Annie's Virtual Pre-Grouping, Grouping and BR Layouts & Workbench

[Annie]

Crossing the salt marsh late afternoon about 4.00pm.

 

 

I've spent the past two days doing something a bit on the audaous and intrepid side.  Becoming increasingly uphappy with running train services on my GCR-GER-M&GNJR layout due to all the compromises and not very good work arounds I had to make to actually run trains at all, I decided to start again and try to do it properly this time.

 

The plan of attack:

 

Firstly the M&GNJR line is now working very well and is looking sceniclly reasonable, but it's in the wrong place which is a legacy of the original base layout I started with.  My solution was to remove the M&GNJR line as one whole piece and set it up as a stand alone layout (Still WIP).

 

Leading on from extracting M&GNJR line I now had the GER Hunstanton line as a complete independent piece.  And I have to say that now it's shorn of all the hills blocking the sight lines to the (incorrectly placed) M&GNJR line it looks a whole lot more like a Norfolk coastal line.

 

The next bit was lifting out my original GER-Hopewood Tramway-Windweather Tramway layout from the mess and chopping all the silly compromise by-pass lines and junctions off it.

 

(Draws in a good breath and has a nice sustaining cuppa in the aftermath.)

 

Some of you may remember that when I first connected the M&GNJR-GER Hunstanton layout onto my GER-Hopewood & Windweather Tramways layout I did it so that my little empire was on the northern side of Hunstanton.  Then I got myself all upset about silly things like geography and shifted things so it was on the southern side of Hunstanton instead.  This was a mistake!

Nothing really worked properly and bodge was heaped on bodge in order to try to make it work and everything I did seemed to end up with more by-pass lines and strangely sited junctions.  It was the great tunnel under Hunstanton that's not really there that finally made me see just how stupid it all had become.

 

So now my little what-if GER empire is north of Hunstanton and it's not in or near the Wash.  (Please remain calm; The loud sounds you are hearing and the severe earth tremors you are experiencing are due to the geological processes involved as Norfolk rearranges itself.)

Thought about drawing a map, but then I decided I can't be bothered.  In my little virtual world this is just how it is and the Wash got lost in the wash and wasn't called the Wash anymore because it's not there.  History got all bent around and King John didn't lose his valuables coz there was a secure crossing where the tide had to be good and behave itself.  There's no Kings Lynn, - on my layout it's called Kings Oak.  Which will have moderate fame in later years when Dr Beeching is shot dead there by unknown persons armed with longbows.  Not long after that it was discovered that diesel fuel didn't work anymore.  Some people said it was aliens, others said it was the Wiccans wot done it, but despite the efforts of the best minds in the country and the drinking of much tea and smoking of pipes while pacing back and forth and writing many strange calculations on blackboards nobody could find out why this was so.

 

But back to the layout!  Essentially after much playing trains rigorous testing I can say it all works.  It's now a much smaller layout overall, but in terms of operation it's bigger if you take my meaning.  There's still all kinds of odd tidying up jobs to be done since extracting sections of virtual layouts always causes messy edges with bits missing, but that's Ok.  I can fix all that since it's mostly scenic stuff. 

I have to confess that I'd lost heart a bit with this layout and was on the brink of archiving it and forgetting it so I'm very much relieved that all my intrepid re-arranging and rebuilding worked out and now I have my little GER what-if empire back again.

 

Some quick snaps taken along the GER line to Hunstanton.   The most noticeable things in these pictures is the view blocking hills that were there before are gone.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 22, 2019 by Annie
Alarmingly bad spelling

[Northroader]

Annie, what you described made perfect sense, well, most of it did, it’s marvellous the way you’re able to do a complete rebuild so neatly in the virtual world, I’m thinking in terms of the hacking about miles of real baseboards, then there’s things like not having scales as such. More pictures, whenever, please.

[Annie]

Thanks Northroader.  It was a bit nerve racking though because if I'd mistakenly removed a board section that I didn't want removed I would have had to start all over again since there's no 'Un-do' button for that kind of operation.

 

Sorry about not completely making any sense on occasion in my posting.  Sometimes my imagination goes and runs away with itself and gets all kinds of strange ideas.

[RedGemAlchemist]

1 minute ago, Annie said:

Sorry about not completely making any sense on occasion in my posting.  Sometimes my imagination goes and runs away with itself and gets all kinds of strange ideas.

No worries. It can be genuinely quite entertaining.

[Annie]

The most important achievement from all that shifting things about is that now it's possible drive a train from one end of the layout to the other over the secondary mainlines without recourse to silly dodges or bodges.  

There are of course branchlines, but they now all make their junctions properly and in useful and believable ways.

My original little GER empire always had a double track section that was a GCR-GER joint line even if me trying to explain how the GCR got into Norfolk was always going to be an unlikely tale.  BUT that's because I've got so much in the way of GCR rolling stock and engines it's not funny so the GCR has stayed on.  How I have things now the GER line from Hunstanton finishes in a pair of portals that represent Kings Oak/Kings Lynn and the GCR-GER joint line makes a junction with the line to Hunstanton before it heads off in the direction of the magic portals.  The GCR-GER joint line disappears off into the depths of my original layout just like it's always done and ends up at its own set of portals about 15 miles further on down the line.

The mysterious little GER portal branchline to Moxbury  which used to disappear into a stand of trees has now been tidied up and double tracked and made into a proper bit of railway and also makes its own junction with the GER Hunstanton line.

Otherwise everything is much the same apart from scenic tidying and such which is still on-going here and there.

 

The Eastlingwold & Great Mulling branchline.  The portal entries are behind the camera.

With cutting off all the unwanted bits this area got a bit ravaged so it's being given a scenery overhaul at the moment.  Still WIP, but getting there.  I would like to represent a part of the E&Gt.MR line eventually.

Edited April 22, 2019 by Annie
can't spell for toffee

[Northroader]

3 hours ago, Annie said:

Sorry about not completely making any sense on occasion in my posting.  Sometimes my imagination goes and runs away with itself and gets all kinds of strange ideas.

No, it’s just I got lost in the Wash along with King Johns Crown Jewels, then the sea rose up and covered Pharoahs  army, and I ended up in one of those portals.

[Annie]

I was very doubtful about portals  in Trainz for a long time since as far as I could see once a train went into them you never got it back.  Gradually though I learned how to use them properly and they are quite useful things.  I use them in two ways on the layout.  Firstly to send a train to a destination 'off-stage' and then after a set amount of time has past have it return.  The useful thing with this is that I can set the portal to send back a train of empty wagons in a  now loaded condition or vice-versa.

The second thing I use portals for is to create a number of set piece trains that can be given a basic set of instructions as to destination and where to make station stops.  I've used this to great effect on the GCR-GER joint line so that every 40 minutes or so a train will travel the line rather than have it looking like an abandoned railway while I'm running trains on the tramways instead.  I also use it to run passenger trains between the Kings Oak portal and the Wells portal.  This is very effective as even if I'm some distance away the sound of the engine whistles can be heard and the smoke plume from the passing train can be seen above the hedgerows.

 

[Annie]

I wonder if the W.N.R. would have owned a 'Sharpie' 0-6-2T?  More re-skin messings about with the old 'Sharpie' models that I own.

 

 

The 'Sharpie' uses simple texture patches so I can't alter the lining style unfortunately.  The number plate is a fixed part of the body mesh with its own tricky to mod texture patch so that has to stay as well.

Despite their age and basic detailing I like these old digital models and after some updating of their engine specs and config file they run very sweetly too.

[Edwardian]

1 hour ago, Annie said:

I wonder if the W.N.R. would have owned a 'Sharpie' 0-6-2T?  More re-skin messings about with the old 'Sharpie' models that I own.

 

 

The 'Sharpie' uses simple texture patches so I can't alter the lining style unfortunately.  The number plate is a fixed part of the body mesh with its own tricky to mod texture patch so that has to stay as well.

Despite their age and basic detailing I like these old digital models and after some updating of their engine specs and config file they run very sweetly too.

 

Very nice!

 

Somewhere in the multiverse, undoubtedly, 'yes', and maybe on the layout in due course.

 

So far, in my realisation, a 2-4-2T version is planned.

 

 

If you ever feel rash enough to attempt full WNR loco livery, assuming that's even possible, feel free to apply for details!

 

[Annie]

Having recently done lots of messing about with my 'Sharpie' 2-4-2T's to make faux M&GNJR engines of them James I thought the 0-6-2T 'Sharpies' should have their turn.  I chose the 0-6-2T because it's a general purpose type of engine that could be seen on both goods and passenger trains.  I've used this particular model quite a lot on other layouts in this role (while wearing a variety of liveries) and it's done good work.

 

Unfortunately I'd have to go back to Paul of Paulz Trainz and commission him to do a major rebuild and upgrade on these old 2004 'Sharpie' models in order to do any better with the lining and livery than I have.  If money was no object I'd be glad to do it since 'Sharpie' tank engines were purchased by so many of the old railway companies that it's just about possible to justify one anywhere.

It has always surprised me though just how rare Trainz digital models of pre-grouping era engines from the independent makers are.  There are a few industrial type tank engines around, but almost nothing in the way of railway company owned engines.

 

Edit:  That's a very nice drawing of a 2-4-2T 'Sharpie' by the way.  Apart from a few minor details it's exactly the same as was used by several Uk railways.  Plainly Sharp Stewart & Co knew how to make a good design go the full distance.

Edited April 23, 2019 by Annie
more to say

[TurboSnail]

10 hours ago, Edwardian said:

 

Very nice!

 

Somewhere in the multiverse, undoubtedly, 'yes', and maybe on the layout in due course.

 

So far, in my realisation, a 2-4-2T version is planned.

 

 

If you ever feel rash enough to attempt full WNR loco livery, assuming that's even possible, feel free to apply for details!

 

 

How similar were these to some of the L&Y locos? I can't remember if they were designed by Aspinall, or bought in by him. I may have been doing some research of my own on them... The L&Y one looks to me to have a slightly shorter front and bunker.

 

[Edwardian]

21 minutes ago, TurboSnail said:

 

How similar were these to some of the L&Y locos? I can't remember if they were designed by Aspinall, or bought in by him. I may have been doing some research of my own on them... The L&Y one looks to me to have a slightly shorter front and bunker.

 

 

Similar enough for me to have bought a Bachmann one as the basis of the conversion!

 

When people like Sharps and Beyer built locos like this, they varied, as mine are freelance, they will be as correct as they need be! 

 

My thoughts are this (and comments welcome):

 

- Retain tanks and bunker - add Archer's rivets to ape the Rhenish engines

 

- Replace cab.  Both the 2-4-2T and the 0-6-2T have a very characteristically Sharp cut out and are flush with the tank/bunker.  The L&Y cab is narrower.

 

- The Sharps have raised round top fireboxes.  One option is to leave the firebox section of the barrel but to replace the rest of the barrel with a smaller diameter boiler and smoke-box. Alternatively, I can build up the firebox section.  

 

- New chimney

 

- New steps and guard irons

 

- Probably remove coal rails

 

Edited April 23, 2019 by Edwardian

[TurboSnail]

52 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

 

Similar enough for me to have bought a Bachmann one as the basis of the conversion!

 

When people like Sharps and Beyer built locos like this, they varied, as mine are freelance, they will be as correct as they need be! 

 

My thoughts are this (and comments welcome):

 

- Retain tanks and bunker - add Archer's rivets to ape the Rhenish engines

 

- Replace cab.  Both the 2-4-2T and the 0-6-2T have a very characteristically Sharp cut out and are flush with the tank/bunker.  The L&Y cab is narrower.

 

- The Sharps have raised round top fireboxes.  One option is to leave the firebox section of the barrel but to replace the rest of the barrel with a smaller diameter boiler and smoke-box. Alternatively, I can build up the firebox section.  

 

- New chimney

 

- New steps and guard irons

 

- Probably remove coal rails

 

 

As meticulously planned as I've come to expect! I was thinking of pinching the chassis for something else, but I really should let this thread get back to its intended purpose...

[Annie]

A little drifting is fine by me especially since I like 'Sharpies'.  My 2-4-2T and 0-6-2T Sharp Stewart engines are based on the ones purchased by the Barry Railway.  I may have mentioned that before earlier in the thread, but I thought it worthwhile to mention it again.

Edit:  My 'Sharpies' have larger water tank capacity too as compared with the Dutch drawing James posted earlier.   Wikipedia has useful information on the Barry engines, but photos of them in pre-GWR rebuild condition are rare.

Edited April 24, 2019 by Annie
More information

[Edwardian]

4 hours ago, Annie said:

A little drifting is fine by me especially since I like 'Sharpies'.  My 2-4-2T and 0-6-2T Sharp Stewart engines are based on the ones purchased by the Barry Railway.  I may have mentioned that before earlier in the thread, but I thought it worthwhile to mention it again.

Edit:  My 'Sharpies' have larger water tank capacity too as compared with the Dutch drawing James posted earlier.   Wikipedia has useful information on the Barry engines, but photos of them in pre-GWR rebuild condition are rare.

 

Yes, I had been looking at these in the context of the WNR 2-4-2T.

 

[Annie]

That is a very nice model.  Thanks for posting the picture James.

[Annie]

Barrow Hills & Foxhollow Extension Railway No.12.  Fitting it with vacuum brakes was certainly a bit tricky, but we got there.  In light of recent developments I might have to paint my 'what-if' W.N.R. 'Sharpie' blue and transfer its ownership to the BH&FER.

 

[Edwardian]

Yes, sadly, on analysis and consideration, we are not sure that the WNR permanent way of the 1880s was quite up to the 8-wheel sharpie tanks! 

 

 

[Annie]

Oh well it was a bit of fun while it lasted James.  I'll stick with the E.B. Wilson well tanks since they are definitely light enough for the W.N.R.'s 1880's trackwork.

 

The BH&FER 'Sharpies' will be used mostly on their old stamping grounds and over the trackwork of the double tracked main line on my layout so they should be fine there.  And yes I can make use of two of them since I was scratching around looking for a suitable engine to do some trip workings just yesterday.  

[Annie]

Further to the arrival of the BH&FER 'Sharpies' sorting out the engines I run on my sprawling little empire and assigning their tasks has been a bit tricky sometimes since most of the engines that work on the Hopewood and Windweather Tramways are not allowed to stray from their own patch and venture out onto the mainline.  Goods trains leaving the tramways are handed over at Barrow Hills, but sometimes finding something to hand over to has not been easy.  A singleton Y14 can only do so much!

The Hopewood Tramway's 2-4-0T and 2-2-2T tank engines are permitted to rove further afield, but working goods trains or doing trip work is not something they are built for.  They do own a second hand Terrier as well which is allowed to leave home, but it's not really up to any kind of heavy work.

 

The silly thing is the GCR MPD at Elgar Junction is brimful of engines, but of course they're not going to be offering to help out the GER now are they.

[Edwardian]

14 hours ago, Annie said:

Further to the arrival of the BH&FER 'Sharpies' sorting out the engines I run on my sprawling little empire and assigning their tasks has been a bit tricky sometimes since most of the engines that work on the Hopewood and Windweather Tramways are not allowed to stray from their own patch and venture out onto the mainline.  Goods trains leaving the tramways are handed over at Barrow Hills, but sometimes finding something to hand over to has not been easy.  A singleton Y14 can only do so much!

The Hopewood Tramway's 2-4-0T and 2-2-2T tank engines are permitted to rove further afield, but working goods trains or doing trip work is not something they are built for.  They do own a second hand Terrier as well which is allowed to leave home, but it's not really up to any kind of heavy work.

 

The silly thing is the GCR MPD at Elgar Junction is brimful of engines, but of course they're not going to be offering to help out the GER now are they.

 

Do you have a map for the Hopewood and Windweather Tramways?

 

The WNR is intent on (finally) mapping its system!

[Annie]

A map?  No not at this stage of things James, but I don't think it would be too hard to put one together.

 

I've just spent a modelling session doing a huge amount of tidying up.  I had stray engines that aren't in use anymore parked here and there as well as various test versions of rolling stock that had been tested and then forgotten in sidings.   With siding capacity only just being enough for normal operations all these odd things parked about weren't helping any.  And then there was further finishing off and detailing around goods sheds and checking all the speed limit markers to make sure they weren't contradicting one another.

Then there was signalling stuff to check and sort out.  I still have yellow distants in various places that need fixing and that takes time.  It's not hard to do just tedious since there are so many types that need dialing back in time.

 

The two tramways own seven tram engines between them with some having been specially built for certain tasks and I managed to find them all since some were hiding.  All the main line permitted engines are now placed so they can get to do their jobs there and all the antique engines that aren't supposed to leave the tramways and were elsewhere have been brought back home.  With all the major re-working of my layout all these things had been overlooked for some time so no wonder I couldn't find an engine to do a trip working job a day or two ago.

 

Edited April 25, 2019 by Annie
can't count tram engines

[Northroader]

Not wishing to be misunderstood, but can’t you just tuck them down your portals?

[Annie]

Not really Northroader since every engine that's scheduled to work a train through to a portal is an engine that has official status on the layout as being a part of the layout.  The same goes for the rolling stock.  The problem that I was having to clear away was all the things that didn't belong on the layout that somehow ended up being there.

 

Anyway some snaps from tonight's running session.

No.044 taking the morning passenger train through to Hopewood on Sea.  As an experiment I have traffic enabled, but the earliest vehicles available are unfortunately post war, but despite that they look the part.

 

 

Racing the bus.  Not easy when you're a tram engine with a governed down engine spec.

 

 

No.044 working the trains to Hopewood on Sea was a part of the re-organisation of engines on the two tramways.  The G15's used to do it, but they are actually smaller than a G15 should be.  More of a G13¾ really and that was the problem.  They were too short to activate the magic interactive passenger platforms properly so they have all been sent off to the other end of the layout to do goods trip workings between the various industries there.  Engines working between Bluebell Woods and Hopewood on Sea and Hopewood on Sea and Downes Farm Halt have to comply with tramway regulations so now the formerly underutilised No.044 has a proper job of work to do.

I used to use a pair of MSC Hudswell Clarke tank engines to do the goods trip workings, but once officialdom took notice of the fact that they were not complying with tramway regulations they ended up being retired from the layout.  Most of the Hopewood Tramway requires the use of proper tram engines due to its miles of roadside trackwork and also with working trains along the main street of the township at Bluebell Woods.

The Windweather Tramway only has the harbour sidings and their access trackwork to worry about and while it follows some of the roads in its area they don't run right alongside the roads like the Hopewood Tramway does.  They do own a pair of tram engines though for use around the harbour as well as a collection of delightfully antique survivors from the 1860's era.

The GER has loaned the two tramways a Y14 which they have to look after properly because if they break it they won't get another one.

 

Nominally for accounting purposes, the 2-4-0T and 2-2-2T tank engines that run most of the local passenger trains over a motley collection of absorbed railways in the surrounding area, are said to belong to the Hopewood Tramway.  Which is a bit odd since they can't actually legally run on the Hopewood Tramway.  They do good work though and after a lot of fettling and fine tuning they are better at it than anything else available that can run on these lightly laid lines.

 

[Northroader]

That a Barton bus?