight on the aft mast.

 

They're sort of steampunk ships, the creator seems to have selected various elements from a library of ship parts and plonked them on a random hull of the size wanted.  Its like someone created a locomotive with a random selection of parts from ALL the pre-grouping companies!

 

Of course, I could be wrong, something like them might have existed...

 

 

Edited June 30, 2021 by Hroth
Started on a tablet but got annoyed with its limitations...

[Annie]

Yes I did wonder if 'Red Star' was a kind of ship chimera  Mr Hroth.  All those derricks that don't seem to have purpose seem very strange.

The small sloop-like one reminded me of the ex-WW2 naval craft that had been converted to ferries that I travelled on when I was living 'overseas' on an off-shore island.  As soon as I read 'minesweeper' in your message i saw what it was at once.  And I do agree about its bridge being too modern.

I'll pack the minesweeper sloop away again on my archive hard drive, but I think 'Red Star' can stay for the meantime until I can find another ship of around the same size.

[Edwardian]

11 hours ago, Annie said:

Ships. 

 

'Red Star' has now officially taken its place at the passenger wharf.   'Red Star' does have a name painted on its bow, but it's too blurred to read.  The former occupant of this prime spot at the wharf can be seen in the background by the breakwater and to my mind 'Red Star' is the better ship for the job in terms of generally being more plausible than that cargo liner I was using before.

 

Take a look at the profile of 'Red Star's hull.  I've only really seen this kind of hull on photos of early French warships with tumblehome hulls.  Plainly the style must've found its way to the French merchant marine as well.

 

A close up snap of 'Red Star'.  This is an impressively well detailed digital model.

 

And this is the other French ship I selected.  I'm not entirely sure what it is as it has a fairly impressive winch on the foredeck and a large pulley wheel mounted over the bow.  I like it though.  Having lived on an off-shore island for a time that was served by a variety of scruffy ex-navy coastal patrol craft of one sort or another I find myself much attracted to small ships that do a proper job of work. 

After I'd gone back to live on the mainland the operating licences were purchased by some corporate lot who scrapped all the old ships and brought in a bunch of horrible modern ferries tastelessly painted in gaudy colours.  

 

 

My first thought was 'another lovely ship model'

 

My second was 'why is Annie modelling the Channel Islands fishing grounds?'

 

Nice Colman's van on the quay

[Annie]

27 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

Nice Colman's van on the quay

They are fairly difficult to miss aren't they.  More of Ed Heaps's lovely work.

 

[Hroth]

13 minutes ago, Annie said:

They are fairly difficult to miss aren't they.  More of Ed Heaps's lovely work.

 

 

Hot stuff!

 

No doubt it will be carrying the powdered stuff in tins so you can make it up to the consistency/strength required...

 

[Annie]

Some snaps I took along the Tenpenny Branch while I was doing track testing and generally playing trains.

 

 

 

 

[Hroth]

2 hours ago, Annie said:

Some snaps I took along the Tenpenny Branch while I was doing track testing and generally playing trains.

 

 

 

 

 

Thats what we want, locomotives that are smaller than the individual coaches in their train!

 

[Annie]

27 minutes ago, Hroth said:

 

Thats what we want, locomotives that are smaller than the individual coaches in their train!

 

Yes Terriers are awfully good at doing that aren't they.  By rights 'Windweather' shouldn't have gone as far as Lockes Soak since it's not equipped for roadside running.

Now there's a thought, - I wonder if I could put tramway skirts on a Terrier.......hmmm.....

[Edwardian]

I've always wanted to see a Terrier in WNR livery, so I planned for one to be acquired for goods and relief passenger work of the Fakeney branch. I remember there were some objections to that at the time, but c,1900, from which point the LB&SCR started off-loading them, coincided with the WNR's financial crisis and placed it in the market for second-hand bargains. 

 

You cannot argue with a Terrier on a freelance line; there were so many scrapped by the Brighton that your might-have-been railway might have saved one ...

 

Indeed, one of the joys of freelance is the ability to rescue real locomotives that were scrapped!

 

I know of two ex-Cornwall Minerals Sharp Stewarts and a Crewe Type that are grateful for the existence of the WNR!

[Hroth]

2 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

I've always wanted to see a Terrier in WNR livery, so I planned for one to be acquired for goods and relief passenger work of the Fakeney branch.

 

So that would make it a Norfolk Terrier.

Wikipedia

 

4 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

Indeed, one of the joys of freelance is the ability to rescue real locomotives that were scrapped!

 

I know of two ex-Cornwall Minerals Sharp Stewarts and a Crewe Type that are grateful for the existence of the WNR!

 

The Norfolk equivalent of the Battersea Dogs Home...

 

 

[Annie]

13 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

You cannot argue with a Terrier on a freelance line; there were so many scrapped by the Brighton that your might-have-been railway might have saved one ...

Yes exactly James.  The Affiliated (Imaginary) Railway Companies own four of them which must've been a major rescue coup that has somehow been overlooked by the writers of railway history.  'Hopewood', 'Windweather', 'Barrow Hills' and 'Moxbury' are their names with 'Hopewood' and 'Windweather' staying close to those parts of the tramways that don't require full roadside running kit.  'Moxbury' is shedded at Moxbury and does general shunting and short trip working and 'Barrow Hills' is nominally shedded at the small sub shed at Barrow Hills, but gets borrowed quite a bit by the Eastlingwold & Great Mulling.

 

29 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

Indeed, one of the joys of freelance is the ability to rescue real locomotives that were scrapped!

I would seriously like to have a couple of rescued rebuilt Crewe types for the Eastlingwold & Great Mulling as they would suit that line perfectly, but I will have to set my mind to saving up my pocket money so I can commision one if I want to realise that dream.

 

39 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

I know of two ex-Cornwall Minerals Sharp Stewarts and a Crewe Type that are grateful for the existence of the WNR!

And they are completely plausible choices for a minor Norfolk railway to have purchased on the second and market.  No suspension of disbelief required at all.

[Annie]

Latest flight of fancy on the PO wagon front.  The 'Lawes Chemical Manure Company' did exist, - though possibly not at Fen Ditton, - and it was a child of the mid-19th century coprolite mining boom, so I'm taking liberties with history with this PO wagon.  I've also managed to fit a better kit of underframe components to this older open wagon mesh so I could make it have single sided brakes for a change.

 

[Edwardian]

40 minutes ago, Annie said:

Latest flight of fancy on the PO wagon front.  The 'Lawes Chemical Manure Company' did exist, - though possibly not at Fen Ditton,

 

So it did

 

We even have a picture

 

 

 

40 minutes ago, Annie said:

 

- and it was a child of the mid-19th century coprolite mining boom, so I'm taking liberties with history with this PO wagon.  I've also managed to fit a better kit of underframe components to this older open wagon mesh so I could make it have single sided brakes for a change.

 

 

Lovely, and that should please Kevin with his penchant for scatalogical industries. You tempt me to attempt 'tribute wagons' in due course; that Lawes livery would look lovely on a 4mm wagon, and the WNR built essentially similar 4-planks with inside diagonal strapping; they could almost be on hire! 

 

In the Castle Acting district I recall that the coprolite beds were worked out by the 1890s, or, at least, surpassed by imported guano (the Norfolk Fish Oil & Guano Co. having cunningly obtained the Heligoland guano concession prior to HMG giving up the island in 1895, a deal that the Imperial German government was obliged to honour (well, at least until 1914!)). 

 

If I remember, I want to include on the model some abandoned relics of an old horse-drawn tub line in the vicinity of CA relating to the defunct coprolite workings.

 

Nowadays (1905), the Norfolk Fish Oil & Guano Co supplies another one of Kevin's welcome additions to WN lore, the West Norfolk Soil Amendment Co, which has set up Model Farms busy reclaiming the infertile region of Birchoverham Heath. 

 

1 hour ago, Annie said:

Yes exactly James.  The Affiliated (Imaginary) Railway Companies own four of them which must've been a major rescue coup that has somehow been overlooked by the writers of railway history.  'Hopewood', 'Windweather', 'Barrow Hills' and 'Moxbury' are their names with 'Hopewood' and 'Windweather' staying close to those parts of the tramways that don't require full roadside running kit.  'Moxbury' is shedded at Moxbury and does general shunting and short trip working and 'Barrow Hills' is nominally shedded at the small sub shed at Barrow Hills, but gets borrowed quite a bit by the Eastlingwold & Great Mulling.

 

Yes, plenty of available Terriers for you to do this. Lines often had more than one, at least 2, so 4, perhaps acquired a pair at a time after a short interval, from two successive years of Brighton disposals?

 

Quote

I would seriously like to have a couple of rescued rebuilt Crewe types for the Eastlingwold & Great Mulling as they would suit that line perfectly, but I will have to set my mind to saving up my pocket money so I can commision one if I want to realise that dream.

 

And they are completely plausible choices for a minor Norfolk railway to have purchased on the second and market.  No suspension of disbelief required at all.

 

Yes, the WNR acquired 2 ex-CMR Sharp 0-6-0Ts from the MGN, both having been retro-fitted with tenders and one rebuilt at Melton Constable as a 2-4-0.  At present they both exist as 'a kit of parts' or 'scratch-aid' components. 

 

 

 

Also available, direct from the LNWR or, again, via the MGN, at last something worthwhile to do with the Oxford Rail "Deans [sic] Goods":

 

 

 

Edited July 1, 2021 by Edwardian

[Annie]

14 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

Lovely, and that should please Kevin with his penchant for scatalogical industries. You tempt me to attempt 'tribute wagons' in due course; that Lawes livery would look lovely on a 4mm wagon, and the WNR built essentially similar 4-planks with inside diagonal strapping; they could almost be on hire! 

 

In the Castle Acting district I recall that the coprolite beds were worked out by the 1890s, or, at least, surpassed by imported guano (the Norfolk Fish Oil & Guano Co. having cunningly obtained the Heligoland guano concession prior to HMG giving up the island in 1895, a deal that the Imperial German government was obliged to honour (well, at least until 1914!)). 

 

If I remember, I want to include on the model some abandoned relics of an old horse-drawn tub line in the vicinity of CA relating to the defunct coprolite workings.

 

Nowadays (1905), the Norfolk Fish Oil & Guano Co supplies another one of Kevin's welcome additions to WN lore, the West Norfolk Soil Amendment Co, which has set up Model Farms busy reclaiming the infertile region of Birchoverham Heath. 

 

You are more than welcome to make use of any of my PO wagon liveries James.

I believe the Cambridgeshire coprolite boom had tapered off in the 1890s due to cheaper fertiliser imports from America making coprolite mining no longer an economic proposition.  From what I've read though the beds weren't worked out as mining was revived again during WW1.  Plainly in my little world coprolite mining continued somewhat longer than it did in the Real World (TM).

I do like your idea of modelling the abandoned remnants of the old coprolite workings near to CA.

 

29 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

Yes, plenty of available Terriers for you to do this. Lines often had more than one, at least 2, so 4, perhaps acquired a pair at a time after a short interval, from two successive years of Brighton disposals?

I did think that four was the point at which I should call a halt since after that it would start to get ridiculous.  Two for the tramways was sensible since the long timber viaduct over the salt marsh creates a definite barrier for heavier engines and with the other two being largely involved in shunting and trip working that took care of the lack of useful 0-6-0 tank engines I had on the layout.  If Ed Heaps should ever make an E22 though the Terriers might have to watch out.

 

42 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

Yes, the WNR acquired 2 ex-CMR Sharp 0-6-0Ts from the MGN, both having been retro-fitted with tenders and one rebuilt at Melton Constable as a 2-4-0.  At present they both exist as 'a kit of parts' or 'scratch-aid' components. 

I'll be very interested in seeing what you do with your 'kit of parts'.

 

44 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

Also available, direct from the LNWR or, again, via the MGN, at last something worthwhile to do with the Oxford Rail "Deans [sic] Goods":

This is very much the sort of Crewe type that I'd like to have.  The Eastlingwold & Great Mulling isn't short of tender engines, but tank engines have always been lacking.

 

[Annie]

Morning cheer up picture.  'Windweather' at Nelson's Crossing halt.  I really would like to live in this little world I've created.

 

[Caley Jim]

14 minutes ago, Annie said:

 I really would like to live in this little world I've created.

Mmmm, too flat for my liking.  My wife doesn't fancy visiting Norfolk.  Says she'd have to go out and dig a hill!

 

Jim

[Annie]

Where I live in the Waikato Jim it's an ancient river flood plain for miles and miles, - so an almost Norfolk.  But we do have the massive solidarity of the Coromandel Ranges behind us, - which isn't exactly very Norfolk like.  Possibly I have an idealised Norfolk inside my head, but that's Ok since it's not exactly a bad kind of fantasy to have.

[Regularity]

15 hours ago, Caley Jim said:

Mmmm, too flat for my liking.  My wife doesn't fancy visiting Norfolk.  Says she'd have to go out and dig a hill!

She needs to visit whatever version of Norfolk the semi-fictional “The Last Kingdom” was set in, at least according to the tv series. (Which was actually filmed in Hungary.)

Or try walking for a couple of days from Castle Rising to Wells, via Docking….

[Edwardian]

There are reasons why I model Norfolk, apart from happenstance, such as its rather wonderful mix of fertile rolling countryside and charming vernacular architecture. Coming out of the Fens of North Cambridgeshire, the presence of contours was immediately noticeable and much appreciated. 

 

I blame Noel Coward ("Very flat, Norfolk"), whose summation might apply to the Broads (I cannot really say, as I last went there aged about six), but not the Norfolk I've been fortunate enough to visit. 

 

So I gratefully adopt Sir John Betjeman's assessment:

 

"I am still reeling with delight at the soaring majesty of Norfolk."

 

 

[Annie]

5 hours ago, Edwardian said:

So I gratefully adopt Sir John Betjeman's assessment:

 

"I am still reeling with delight at the soaring majesty of Norfolk."

 

Love it 

 

A forum member over on Narrow Gauge Railway Modelling who lives in Norfolk explained to me the geology of Norfolk and why it is so and why it isn't dead flat all over like everybody thinks.  Being somewhat technical I can't remember most of what he said, but I did take on board that while the fenland is flat and sometimes disturbingly lower than sea level further inland there are a series of geological shelves that gradually raise the height of the landscape.  When he saw my modelled landscape around the Tenpenny branch I got a gold star for getting it right which is amazing really since I was fumbling about with it a bit when I did it all.

[Annie]

GER TPO with single traductor and stowage van.  A TPO with two traductors in presently being worked on by Rob Dee.