Rain, Steam and Speed - William's Workbench

[Lacathedrale]

Hi guys, just a quick update:

 

I don't want to do anything else with my little layout plank until I can validate whether the dodgy running is my track or my only running 2FS loco and since Shop3 is closed and I can't get a new chassis/muffs/etc. until mid/late February, I've been painting the LMS 12T Vans that have been sitting unloved in the corner of my stock box since last summer (Pics ASAP). There's going to be alot of curing and drying with the oil wash on those, so I've also opened up a full etch cattle wagon kit by Masterclass / the Association.

In terms of teleological process, I feel like I have four questions that I feel like I need to address:

• Can I build track a) with chairplates? b) with complex track geometry i.e. slip/3-way?
  • Order and build a trap point using laurie adams chairplates. Depending on succcess or failure, build a slip.
  • if that fails, then I know I should stick with flat PCB or Easitrac if I really want the air gap.
• Can I build a sweet running chassis from etched kit?
  • Order new components from Shop3 when it reopens and build another Jinty chassis to consolidate skills.
  • if that fails, then I know I should stick with RTR conversions going forward
• Can I build a loco with a) outside cylinders?
  • Build 45xx Eveleigh chassis kit
  • if that fails, then I know I should stick with inside cylinder designs going forward
• Can I build a loco with outside valve gear?
  • Order and build Nigel Hunt LMS Tank conversion kit
  • if that fails, then I know I should stick with inside valve-gear designs going forward

I reckon with those in the bag one way or another, I should be able to make a proper decision about layout era, theme, location, etc.

[Caley Jim]

William, can you be more specific about the 'dodgy running'? If you can describe exactly what the problem is, then perhaps we can help you identify the cause and sort things out.

 

Jim

[Lacathedrale]

My only 2FS loco at this point is a converted Farish EE Type 3, and occasionally derails - there is no apparent rhyme or reason for this, the bogies appear to get kicked out of alignment from underneath while passing over vees/blades/etc. Annoyingly, wagons/etc. run through all the pointwork smoothly and were what I was using to validate the pointwork was sound.

 

Writing it down here, I guess the first thing to check is the check rail clearance and gauge/alignment of the crossing nose.

[Caley Jim]

I would also check the back to back of the wheels on the loco and wagons. Try and watch very closely what exactly is happening, which wheelsets are being knocked off and exactly where it's happening.

 

Jim (edit to correct the dreaded predictive text again!)

Edited January 23, 2019 by Caley Jim

[Chris Higgs]

My only 2FS loco at this point is a converted Farish EE Type 3, and occasionally derails - there is no apparent rhyme or reason for this, the bogies appear to get kicked out of alignment from underneath while passing over vees/blades/etc. Annoyingly, wagons/etc. run through all the pointwork smoothly and were what I was using to validate the pointwork was sound.

 

Writing it down here, I guess the first thing to check is the check rail clearance and gauge/alignment of the crossing nose.

 

I'd check the loco too. I remember there were some Farish locos that had the housing that covers the gears very close to the track level. They can be filed back to give more clearance.

 

Chris

[Lacathedrale]

Thanks, I am hoping to have more than a few minutes to spare in the workshop to go over both tomorrow. In the meantime I snuck 10 minutes before work a few days ago to put the first stage of weathering onto the LMS wagons, and a couple of ancient Peco/Grafar PO wagons while I'm at it. Really just the first pass - the insides will get a dusting of off-black and the frames a run over with sleeper grime, and whatever detail I need to add around the buffers on the vans.

 

 

Either way it's nice to see some colour other than brown!

 

EDIT: Had a quick look at the layout and seen that the switchblade on one of the culprit switches is gauged to 9.25mm so that's probably not helping. I tweaked with some pliers and we'll have to see how that goes.

 

I also got my Jinty chassis wired up with a DCC decoder and the good news is that it didn't blow up, but the bad news is that the worm gear isn't meshing correctly with the helical gear and jumps out and spins freely after a second or two. I think this is probably because of the number of times the chassis was bent and re-flattened, something has gotten out of whack. It's no big problem and has been a great learning experience. I must admit though, for both of these things I was hoping to get a bit further along before having to start over...

Edited January 25, 2019 by Lacathedrale

[Lacathedrale]

Here's a shot of the vans on the layout with the final SR mineral wagon - I've had to put an order in to get some more wheels for the PO wagons so they're not quite ready yet. 

 

 

These been half done on my workbench since before ChristmasI've i've already learned so much in the meantime that they seem quite crude, but I'm satisfied they're complete:

 

Edited January 27, 2019 by Lacathedrale

[Nig H]

 

Here's a shot of the vans on the layout with the final SR van - I've had to put an order in to get some more wheels for the PO wagons so they're not quite ready yet. 

 

 

These been half done on my workbench since before Christmas and i've already learned so much in the meantime that they seem quite crude, but I'm satisfied they're complete:

 

 

 

Hi William,

 

I think the vans should have steel underframes, not wooden. I'm not sure many wagons had 10' wheelbase wooden underframes with Morton brakes, but maybe someone else can advise.

 

Regards,

 

Nig H

[Lacathedrale]

Nigel, you're not wrong at all - I started my 2FS AND etched kit building journey attempting to build some Stephen Harris mineral wagons which were a mistake, so I backtracked to these vans as something that was achievable and it was only after they were built that someone mentioned that. I'll know for next time, for sure - thank you

 

Most of what I'm doing now is purely teleological (i.e. process-driven) rather than results driven - Ira Glass talked about how as an author you have to just grit your teeth and push past the first hundred thousand words before the good stuff starts (and, annoyingly that you know the first words are bad because your interest in good writing is what made you do it in the first place).  If I could project that onto model railways, for me it seems that there is just time, experience and 'doing' which need to happen - failures, burnt fingers and dodgy builds which need to come and go in order that I can improve. 

 

Next up (and half-built) on my workbench is a Chris Higgs 8-shoe cattle wagon. The underframe detail with all the spidery brake rigging is great, I can't wait to see how it comes together. 

[Chris Higgs]

Hi William,

 

I think the vans should have steel underframes, not wooden. I'm not sure many wagons had 10' wheelbase wooden underframes with Morton brakes, but maybe someone else can advise.

 

Regards,

 

Nig H

 

All except the last of the MR 10' wheelbase vans had wooden underframes.

 

So the answer is yes, just not the ones modelled here. It is for sure that a van with corrugated ends would also have had a steel underframe.

 

Chris

[Lacathedrale]

Here are the weathered and re-wheeled Peco/Farish wagons:

 

 

I've yet to remove the coupler blocks from the outer pair and it's very, very obvious. At some point, I'll get some etched chassis to go under the PO wagons. In retrospect, I could have used some of my LMS transfers to get the proper lettering on the company mineral wagon, but such is life.

[Lacathedrale]

In an attempt to move beyond the confines of what could otherwise be done with RTR track, my first effort at building a single slip is going well, despite some mistakes made  which may make it ultimately unusable:

1. Despite my best efforts using the common crossing assembly jig, the knuckles are a little tight.
2. I tried the method of planing one side of the rail and bending it flat, then fulling planing the other - this just resulted in an equilateral instead of right-angled triangle in plan view.

 

I'm not worried though - I deliberately made this as a sacrificial piece of track!

[Lacathedrale]

Thanks to the kind help of a number of chaps in the hand-laying-track area of the forum my single slip is progressing. I am doubtful it will actually function, but the construction process itself is nowhere near as daunting as I'd thought it would be. In the following shot the curved stock rail is just laid in place:

 

 

[Lacathedrale]

Here is my LMS Cattle wagon, finished bar couplings:

 

 

I used Halfords grey primer for the body, then gloss varnish to seal and added transfers (gloss brush painted over the transfers when they were set too). After that, I did an oil wash of black and some brown/white to tone it down, scrubbed off with an earbud dipped in thinner afer an hour or so. When that had settled overnight, I shot a coat of matt varnish ontop and then a little sleeper grime along the solebars and underframe.

 

Unfortunately one side has broken strapping and the other has a gap in the roofline - but generally I'm pleased with how this has come out!

[Lacathedrale]

Other than an RCH chassis built last night ahead of the AGM (to preemptively justify loads of bits being purchased) I haven't done much modelling - three months of intense work and sorting some personal circumstances out have lead me to put things away.

 

That said, with the encouragement and kind words of many, I'm tackling the Jinty again:

 

 

It's already gone very smoothly - the whole of the above done in a few hours this evening. I'll let you know how it pans out!

[Lacathedrale]

A bit further along today - infact this whole process has been lightning fast compared to the first time I did it - a smaller tipped soldering iron and flux paste seems to be working OK for me for now, looking like a bit of  a dragster, the chassis rolls quite freely.  There were a few small things to overcome - one of the axles had come out of centre with the wheel, so it was wobbling all over the place when run along a surface - I took it out and used a drill chuck and some thin pliers to rotate and bend it slowly back true. Infact I think that's been a theme of this build so far - being able to properly identify and address small issues as they arise, rather than ignoring them or not seeing them at all in the first place.

 

[Lacathedrale]

The Jinty forges onward - an hour or so this morning saw the idler axle with gears and the middle driven axle fitted:

 

 

Much like previously, I found a small issue - the idler axle wasn't long enough by a gnat's whisker - so I pushed the old axle through with a new axle, using a brass tube on the opposite side to support the chassis side and provide a place for the axle to pop out.

 

This time I did not open out the bearings at all or fit simpson springs, so the middle wheels are very sensitive in maintaining contact with undulating surfaces - but it all moves smoothly and as expected so far with no binding or catching anywhere. next up are the coupling rods and then I'm more or less back where I was 6mo ago!

 

[Nig H]

58 minutes ago, Lacathedrale said:

The Jinty forges onward - an hour or so this morning saw the idler axle with gears and the middle driven axle fitted:

 

 

Much like previously, I found a small issue - the idler axle wasn't long enough by a gnat's whisker - so I pushed the old axle through with a new axle, using a brass tube on the opposite side to support the chassis side and provide a place for the axle to pop out.

 

This time I did not open out the bearings at all or fit simpson springs, so the middle wheels are very sensitive in maintaining contact with undulating surfaces - but it all moves smoothly and as expected so far with no binding or catching anywhere. next up are the coupling rods and then I'm more or less back where I was 6mo ago!

 

Hi William,

 

If the idler axle is a single piece, won't you short out the chassis? Or does the idler 'axle' comprise two short axles with a gap in the middle of the gear muff?

 

Nig H

[Lacathedrale]

Oh no, you're totally right! Good catch and thank you!

[Lacathedrale]

Axle swapped, continuity checked and wheels quartered.

 

I've also checked the motor fits (it does) and that I have the correct tubing to telescope the shaft across the helical gear and out of the other side (I do, I think).

 

The only thing I'm not clear on is that last time I used an adapter it was an extremely tight fit on the motor shaft and this one is a little loose - so I have no idea how to fix it to the steel motor shaft without it slipping.

[CF MRC]

Some Loctite 601 would be the best way William.  If you let me know when you can get to Keen House I could bring some with me and fix it. 

 

Tim

[Lacathedrale]

So, after some advice in the Q&A thread, I revisited the bearings on the gearbox. I could not use the phosphor bronze bearings prescribed by Mr. Higgs, as I'd already broached out the gearbox hole to fit the brass bearings and they're different sizes.  As a result, I decided to slim down the bearing - another thing a lathe would probably have been a good tool to have around for. The bearing and gearbox are now dead straight (tested with a 3" length of axle steel), and the worm is now over the centre of the helical gear:

 

 

My thoughts at this stage are:

 

1) apply the 603 to the motor shaft and then temporarily hold the motor in place and apply 9v via battery to it and validate that the wheels on the bus go round and round

2) finish up the brake rigging/sand pipes

3) glue the motor in with 2-party epoxy glue

[CF MRC]

It’s as easy as 1,2,3. Sounds like a good plan, William. 

 

Tim

Edited September 12, 2019 by CF MRC

[Lacathedrale]

And.... here we are!

 

 

Everything does seem to be running smoothly - worm fixed, motor settled, rigging attached and a charcoal grey undercoat applied.

 

I reckon it's fairly unlikely that I'll be able to wire a DCC chip in before Sunday @CF MRC, so maybe I should just solder some fly leads from the chassis to the motor tags and get it going on the MRC test tracks in DC-mode?  Either way I'm really chuffed

[CF MRC]

Straight DC is good for the MRC for Sunday, William. 

 

Tim