Annie's Virtual Pre-Grouping, Grouping and BR Layouts & Workbench

[MikeOxon]

I'm no expect on video either but I usually use MP4 format, which is supposed to be more compact at any particular quality level.

[Annie]

 

[Annie]

Please ignore the red 'bug' in the corner of the video.  Trainz was having a hissy fit over a line in the magic incantations that control the footplate view mode.

Further 'Bogie' class tests.  Out of interest I tried the engine spec file that the E.B. Wilson well tanks use and suddenly 'Sappho' could steam for Britain and thought it was hauling the 'Cornishman'.  Which is absolutely nuts really since that engine spec file is for a much smaller and lighter engine.  I will continue to investigate and experiment.

And Mike I eventually found Windows Movie Maker on the Wayback Machine and downloaded it.  I was able to edit this video clip with ease and then save it in MP4 from the .avi original.  It only took a couple of minutes to upload to YouTube which is definitely a plus and there certainly is no loss in the quality of the video that I can see.

 

The clip was filmed at the Carnon viaduct and it's just been upgraded with the latest Brunel viaduct model Steve Flanders sent to me for testing.

 

[MikeOxon]

6 hours ago, Annie said:

.................................Further 'Bogie' class tests.  Out of interest I tried the engine spec file that the E.B. Wilson well tanks use and suddenly 'Sappho' could steam for Britain and thought it was hauling the 'Cornishman'.  Which is absolutely nuts really since that engine spec file is for a much smaller and lighter engine.  I will continue to investigate and experiment.

And Mike I eventually found Windows Movie Maker on the Wayback Machine and downloaded it.  I was able to edit this video clip with ease and then save it in MP4 from the .avi original.  It only took a couple of minutes to upload to YouTube which is definitely a plus and there certainly is no loss in the quality of the video that I can see.

 

 

Wow!  Great to see Broad Gauge trains running over a Brunel trestle viaduct.  

 

I'm so pleased you are now able to load videos relatively easily and shall look forward to seeing lots more, especially when you have your latest loco designs up and running.

 

You are making me feel like having a go myself.  I'll PM you for some advice on how to get started.

 

Mike

[Annie]

 

'Sappho' still thinks she's the Cornishman. (Running under DCC controls for the video, but still pretty darn perky) 

As a further experiment I tried the Y7 engine spec I successfully used with my Beyer-Peacock singles.  It worked well for them and they were very driveable on the steam engine controls.  The one downside was the brakes which were 100% Y7 and not so good for a Beyer Peacock single, but once they had scripted brakes added to their tenders they were fine.

 

With 'Sappho' though it was a different story.  45mph at 6% cutoff and with the regulator barely cracked open over the gradients of the Falmouth branch was just pure madness.  I really don't understand what is going on with these engines.  Engine specs seem to warp into something else entirely as soon as they are combined with them.

[Malcolm 0-6-0]

Thanks for posting the moving pics. I must admit to having no idea how the virtual railways appears on the screen.  

Edited November 26, 2019 by Malcolm 0-6-0

[Annie]

'Sappho' running under the 'advanced' steam engine control system.  I went back to the engine spec file I'd put together for the 'Bogie' class engines and compared it with some others.  I couldn't see anything wrong at first and then I noticed that the coal burn rate was noticeably lower than on the other engine spec files.  The 'Bogie' class only had a maximum boiler pressure of 60 pounds and while my engine spec file did work it was very lackadaisical about raising steam.  With only 60 pounds max instead of the boiler pressures of a much later era that would have been considered to be insanity in 1850 my 'Bogie' class engines had been very much hobbled by not being able to produce enough steam so I edited in a new coal burn rate value and crossed my fingers.

 

And it worked!    Now I could actually drive 'Sappho' properly and I could hear the difference in her exhaust beat as she dug into climbing the steep gradients on the Falmouth branch.  The descending gradients have to be watched too so she doesn't run away and while it might be a slight cheat 'Sappho' is running brake data for an LMS Fowler 2P, but of course I'm only using the brakes on the engine so it's not that much of a free lunch.

 

'Sappho' at the placeholder station at Penryn having just climbed the steep gradients up from Ponsanooth, - under steam, - not twiddle the knob go away and make a cup of tea DCC.

The Brunel over roof is a test item given to me by Steve Flanders to evaluate and until I get around to properly laying out the 1880s station at Penryn it might as well stay there until then.

[MikeOxon]

It's great to see these Broad Gauge trains striding across the countryside in a way that must have astonished the local people out in the fields.  It does, however, open some more cans of worms.  No longer do we just have to worry what colour those old engines were but what did they really sound like?  With only 60 lb. boiler pressure, I suspect that the exhaust blast sounded much softer than on modern engines.  There is the additional fact that the early engines with gab gear were working in full-gear all the time and this must also have affected the sound.  Single wheelers also slipped very easily and I wonder of this effect can be simulated? 

 

Whenever I have heard early-engine replicas working, I have been impressed by their near-silent operation but, of course, they were only moving at very low speeds.  in addition, I wonder how the carriages sounded, as they rolled along the baulk road.  They do seem rather rigid in the videos and i assume that the models do not include any spring-rate effects.  Finally, those early coke-burners presumably emitted very little in the way of smoke particulates so dark plumes, even when working hard, were probably not so evident.

 

Finally, when driving with 'realistic' controls, can one actually show the view from the footplate?  One of the main pleasures I get from aircraft simulators is from seeing the various controls move and reacting to the readings on the instruments, although I realise there were very few of those on early engines!  Can one keep an eye on the pressure gauge and sight-glass, for example?

 

I am enjoying the videos, which give a much better impression of using the simulator than still images can do.

 

Mike

Edited November 26, 2019 by MikeOxon

[Annie]

Thanks Mike, your comments are appreciated.  My Broad Gauge engines do have a footplate view, but this is still a bit WIP as I try to sort out the best view positioning.  The footplate views aren't interactive unfortunately and while I do have later pre-grouping engines with fully interactive cabs and even though the mesh parts and scripts exist which could be used to build an interactive cab I lack the necessary skills to do it.

 

This is a test run I did when 'Sappho' was still playing at being the 'Cornishman' and was absolutely going for it despite being at 6% cutoff and with the regulator barely open.  The cab interior is from an older model of the LBSC tender engine 'Jenny Lind' and it still remains the best open footplate cab available for Trainz.  Plainly not much use for a 'Bogie' class 4-4-0ST, but I could get away with it with my E.B. Wilson well tanks.  Only problem is don't look over your shoulder because there's no tender behind you.   It has given me some ideas for devising a new cab interior though which I'll have an experiment with.

 

Apparently there are ways to make the carriages move and sway, but I haven't investigated that yet.  It's something I want to try and do if it is possible though.

 

Changing the colour of the smoke is very possible and I'd like to give that a try.  As to the engine sounds I do have quite a few engine sound files so that's something worth experimenting with.

 

Slipping? that's a bit of a tricky one since it all comes down to how the engine spec file is written.  My 1850's standard gauge Beyer Peacock singles will slip If I'm careless with starting them moving and my faux Broad Gauge 'Sharpie' 4-2-4T track testing engine certainly slips if given a heavy load, but I haven't really checked out what 'Iron Duke' and 'Prometheus' are like yet since they didn't work in Cornwall.

 

I must agree though that to mid-19th century eyes these engines must have seemed utterly astonishing.  I find them astonishing and they certainly have got under my skin the point where I'm sorely neglecting my Norfolk GER layout which was my former pride and joy.

[MikeOxon]

'Jenny Lind' is one of my favourite engines and was the brainchild of David Joy, whom I mentioned earlier in the thread   He comes over to me as a man with a good sense of humour, as when he writes "I made a very highly finished drawing 1 in. to 1 ft. of her (the engine, not Jenny)"  He also  mentions in his diary: "May 1848 - went to London to see the lady after whom this locomotive was named.  Heard her in the Opera, Lucia de Lammermoor. Wonderful! lovely!".  He was clearly a cultured man and not the stereotypical 'rough engineman' that some people imagine for that period.

 

You are seriously tempting me into plunging into train simulation but I know that if I do, I shall become totally absorbed (o.k. obsessed) and will want to know how to set all those parameters!  I already seem to have too many things on my 'to do' list, so I think I shall have to hold back for a while and simply enjoy your posts.  My brain is only just beginning to calm down again, after learning all that 3D modelling stuff

 

Mike

[Annie]

Most Trainz folk will tell you that railway sims are highly addictive Mike.  I know this for a fact myself.

The ability to create any landscape in any time period without size constraints can be a very heady thing.

[Annie]

 

Learning to drive 'Sappho' properly.  It suddenly dawned on me that I'd been driving 'Sappho' up until now like she was a much later engine fitted with adjustable valve motion (cutoff).  My 'Bogie' class engines had gab motion, - though I think some of them were fitted with Gooch motion later on.  So I put 'Sappho' in full gear (to represent gab motion)  and tried driving her on the regulator instead.  The difference was immediately noticeable.  For a start the exhaust was a lot more soft and it was a lot easier to control her speed. 

With more modern engines I'd been driving on full regulator and using the cutoff to maintain an equal (or near equal) pressure between the boiler and the steam chest.  'Sappho' hadn't been much impressed by that at all and it was difficult to stop her running away and doing a, - 'Look at me! - I'm the Cooooooornishman....', impression.

After trying all kinds of different footplate/cab interior models I decided to go with the same basic viewpoint invisible camera I use with my assortment of tram engines.  It's a bit of a tedious exercise adjusting it into position, but once it's properly positioned it does exactly what it says on the tin and just works without any fuss.

[Edwardian]

8 hours ago, Annie said:

 

Learning to drive 'Sappho' properly.  It suddenly dawned on me that I'd been driving 'Sappho' up until now like she was a much later engine fitted with adjustable valve motion (cutoff).  My 'Bogie' class engines had gab motion, - though I think some of them were fitted with Gooch motion later on.  So I put 'Sappho' in full gear (to represent gab motion)  and tried driving her on the regulator instead.  The difference was immediately noticeable.  For a start the exhaust was a lot more soft and it was a lot easier to control her speed. 

With more modern engines I'd been driving on full regulator and using the cutoff to maintain an equal (or near equal) pressure between the boiler and the steam chest.  'Sappho' hadn't been much impressed by that at all and it was difficult to stop her running away and doing a, - 'Look at me! - I'm the Cooooooornishman....', impression.

After trying all kinds of different footplate/cab interior models I decided to go with the same basic viewpoint invisible camera I use with my assortment of tram engines.  It's a bit of a tedious exercise adjusting it into position, but once it's properly positioned it does exactly what it says on the tin and just works without any fuss.

 

Great to be taken on a trip along the line.  I swear I can hear the lowing of cattle! 

[MikeOxon]

Thank you for the footplate ride

 

It reminded me of standing on the footplate of 'Fire Fly' at Didcot - it gives a feel for the size of the firebox and height of the chimney - more like a ship's funnel.

 

 

I find it extraordinary to think that those early engines were careering along at perhaps 50 mph (80 kph) with virtually no brakes and little knowledge of what might be ahead, when operating under the time interval system.  The Bullo Pill accident happened because a slow goods train had slipped to a halt on a curve, on a frosty night, and the following express had no chance , even though the time interval had been more than the required 20 minutes at the previous station (Lydney).  It seems odd to me that telegraph wires were clearly present at the accident site but they were not used to manage traffic safely.

[Annie]

1 hour ago, Edwardian said:

 

Great to be taken on a trip along the line.  I swear I can hear the lowing of cattle! 

Thanks very much James.  Further along the line you can hear sheep saying, 'Bah! grass again, bah!'

There a lot of background sound generating thingies all over the layout and they certainly do add to the atmosphere.

The scenic work is pretty much done between Truro and Perranwell, and between Perranwell and Ponsanooth it's about 90% complete.  Between Ponsanooth and Penryn it's patchy with large areas still needing work.  From Penryn onwards it's all a mess still, but I won't be moving on past Penryn until everything between Truro and Penryn is completed to my satisfaction. 

The WCR line to Chacewater has had some scenic work done, but most of it is still fairly awful and I've put it on hold until Steve Flanders lets me know if the latest intrepid effort with getting mixed gauge track to work properly has been successful or not.

[Annie]

3 minutes ago, MikeOxon said:

Thank you for the footplate ride

 

It reminded me of standing on the footplate of 'Fire Fly' at Didcot - it gives a feel for the size of the firebox and height of the chimney - more like a ship's funnel.

 

 

I find it extraordinary to think that those early engines were careering along at perhaps 50 mph (80 kph) with virtually no brakes and little knowledge of what might be ahead, when operating under the time interval system.  The Bullo Pill accident happened because a slow goods train had slipped to a halt on a curve, on a frosty night, and the following express had no chance , even though the time interval had been more than the required 20 minutes at the previous station (Lydney).  It seems odd to me that telegraph wires were clearly present at the accident site but they were not used to manage traffic safely.

Yes it's a very different kind of footplate ride as compared with my other pre-grouping standard gauge engines.  Even my early mid-19th century engines with an open footplate are different to taking a ride on 'Sappho's' footplate.

 

 

While I do have a set of early period signals and railway policeman figures to go with them I made the decision with my layout to take it into a later time period with semaphore signals and block working.  I have a complete set of McKenzie & Holland split post signals so I decided to use them to represent the signals of the 1880s period.  I do have some lovely 1870s junction signals as well which are mostly used around Truro, but unfortunately no more of this kind are available due to a hard drive failure suffered by the person who made them.  It's a pity really since they make a wonderful clack sound when they operate and none of the other signals I own do that.

 

Accidents like the Bullo Pill accident certainly helped to push the creation of better train working systems along, but I do agree that driving an engine in those times with almost non-existent brakes and no real knowledge of the state of the line ahead would not have been for the faint hearted.

[MikeOxon]

Before telling you more about sucking eggs, I thought I should look back through your 105 page thread!  I can't claim to have read it all but there's clearly a tremendous amount of background info. from long before I came on the scene!  I also hadn't properly taken in your statements that you are modelling the 1880s, so several of my comments about much earlier periods were off the mark.  It does seem, however, that some of my comments have been useful and I look forward to watching your Broad Gauge modelling developing further.  Who knows, perhaps you'll be lured back to those earlier times of coke burners, gab gear, and time interval working

 

Re.  Perranwell. I'm not sure over what period it had the unusual signalbox with a siding underneath - a fascinating feature.  Lots of info. at http://www.cornwallrailwaysociety.org.uk/falmouth-branch.html

Edited November 27, 2019 by MikeOxon
added about Perranwell

[Annie]

I'm not really sure when that signal box at Perranwell entered the scene either Mike.  From the OS maps held by the National Library of Scotland I know that it wasn't there in 1878 and it was there in 1906, but that's an awful lot of time in between to make a guess at.

I built the signal box up from several retextured bits and bobs that weren't really supposed to fit together and it does look the part despite being a bit too long.  If it is proved to be outside my time period I won't be heartbroken, but then I'll have to find out where the earlier signal box was sited and what it looked like.

 

The Cornwall Railway Society's webpages are a great resource, but they are a bit too keen on the modern error for my liking.  They did have a couple of pre-WW1 pictures of the station and signal box with cross sleepered track on the running lines and narrowed baulk track still in the goods yard, but as nice as they are they aren't that useful.

 

Are you sure you want to read back through 105 pages of my wild imaginings Mike.  We might have to send out search parties should you get lost.  There's a good deal about the development of my Hopewood Tramway layout into the sprawling little GER & affiliated (imaginary) companies empire that it now is.  There's also a bit about my early BR period layout (ex-LNWR) somewhere on the border with Scotland.  And also lots of snaps of various of my mid-19th century standard gauge models.  All sewn together with much fevered imaginings and 'what-if' alternative realities. 

Edited November 27, 2019 by Annie
can't spell for toffee

[Annie]

Went back to the Hopewood Tramway today and generally did shunting around the small yards at Bluebell Woods and Bluebell Sands as well as seeing the local passenger trains on their way.  It's been too long since I last did this and I had a lot of fun operating my quirky little tramway.

 

Old No.3 is the only non-tramway equipped engine on the line and that's because it works the sand riddle sidings, the fish oil factory siding, and the wharf, -  all of which are away from the roadside and township, - and then taking wagons from these industries through to the small goods yard at Bluebell Wood ready for being taken further afield by the G13¾ tram engines.

Old No.3 might not look like it would be an ideal shunting engine, but it's very capable at the job of shifting loaded sand and gravel wagons and is controllable down to a crawl.  Several times now the Eastlingwold & Great Mulling Rly  have tried to buy Old No.3 from the Hopewood Tramway, but they have always refused. to sell.

 

Waiting for the local passenger train to come through from Mollywood and clear the line.

Once the line is clear No.127 will join No.125 and they'll take the train through to Flinders Mill.  

 

 

And if you've got 5 minutes to spare this is the train they were waiting for to clear the section.  Warning:  Watching tram engines at roadside tramway speeds can be a little like watching paint dry.

 

And underway now.  There's some stiff gradients on the line out to Flinders Mill so double heading is essential.

[Northroader]

That’s the third time I’ve seen a train go through a closed level crossing gate, and the other times there was more firewood lying round after. Apart from that, an enjoyable journey.

[MikeOxon]

21 minutes ago, Northroader said:

That’s the third time I’ve seen a train go through a closed level crossing gate, and the other times there was more firewood lying round after. Apart from that, an enjoyable journey.

For those who can't watch drying paint - go to 4:15 for gate-crashing excitement

 

[Annie]

There are opening gate models available, but they won't fit properly in that location unfortunately.  I could always do what I did at the other end of the line through the town and have the gate off its hinges and leaning against the hedge.

 

[Hroth]

42 minutes ago, Northroader said:

That’s the third time I’ve seen a train go through a closed level crossing gate, and the other times there was more firewood lying round after. Apart from that, an enjoyable journey.

 

15 minutes ago, MikeOxon said:

For those who can't watch drying paint - go to 4:15 for gate-crashing excitement

 

 

I bet Network Rail wish they had such excellent self-healing gates!

[Hroth]

1 minute ago, Annie said:

There are opening gate models available, but they won't fit properly in that location unfortunately.  I could always do what I did at the other end of the line through the town and have the gate off its hinges and leaning against the hedge.

 

 

Don't say that!  Just position a bloke with a red flag in the roadway and claim that they're fixing the gate after the last time.....

[Annie]

And while I was  shunting along the tramway I did some trainspotting.

 

My not quite a MS&LR class 11A takes the express along the GCR-GER Joint line.  I had to cut the video off suddenly because my computer went daft and froze for a few seconds.  Sorry about that.

 

 

And I was a terrible sleepy camera woman with this clip of the express drawing into the station at Brenton Wood.