Annie's Virtual Pre-Grouping, Grouping and BR Layouts & Workbench

[Annie]

Stogumber!  And no that's not a strange antipodean swear word.  Stogumber station and yard is getting a lot closer to being completed now.  I have two things to say about mixed gauge track, 1. - it looks lovely when it's all completed, and 2. - Aaaaaaarrrrrgggghhh! 

There's only three points at Stogumber and each one must've taken me a good half hour or more to set in place and get them properly adjusted.  The guide template part of the mixed gauge point kit still refuses to work which makes it more difficult to adjust everything properly.  (Ah- sigh, - and here's me so looking forward to doing Taunton with mixed gauge track - NOT! )

Don't tell anybody, but those two cattle wagons are 1860s LNWR.  And that white painted yard gate is actually a GER  design and was a part of the original TS2004 layout, - I'm not sure whether I should leave it there or remove it.

 

 

Yay! -whistles, - cheers!  The first Broad Gauge train steams into Stogumber station.  No real problems with this first test run, - with just a minor signal adjustment to do on the approach to Stogumber.  The worst bit with replacing the track is making sure that all the hidden bits and bobs attached to it that make things work go back in the right places. 

Stogumber is one of my favourite stations on the line, - more than likely because I had to completely rebuild the station yard and its surroundings since it was total mess as it was originally.  By the time I'd done all the necessary research for the rebuilt this quirky little station was well soaked in under my skin.

 

 

A couple of general views of the station and yard.  When I find a slightly larger building mesh I'm planning on transferring the small sandstone station building's textures over to it.  The present building is using a mesh from a Cornwall Railway platform shelter and it's just a bit too narrow and needs to be wider.

 

 

[MartinRS]

On 08/06/2021 at 14:23, Annie said:

Brilliant!  Yes I agree we can't leave that classic model brickyard out.  Thanks for posting these pictures James.  

In my early twenties I found a quantity of that old Merco brickpaper for sale and I just about wept when I finally used the last of it and I couldn't find anymore.

Re Merco brick paper - have a look at this topic

Best wishes

MartinRS

 

[Annie]

Thank you very much Martin, I would have missed that topic if you hadn't pointed it out.

[Annie]

A view of Stogumber station with some of the 'visible only in the surveyor/editor window' magic thingummies on show.  At this stage I hadn't placed the signal link magic thingummy boxes yet.

All I can say is that anybody who is into virtual railway modelling would have to be really dedicated to want to do a mixed gauge layout.  The Minehead branch in the 1880s-1890s only had the simplest of station yards, but despite that I'm having to do an awful lot more work than if I was only doing a Broad Gauge layout.

 

[Annie]

This is fascinating stuff.  I set my 19th century engines up to have weedy more realistic brakes as well and often it's the tender brakes that are doing most of the work.

 

Quote

GWR express brake practice about 1851 using Lord of the Isles tender for example. Wooden Brake shoes on one side of the tender. The GWR Rulebook at the time allowed up to 7 carriages, roughly 10 tons each fully loaded with only tender brakes. Kent's Mechanical Handbook for Engineers says100cwt per ton will slow a train 1 mph per second. So you could have a 120 ton train running 55 mph with roughly 60 cwt retarding force or .5 mph per second. By the numbers 110 seconds and 4500 feet to stop on dry level track. Up hill would help and wet or greasy track down hill would make things much worse. I have Train Simulator set up so I get this sort of breaking and The engine mimics a Gooch 8 footer. It turns a rather simple driving game into a hard game especially running a stopper to schedule.

(Jake Middlebrook: 19th Century Railway Enthusiasts Group)

 

(Tender brakes, Broad Gauge Lord of the Isles tender.)

[Annie]

Possibly the morning, - but it could also be the afternoon; - A Crampton cheer up picture.

 

No this isn't an historic photograph, but a photo of a German built replica of an 1840s Crampton locomotive.  Having just woken up after being asleep for who knows how long it was really lovely to find this photo while I was doing a spot of research.  With so many of our fellow humans engaged in active stupidity in our world at the moment it was very nice to see the result of a group of us getting together to do something sensible.

I like Cramptons, - perhaps not quite as much as I like the Broad Gauge, - but still quite a lot.

 

(DB West Germany Railways Steam Locomotive Class Crampton 4-2-0 Die Pfalz at Bw. Nurnberg in 1963. Photo by Peter Gray)

Edited September 4, 2021 by Annie
More information

[Hroth]

16 hours ago, Annie said:

I have two things to say about mixed gauge track, 1. - it looks lovely when it's all completed, and 2. - Aaaaaaarrrrrgggghhh! 

Surely you mean " and 2. - Stogumber!"

I think you need to adopt it as an expression of exasperation!

 

From all the work you've had to do to model this simplest of mixed gauge stations, in a way you can understand that the GWR would be thinking, "this is too much trouble, we'd better convert to standard gauge as quickly as possible!"  But it looks wonderful.

 

38 minutes ago, Annie said:

This is fascinating stuff.  I set my 19th century engines up to have weedy more realistic brakes as well and often it's the tender brakes that are doing most of the work.

 

 

(Tender brakes, Broad Gauge Lord of the Isles tender.)

 

A guideline for footplatemen.  Brake tenderly... 

 

And remember to whistle the guard for brakes and allow them to act before screwing your own down, to keep the couplings in tension. Failure to take this precaution resulted in a derailment on the GWR at Shipton-on-Cherwell in 1874 turning into a major disaster.  This was on the narrow gauge...

 

See "Red for Danger", chapter "Blowups and Breakdowns"

 

 

 

Edited September 4, 2021 by Hroth
Extra, Extra! Read all abaht it!

[Hroth]

5 minutes ago, Annie said:

Possibly the morning, - but it could also be the afternoon; - A Crampton cheer up picture.

 

No this isn't an historic photograph, but a photo of a German built replica of an 1840s Crampton locomotive.  Having just woken up after being asleep for who knows how long it was really lovely to find this photo while I was doing a spot of research.  With so many of our fellow humans engaged in active stupidity in our world at the moment it was very nice to see the result of a group of us getting together to do something sensible.

I like Cramptons, - perhaps not quite as much as I like the Broad Gauge, - but still quite a lot.

 

 

With that diameter wheel, the axle would probably fit under the boiler so it may well have been a 2-2-2, given the height of the chimney there shouldn't be any clearance problems!   A proper Crampton with a BIG wheel, well that would be a different kettle of steam entirely... 

 

[Annie]

9 minutes ago, Hroth said:

Surely you mean " and 2. - Stogumber!"

I think you need to adopt it as an expression of exasperation!

Tempting, - very tempting Hroth.

 

10 minutes ago, Hroth said:

From all the work you've had to do to model this simplest of mixed gauge stations, in a way you can understand that the GWR would be thinking, "this is too much trouble, we'd better convert to standard gauge as quickly as possible!"  But it looks wonderful.

Laying mixed gauge track back in the day must've involved a lot of work, but at least the PWD chaps back then didn't have to contend with a mass of underlying magical incantations (computer script coding) in order to get everything to work properly.  The Trainz simulator was never really designed for mixed gauge track so there's a lot of fudging involved.  It's the fact that it all looks so darn wonderful when it's done that keeps me working at it despite the frustrations.

 

18 minutes ago, Hroth said:

A guideline for footplatemen.  Brake tenderly... 

 

(and remember to whistle the guard for brakes before screwing your own down, to keep the couplings in tension...)

Oh yes very much so.  Accident reports of the time are full of examples of what happens when coupling chains snap.

I have braking engine spec scripts attached to my brake vans as well, - I forgot to mention that, - but they're still fairly weedy.

 

17 minutes ago, Hroth said:

With that diameter wheel, the axle would probably fit under the boiler so it may well have been a 2-2-2, given the height of the chimney there shouldn't be any clearance problems!   A proper Crampton with a BIG wheel, well that would be a different kettle of steam entirely... 

Compared with some that Crampton it is only a baby, - most probably about the same size as my small Manning Wardle built Crampton.  And that chimney might sorely test some loading gauges, - but it still looks magnificent.

[Annie]

3 hours ago, Hroth said:

And remember to whistle the guard for brakes and allow them to act before screwing your own down, to keep the couplings in tension. Failure to take this precaution resulted in a derailment on the GWR at Shipton-on-Cherwell in 1874 turning into a major disaster.  This was on the narrow gauge...

 

See "Red for Danger", chapter "Blowups and Breakdowns"

 

Thanks for the link to the Wiki article and the additional information.

 

EDIT:  'Red for Danger'  is available for Kindle.

Edited September 4, 2021 by Annie
More information

[Hroth]

1 hour ago, Annie said:

EDIT:  'Red for Danger'  is available for Kindle.

 

I've got 4 copies, with various extensions of timeline covered.  My oldest is the 1955 edition, in a rather ratty state obtained when my school library was replacing it (schools had proper libraries back then...), the rest are paperbacks.  I always seem to have a copy fairly close to hand....

 

The competing railway accident book by OS Nock (Historic Railway Disasters) is equally interesting, and does have an eyewitness account by Nock himself of the high speed derailment at Didcot in September 1967 (MoT Report)

 

 

£6 for a kindle edition?  

[MikeOxon]

4 hours ago, Annie said:

This is fascinating stuff.  I set my 19th century engines up to have weedy more realistic brakes as well and often it's the tender brakes that are doing most of the work.

 

Putting the engine into reverse seemed to have  been a standard method of slowing down in the early days.  I'm not sure whether spinning the wheels backwards would have much effect, since sliding friction is relatively weak - hence the development of anti-lock brakes in recent times.

[Annie]

14 minutes ago, Hroth said:

£6 for a kindle edition?  

A bit more than that in New Zealand Kopecks, but still way cheaper than having a second hand copy posted out to me from the Uk.

Unless it's a book where the need for good clear photos, maps and diagrams are necessary I always have a look to see if a book is available on Kindle before trying to buy a printed/published copy.

 

11 minutes ago, MikeOxon said:

Putting the engine into reverse seemed to have  been a standard method of slowing down in the early days.

Most railways seem to have frowned on this practice as it could lead to the motion getting either bent or broken.

[MikeOxon]

4 hours ago, Hroth said:

................ Failure to take this precaution resulted in a derailment on the GWR at Shipton-on-Cherwell in 1874 turning into a major disaster.  This was on the narrow gauge...

 

See "Red for Danger", chapter "Blowups and Breakdowns"

For a detailed account of the Shipston on Cherwell disaster see: "Wheels to Disaster! - The Oxford Train Wreck of Christmas Eve 1874" by Peter R Lewis and Alistair Nisbet, Tempus Publishing 2008, ISBN 978 0 7524 4512 0

[Compound2632]

3 minutes ago, MikeOxon said:

For a detailed account of the Shipston on Cherwell disaster see: "Wheels to Disaster! - The Oxford Train Wreck of Christmas Eve 1874" by Peter R Lewis and Alistair Nisbet, Tempus Publishing 2008, ISBN 978 0 7524 4512 0

 

Or direct from the horse's mouth, Col. Yolland's report.

[Annie]

On a different note a discussion on the NGRM forum about crossing gates led to this gem of information I knew nothing about.  Despite belonging to the GER Society I knew not a thing about this.  Possibly a little job for me to do in between returning the Minehead branch to the true faith.

 

 

http://www.railsigns.uk/sect16page1/sect16page1.html

[AdamsRadial]

5 hours ago, MikeOxon said:

Putting the engine into reverse seemed to have  been a standard method of slowing down in the early days.  I'm not sure whether spinning the wheels backwards would have much effect

I don't think they would have achieved that much effect, the idea was to use the expansive effect of steam to resist the motion of the piston instead of assist it. 

 

Going back to the Shipton on Cherwell disaster, the book "Wheels to Disaster" which whilst primarily about this accident also relates some of the french disasters of similar natures and touches on the subsequent reluctance to run certain types of tender engines tender-first.

Edited September 4, 2021 by AdamsRadial

[Northroader]

One thing about GWR branch line level crossing signalling, if the gates were inside station limits, they were controlled by the signal box and protected by the station signals, locking Into them. If they were out in the country, they had a ground frame which locked Into the lever frame, which just controlled distant signals. These were standard GWR jobs, not a variant like the GER ones. The gates themselves carried a red disc and lamp facing oncoming trains which was a stop signal in itself, about the last application of the old disc and crossbar thinking. The ground frame had block signal repeaters for the section it was in, so the gateman had warning when a train was due. Station gates didn’t have a red disc. Red discs on the roadside didn’t become widespread until motorcars and their problems emerged. Still, I can’t think of any gates not close to a station on the Minehead line.

[Annie]

1 hour ago, Northroader said:

These were standard GWR jobs, not a variant like the GER ones.

I was thinking of making up some crossing signals for my Norfolk layout Mr Northroader as there's a couple of sites where they'd be just perfect.

 

2 hours ago, Northroader said:

The gates themselves carried a red disc and lamp facing oncoming trains which was a stop signal in itself, about the last application of the old disc and crossbar thinking. The ground frame had block signal repeaters for the section it was in, so the gateman had warning when a train was due. Station gates didn’t have a red disc. Red discs on the roadside didn’t become widespread until motorcars and their problems emerged. Still, I can’t think of any gates not close to a station on the Minehead line.

Excellent information and a good reminder, - thank you.  Between Stogumber and Crowcombe Heathfield there's three crossings out in the rural countryside; - Heathfield Farm Crossing,  Roebuck Crossing and Leigh Farm Crossing.  Everywhere else it's either bridges or the crossings are close to a station as you say.

I've used a non-red disc pair of plain white non animated crossing gates at all of these crossings.  As it happens animated crossings for Trainz won't work with mixed gauge track anyway so it's just as well it's all horse and cart traffic during the era when keeping gates closed to road traffic was the default situation.

 

 

[AdamsRadial]

2 hours ago, Northroader said:

Still, I can’t think of any gates not close to a station on the Minehead line.

There is an occupation crossing between Watchet and Washford that has both gates and  a cattle-creep through a substantial culvert beside it. I think it is where the Kentsford? crossing was on the WSMR which is immediately adjacent to the Minehead line and was the scene of the fatal head-on between the two Nielson box tanks. However, I don't know if occupation crossings fell into the same category as highways (or even if the gated crossing was there from the outset or added after BR closed the branch).

[Annie]

There's so much on the original TS2004 layout that has been simply left off, - such as the entire WSMR, - as well as other areas that I find difficult to match up to anything on the OS maps that I may have to simply accept that this is going to be an 'almost the Minehead branch'  layout.  Or else I may simply have to look on the layout as being an on-going long term work in progress that gets added to as I find further information.  I don't think that I'm ever going to be able to add in the WSMR though since that would involve a truly massive reworking of Watchet and its surrounding landscape.

 

In the meantime though I've got the very long stretch of trackwork between Stogumber and Williton to replace along with three bridges.  As for Williton itself I did repair the track layout in the station yard sometime ago, but most of the buildings are placeholders until I can find out more information about the station.  I did recently find a 1905 photo of part of the station showing the original wooden platform and the timber platform shelter which will be a big help when i come to rebuild the station.

[AdamsRadial]

1 minute ago, Annie said:

I don't think that I'm ever going to be able to add in the WSMR though since that would involve a truly massive reworking of Watchet and its surrounding landscape.

And also the removal of your beloved baulk road, since I believe the Minehead extension from Watchet was standard gauge. Certainly the platform spacings at Blue Anchor aren't BG, whereas Watchet's platform and good shed is definitely BG.

 

You could always just do the track of the WSMR alongside the GWR line as a semi-derelict track, and you could even replicate the Angus train control trials on it if you wanted.

[Annie]

What needs to be kept in mind though with Blue Anchor is that the station only had a single platform in the 1880s.  The information I have on Minehead notes that the 8¾ miles to Minehead were completed on 16th July, 1874 and it was single track laid to the Broad Gauge.  Photos of the goods shed at Minehead clearly show that the rail entrances are Broad Gauge width.

Fun fact, - the bay platform at Minehead retained its disc and crossbar starter signal well after the baulk track was replaced by cross sleepered track and semaphore signals were installed elsewhere on the branch.

 

The photo quality is fairly awful, but the disc and crossbar signal can be clearly seen.

[Annie]

Today's cheer up picture: - Williton station 1900. A really valuable picture for me since it gives me a good snapshot of the station as it was during the late 1890s.  I also have an 1877 photo of the station so I know that very little if anything at all was changed during this time apart from the change of gauge.  During the early grouping period the footbridge was changed for a lattice type and a GWR group standard water tower was built near to the signal box on the other side of the level crossing.  Making an adequate representation of the station will be difficult enough without putting in things that shouldn't be there.

 

[Hroth]

Its so tidy!

 

None of the drifts of rubbish up against the platforms or between the tracks.  Or any weeds!

 

I think the mark crossing the top-right corner is a crease in the photo as there is  a smaller crease in the bottom right corner.  The photo was probably in an album with photo corners holding it in place and damaged by careless removal for copying.