Diesel brake tenders with electric locos

[Peter Kazmierczak]

As we can't get out, was watching a railway DVD yesterday afternoon - BR 1948-94 Vol 1 From Goods to Railfreight.

 

Noticed a clip of the WCML with two freights passing (both hauled by electric locos). On one of the trains, there was a diesel brake tender coupled between the loco and the wagons. Hadn't realised they were used with electrics too.

 

Was this pretty common?

[PenrithBeacon]

I don't remember see one coupled to an electric loco, but I have seen archive cine shots of them being coupled behind steam engines on a class 9 freight. Perhaps to form a fitted head?

[TravisM]

As the brake tender was usually coupled in front of the hauling loco when being used in service, I would assume that it's being hauled as part of the train from one place to another.  It could have come in and the original loco gone tech, so being returned to it's original location while the loco is being repaired.

[jim.snowdon]

The concept of propelling the brake tender didn't last that long due to reported problems of diesel locomotive drivers finding it difficult to judge stopping points at signals. (In all probability, the same drivers had not long before been perfectly happy stopping steam locomotives at signals with many feet of boiler in front of where they were sitting.)

 

The use of brake tenders carried long after they stopped propelling them, simply coupled behind the locomotive as a fitted head.

 

Jim

[Davexoc]

As they were provided to increase the brake force for unfitted trains, I guess they could be added infront or behind any locomotive.

I think Diesel Brake Tender was a bit of a misnomer, they should have been called Modern Image Brake Tenders.....

 

Dave

[Evertrainz]

Apologies for the bump. Interesting shot with an AL6, tender between loco and minerals.

 

[Phatbob]

Electrodiesels working with brake tenders was once a common occurence "daarn saarf".

 

[Fat Controller]

I remember seeing 73s with brake tenders on trains to the coal depots at Tolworth and Chessington.

[BillyBoyTheBig]

I spent many happy days as a child in the early 1970s around Mitre Bridge with my father.  On a normal weekday afternoon there would often be 3 or 4 coal trains headed by a Class 73 or 74 that would have struggled up the West London line from Clapham Junction using their sparsely powered diesel engines.  Until about 1977-ish they would almost always have at least one, if not two, brake tenders behind the loco although I swear that on one occasion a Class 74 did propel a brake tender while hauling a coal train down towards Acton yard (despite this not being standard practice on the Southern, where the train would have originated).  After hearing the inevitable screeching of the train as it slowed down on the downward incline to the signal, I then used to run the short distance from the single 'parking space' on the corner (the 'parking space' was gravelled whereas the small access road that lead down to Old Oak Common 'power box' was poorly tarmac'd), up the road about 25 yards and there was a clear view of the locomotive waiting at the signal just before the short tunnel that lead out onto the Paddington Main line.  It seemed to be quite rare for the train to be cleared straight out across the Paddington lines and most were held at that signal.  You could then walk back down and eventually see the train snaking across the Paddington main line's crossovers to gain access to the slow lines that went down to Acton yard.  Happy days!

[Pandora]

On 05/08/2021 at 06:20, Evertrainz said:

Apologies for the bump. Interesting shot with an AL6, tender between loco and minerals.

 

The AL6 is hauling 25 to 30 wagons which appear to be loaded, therefore 400 tons to be braked, what were the regulations for an unfitted freight, the maximum speed and braking load of an AL6 on unfitted wagons? From the headcode, a class 8 train

Edited February 15, 2022 by Pandora

[Derekstuart]

On 05/08/2021 at 06:20, Evertrainz said:

Apologies for the bump. Interesting shot with an AL6, tender between loco and minerals.

 

Hello Evertrainz

 

Tell me, is that Wolverton? The curves lok just right, as does the platform and the signal repeater... but if so then the old Wolverton yard must have remained longer than I thought (IF it's Wolverton, the wagons are on what used to be a terminus platform for the Newport Pagnell branch).

Thanks
Derek

[keefer]

It is Wolverton, click on the photo to go to the Flickr page.

[Phatbob]

On 05/08/2021 at 11:54, Fat Controller said:

I remember seeing 73s with brake tenders on trains to the coal depots at Tolworth and Chessington.

I just found this online.  A class 73 ED at Wimbledon yard with no less than 4 brake tenders.

[Clive Mortimore]

2 hours ago, Phatbob said:

I just found this online.  A class 73 ED at Wimbledon yard with no less than 4 brake tenders.

Looking at the four, the outer two are on LMS bogies and appear to be of the longer diagram, the third one is on Gresley bogies and has a slight turn under at the bottom of its sides. Is the second one, also on LMS bogies one of the two shorter brake tenders that ran on LMS bogies?

[Phatbob]

1 hour ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Looking at the four, the outer two are on LMS bogies and appear to be of the longer diagram, the third one is on Gresley bogies and has a slight turn under at the bottom of its sides. Is the second one, also on LMS bogies one of the two shorter brake tenders that ran on LMS bogies?

Difficult to tell.
Original image is here. https://www.dawlishtrains.com/uploads/7/2/2/3/7223531/4144203_orig.jpg
Maybe you can zoom in a bit more on it?

[D7666]

On 15/02/2022 at 12:13, BillyBoyTheBig said:

 Until about 1977-ish they would almost always have at least one, if not two, brake tenders behind the loco although I swear that on one occasion a Class 74 did propel a brake tender

 

Yes.

 

You are right.

 

74s did work with brake tenders. Push and pull. I am aware of the thing about pushing was supposed to have been depracated from early days, but push they did.

 

IIRC the first time I saw a brake tender actually formed in a moving train (as opposed to seeing them stationary in yards) was with a 74 on one of the coal workings from Acton.

[TravisM]

Does anyone know when brake tenders were last used?

[D7666]

2 hours ago, jools1959 said:

Does anyone know when brake tenders were last used?

Good question.

 

Inevitably linked with whatever the last unfitted freights were that used them but apart form that I myself no idea.

 

These days were have "brake force runners" mainly for unbraked passenger / scrap stock moves,but of course those are something different to  "diesel brake tenders".

 

[Rivercider]

3 hours ago, jools1959 said:

Does anyone know when brake tenders were last used?

We have had threads about brake tenders on here before, without a definitive end date I believe.

I would suggest the British Steel strike of 1980 that rendered many hundreds of unfitted coal wagons surplus to requirements would have seriously reduced the requirement for them.

I can remember occasionally seeing a brake tender on the morning coal train from Severn Tunnel to Wapping Wharf in Bristol in about 1977 or 1978. Also the WR civil engineers fleet did not include any vacuum braked or air braked bogie vehicles for rail or track sections, so brake tenders were sometimes used on those trains until about 1980 or 1981,

 

Edit - August 1977 was the date when the NCB was instructed to load only vacuum fitted vehicles  for coal to Southern Region depots. 

 

cheers  

Edited May 21, 2023 by Rivercider
Additional info

[The Johnster]

There would have been no work for them once the last vacuum braked locos were withdrawn from service, as they were of no use with air-braked only locos.  About 1980 or very shortly afterwards sounds right.  It maybe that official withdrawal dates bore little relation to last use, and actually definitively pinning down and verifying the last time one was used in revenue or departmental service is going to be difficult. 

Edited May 21, 2023 by The Johnster