Peterkern23 Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 (edited) I would appreciate some guidance from anyone who knows, as searching the internet is proving a little vague. I am currently making a layout based on the BR blue era around the early 80’s. I want to accurately portray the turnouts but I’m unsure what the point motors would have looked like back then. They won’t be manual lever and rodding type, more the electrical type as the images I’m basing it on show the signal box is disused. I have no idea what I’m looking for. Does anyone have any information? They will be scratchbuilt dummy motors as I’m adding manual operation under the the layout baseboard. Thanks. Pete Edited March 1, 2018 by Peterkern23 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted March 1, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 1, 2018 Most types of machine from the various contractors made up to then could be found along with BR Clamp Locks. Region and date of resignalling would help to determine the type that would be found. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterkern23 Posted March 1, 2018 Author Share Posted March 1, 2018 North east region specifically. Consett Station. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
28XX Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 From the factory, or after refurbishment at Crewe S&T works, point machines were painted mid grey. This quickly weathered as brake dust and diesel smut landed on it. Two exceptions were the HW and EP motors which had white GRP hoods when new. Didn’t stay that way for long. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dagworth Posted March 1, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 1, 2018 https://www.track-shack.com/acatalog/Peco-SL-47-00-H0-Scale-Point-Motor-Dummy-Peco-SL-47.html And http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/84599-dummy-point-motor-placement/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium HillsideDepot Posted March 1, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 1, 2018 I don't know when the Westinghouse Style 63 Point Machine was in production, but I do have an Instruction Book for the type. The only photo of the complete machine shows it with the cover open: There is however a fold out drawing of the machine: It says the"Standard finish is as follows:- Exterior: Paint to BSS.381C shade 632 grey (Brushed on) Interior of main cover: Special anti-condensation paint Interior of box: Yellow oil-resistant paint" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterkern23 Posted March 1, 2018 Author Share Posted March 1, 2018 This is all brilliant info thank you so much folks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted March 2, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 2, 2018 Westinghouse Style 63 was introduced in 1968. I believe that the 3-phase version may still available from Siemens Australia. They certainly had a data sheet for it in 2014. In UK the Surelock machine was the replacement from Westinghouse/Invensys/Siemens. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
43110andyb Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 Here in the north east you could get HW, SGE, M63 & Clamp locks but looking at some pictures of Consett here on David Heys collection site- http://www.davidheyscollection.com/page70.htm they seem to look like 'air points' shown here https://www.railscot.co.uk/img/21/280/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
43110andyb Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 (edited) Looking a bit closer to home for info might have helped me find something a bit quicker! (Forgotten this thread that I have even posted on myself) - some pics of air points here- http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/84830-moving-the-points-hands-rods-wires-and-machines/page-2 Edited March 2, 2018 by 43110andyb Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterkern23 Posted March 3, 2018 Author Share Posted March 3, 2018 Wow thanks Andy. There are some great photos on the first link. Is this the type I should be looking at? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
43110andyb Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 I'm no expert on air points as they were never on the area I worked but did see them a couple of times over in the Tees yard area. I think they were quite similar designs and similar layout. The air supply was in pipes as I recall but again my memories from the early 90's are sketchy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterkern23 Posted March 3, 2018 Author Share Posted March 3, 2018 My memories are non existent as I was born in 82 I have no recollection of anything other than the odd type 4 in a yard. It’s a problem for modellers who didn’t live to see it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium iands Posted March 5, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 5, 2018 I'm no expert on air points as they were never on the area I worked but did see them a couple of times over in the Tees yard area. I think they were quite similar designs and similar layout. The air supply was in pipes as I recall but again my memories from the early 90's are sketchy. The "air points", or EP (Electro-Pneumatic) to give them their correct name, were used all over the NER area, Berwick, Newcastle, Darlington, York, Hull, Leeds, etc. Largely replaced with Clamp Lock points during resignalling schemes from the 80s onwards. Another type of electric point machine also in use was the AEI. Regards, Ian. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
43110andyb Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 Around Darlington late 80's there were no air points unfortunately to see, mainly M63 and SGE, these were soon replaced by the clamp locks in the early 90's SSI re-signalling- ironically many have now been put back to HW2000 point machines. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeatonLodge40 Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 Here is a pic of a scratchbuilt dummy Westinghouse point motor on Heaton Lodge which is set in the early '80's. The yellow box is a track circuit detector 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dagworth Posted March 6, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 6, 2018 Here is a pic of a scratchbuilt dummy Westinghouse point motor on Heaton Lodge which is set in the early '80's. The yellow box is a track circuit detector That's a model? Pull the other one.... Andi Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium iands Posted March 6, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 6, 2018 The yellow box is a track circuit detector The yellow box(es) - for Aster tuned track circuits, one is the transformer, the other one is the tuning unit. Regards, Ian. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterkern23 Posted March 8, 2018 Author Share Posted March 8, 2018 Wow that looks good. What scale is it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeatonLodge40 Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 Iands thanks for that info I didn't realise the two parts were different. Am I right in thinking the two cables do actually attach to the rails? Peterkern23 its 7mm O gauge. Sorry for the hijack of the thread! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted March 9, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 9, 2018 Iands thanks for that info I didn't realise the two parts were different. Am I right in thinking the two cables do actually attach to the rails? Peterkern23 its 7mm O gauge. Sorry for the hijack of the thread! They may possibly be TI21 track circuits, which were developed on the Aster principle. The details are in this document. https://www.rssb.co.uk/rgs/standards/GKRC0761%20Iss%201.pdf If you look around on the RGS site there are handbooks for all sorts of equipment lurking, especially in the withdrawn documents. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium iands Posted March 9, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 9, 2018 Iands thanks for that info I didn't realise the two parts were different. Am I right in thinking the two cables do actually attach to the rails? Peterkern23 its 7mm O gauge. Sorry for the hijack of the thread! Hi 'HeatonLodge40', Yes, there will be a cable to each rail from the unit. What you have depicted in your model is a "centre-fed" track circuit with the two units mounted back-to-back on the stake in the ground. There is another "standard" configuration whereby 3 units are installed 2-3 yards apart in a line, a tuning unit, a transformer, and another tuning unit. By the way, the units could also be coloured white as well as yellow, although they didn't stay white for very long! Regards, Ian. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium iands Posted March 9, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 9, 2018 They may possibly be TI21 track circuits, which were developed on the Aster principle. The details are in this document. https://www.rssb.co.uk/rgs/standards/GKRC0761%20Iss%201.pdf If you look around on the RGS site there are handbooks for all sorts of equipment lurking, especially in the withdrawn documents. Thanks 'SignalEngineer', That could explain the difference between white and yellow units, something so simple I hadn't considered before. Whilst I've worked on Aster tracks in my youth, I don't recall ever working on TI21 track circuits - and the 'Aster' units were always 'white' (at least they started out being white, but quite quickly became a dirty brown colour). Regards, Ian. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterkern23 Posted March 10, 2018 Author Share Posted March 10, 2018 Iands thanks for that info I didn't realise the two parts were different. Am I right in thinking the two cables do actually attach to the rails? Peterkern23 its 7mm O gauge. Sorry for the hijack of the thread! Not at all. It’s very nice! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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