Representational modelling; early 1920s, GWR 36xx

[brumtb]

Having followed and admired the creations of masters like Nile and Corbs it is with some trepidation that I offer my latest attempt.

 

In the April 1976 edition of Railway Modeller was an article entitled The Plastic Prairie, concerning the building of a GWR 39xx in plasticard.

I followed the article and built my version on the recommended Wrenn/HD 0-6-0 chassis.  It worked well for its time but could have been better and eventually I sold it.  Ever since I've wanted to build a more modern version and looked at the Bachmann 45xx as a possible chassis donor.

A friend with a laser cutter kindly offered to cut out the body parts as set out in the Railway Modeller article and initially I intended to just use the 45xx chassis with the cylinders and connecting rods removed. However, on disassembling the loco I was impressed by the weight of the body parts and realising that the 39xx used the same boiler as the 45xx I decided to use as much of the 45 as possible.

The first task was to cut and straighten the footplate which then provided a firm base on which to build the laser cut body parts and incorporate the 45xx boiler, smokebox and firebox.

 

This is the result, 3916, not perfect the 45xx wheels are too small for a start and the photos show up many imperfections but as a working representation of a class 39 it works for me.  DCC fitted and capable of running on the relatively tight curves of my layout .

 

Edited October 11, 2019 by brumtb

[Corbs]

A cracking model of a loco not often spotted in model form. Did you end up using laser-cut pieces?

 

I'm flattered that you think so much of my bodgery, but if my clowning around with plastic encourages other people to have a go and share their creations then it fills me with joy!

[brumtb]

A cracking model of a loco not often spotted in model form. Did you end up using laser-cut pieces?

 

I'm flattered that you think so much of my bodgery, but if my clowning around with plastic encourages other people to have a go and share their creations then it fills me with joy!

 

Many thanks for your kind words.  Your encouragement is knowing that there are others " clowning around with plastic" in this RTR age.

In the end I really only used the tank/cab sides and one or two smaller pieces as it became apparent how much of the 45xx could be utilised.

I've always had a soft spot for the 39xx as they were Birmingham area locos primarily.  My layout is set around a joint GWR/Midland station, Birmingham Bull Ring, with running powers granted to the fictitious West Midlands & South Wales Union Railway which has connections with both the main companies

[Clearwater]

Interesting. I too hanker for a 39xx. Given the prototype was converted from a Dean Goods, I’d wondered about using that as a starting point?

 

There was a Jackson Evans kit but I’m yet to see one of those come up for sale. Surely an opening for an enterprising etcher!

 

David

[brumtb]

Interesting. I too hanker for a 39xx. Given the prototype was converted from a Dean Goods, I’d wondered about using that as a starting point?

 

There was a Jackson Evans kit but I’m yet to see one of those come up for sale. Surely an opening for an enterprising etcher!

 

David

 

Yes, David I think the Oxford Dean Goods might be a good bet as long as the leading and trailing trucks can be fitted securely. I'm sure there's a way!  Possibly a project for 3D printing also? 

[Sandhole]

Yes, David I think the Oxford Dean Goods might be a good bet as long as the leading and trailing trucks can be fitted securely. I'm sure there's a way!  Possibly a project for 3D printing also? 

A very good job modelling an awkward locomotive.

I love odd engines, I'm finishing off a GCR L3 264 tank, nothing more awkward than that.

The idea of using an Oxford Dean Goods is damn cool.

[mow]

Was intrigued by this, and looked for some photos, and found this on warwarkshirerailways.com

 

http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrbsh1765.htm

[Clearwater]

Yes, David I think the Oxford Dean Goods might be a good bet as long as the leading and trailing trucks can be fitted securely. I'm sure there's a way! Possibly a project for 3D printing also?

An alternative would be to start with the comet chassis frames and solder on extensions to cover the pony and bogie. I guess a 45xx frames could be fettled to fit on top?

[6892 Oakhill Grange]

I think (I can’t get at any of the books today) that the coupled wheelbase is different between a 39xx and the Dean Goods.

 

So the commercially available chassis’ are not suitable. If memory serves the wheelbase is 7ft3in + 7ft3in

 

Adrian

[Clearwater]

I’m in the same place re checking but will look when I’m home later. I can find an online diagramme of a 39xx which suggests the wheels are evenly spaced at 7’ but not for a Dean Goods. Question is whether one is prepared to leave with a slightly wrong wheel base or get into cutting your own frames... really into the realms of scratch building!

[Ravenser]

Fascinating. The prototype really looks like something Triang might have perpetrated in the 1950s when skirts on boilers were de rigeur .

 

The "solid block with smokebox stuck on the outside" look suggests that all Churchward could source was an ancient Romford motor with a massive horseshoe magnet, and this was the only way he could get it inside a tank loco body....

[Clearwater]

To answer my own question, the wheelbase is different on the Dean Goods which begs the question why the GWR altered that when rebuilding? From a brief scan of the books, the evenly spaced wheels of the 39xx seem relative unusual for the GWR.

 

As a slight coda, a quick google unearthed a copy of the April 1976 RM for sale. Is now hopefully on its way to me! Many thanks to the OP for the reference to help me find that inspiration!

Edited March 6, 2018 by Clearwater

[Corbs]

Well the GWR weren't exactly averse to 'rebuilds on paper'

[DCB]

The 39XX seem to have been an exercise in sheer bloody mindedness, Churchward could not ge authorisation for new build so he created rebuilds using the absolute minimum of old parts  they were ostensibly rebuilt from dean goods but must have needed new mainframes and of course new Std 5 boilers. The intention may have been to show just how ugly a tank loco can be but again he failed as the Midland Flatirons and Hughes L&Y 2-6-2Ts out uglied them hands down.  No doubt after a suitable interval most of the parts were restored to the stores, cylinders, valve gear, boiler, wheels, leaving just the frames and tanks to be scrapped

 

Creating a convincing ,model is difficult as the wheelbase is 7ft +7ft which ivery different to a Dean Goods or 57XX but in 00 the Triang Hornby B12/Hall/Saint and H/D Wrenn Castle chassis are the right wheelbase  for the 39XX but not for Hall/Castle etc.

[HonestTom]

I don't know why, but I quite like these. I think it's the fact that they're so odd-looking that they're almost compelling.

[Nile]

It certainly looks the part, well done brumtb.

[brumtb]

It certainly looks the part, well done brumtb.

 

Thank you Nile, that's the aim.

[Clearwater]

My copy of the April 1976 RM has arrived. What a great article!

 

The author, a Group Captain B Huxley, begins the article venting his frustration that just about every time he completes scratchbuilding something, one of the kit manufacturers brings out a kit of said loco, eg an Aberdare. He therefore resorts to a 39xx on the grounds he sees it unlikely that anyone will ever introduce a kit of said prototype. He ends the article extorting manufacturers to do their worst! Jackson Evans subsequent did.

 

Strikes me the themes of someone competing against what the manufacturers (kit as opposed to rtr) is an ever present in our hobby. I wonder if the Group Captain is still with us? Googling turns up a Air Vice Marshall Brian Huxley CBE who was appointed CB in 1986. I wonder if that's the same person?

 

David

[lofty1966]

Whatever happened to the Jackson Evans Etched brass kit after they sold the business?

[brumtb]

My copy of the April 1976 RM has arrived. What a great article!

 

The author, a Group Captain B Huxley, begins the article venting his frustration that just about every time he completes scratchbuilding something, one of the kit manufacturers brings out a kit of said loco, eg an Aberdare. He therefore resorts to a 39xx on the grounds he sees it unlikely that anyone will ever introduce a kit of said prototype. He ends the article extorting manufacturers to do their worst! Jackson Evans subsequent did.

 

Strikes me the themes of someone competing against what the manufacturers (kit as opposed to rtr) is an ever present in our hobby. I wonder if the Group Captain is still with us? Googling turns up a Air Vice Marshall Brian Huxley CBE who was appointed CB in 1986. I wonder if that's the same person?

 

David

 

Yes, a very inspiring article!  Almost 42 years ago that I started my first attempt and it still has relevance today.

[Regularity]

My copy of the April 1976 RM has arrived. What a great article!

The author, a Group Captain B Huxley, begins the article venting his frustration that just about every time he completes scratchbuilding something, one of the kit manufacturers brings out a kit of said loco, eg an Aberdare. He therefore resorts to a 39xx on the grounds he sees it unlikely that anyone will ever introduce a kit of said prototype. He ends the article extorting manufacturers to do their worst! Jackson Evans subsequent did.

 

Look at the June 76 issue, and there is a letter from Tony East, pointing out that he had just completed a model (in metal) of the same class, but had been beaten to it by the Group Captain.

Strikes me the themes of someone competing against what the manufacturers (kit as opposed to rtr) is an ever present in our hobby. I wonder if the Group Captain is still with us? Googling turns up a Air Vice Marshall Brian Huxley CBE who was appointed CB in 1986. I wonder if that's the same person?

David

Probably.

He also wrote a number of articles about modelling GWR wagons.

Edited March 14, 2018 by Regularity

[Ravenser]

My copy of the April 1976 RM has arrived. What a great article!

 

The author, a Group Captain B Huxley, begins the article venting his frustration that just about every time he completes scratchbuilding something, one of the kit manufacturers brings out a kit of said loco, eg an Aberdare. He therefore resorts to a 39xx on the grounds he sees it unlikely that anyone will ever introduce a kit of said prototype. He ends the article extorting manufacturers to do their worst! Jackson Evans subsequent did.

 

Strikes me the themes of someone competing against what the manufacturers (kit as opposed to rtr) is an ever present in our hobby. I wonder if the Group Captain is still with us? Googling turns up a Air Vice Marshall Brian Huxley CBE who was appointed CB in 1986. I wonder if that's the same person?

 

David

 

 

I would be surprised if he still is, and the Air Vice Marshal may well be the same person. The modeller was certainly Brian Huxley.

 

As Regularity notes , he also wrote articles on GW wagons . To be specific, his modelling ambition was to produce a 4mm model of every diagram of wagon the GWR ever built , and he may have got pretty close. There was a long series of major articles on how to do it over about a dozen years - the opens and vans (O-series and V-series diagrams) were substantial 2 parters and covered construction of virtually every diagram, so they are a major resource for the GW modeller. I recently managed to rebuild a Wrenn meat van into something accurate following another of his late 70s articles, "Taking the MICA"

 

I recall Tony East's reposte to being beaten on the 39xx - "Them's fightin' words out on the old GW Praires.. " was a conversion of a Triang Jinty to a MSWJR 0-4-4T, again in RM, which is just possibly the ultimate in RTR hacks... I think Tony East may still be around, living in the USA and writing occasional letters to MRJ

[JimC]

The 39XX seem to have been an exercise in sheer bloody mindedness, Churchward could not get authorisation for new build so he created rebuilds using the absolute minimum of old parts 

The story I heard was that they were completely overloaded in the machining shops, even though there was capacity in the rest of the works, so reusing all the motion components from the Dean Goods was a big advantage. No doubt they also had more 0-6-0  tender engines than they really had work for too, with the 28s coming into service.

[brumtb]

I would be surprised if he still is, and the Air Vice Marshal may well be the same person. The modeller was certainly Brian Huxley.

 

As Regularity notes , he also wrote articles on GW wagons . To be specific, his modelling ambition was to produce a 4mm model of every diagram of wagon the GWR ever built , and he may have got pretty close. There was a long series of major articles on how to do it over about a dozen years - the opens and vans (O-series and V-series diagrams) were substantial 2 parters and covered construction of virtually every diagram, so they are a major resource for the GW modeller. I recently managed to rebuild a Wrenn meat van into something accurate following another of his late 70s articles, "Taking the MICA"

 

I recall Tony East's reposte to being beaten on the 39xx - "Them's fightin' words out on the old GW Praires.. " was a conversion of a Triang Jinty to a MSWJR 0-4-4T, again in RM, which is just possibly the ultimate in RTR hacks... I think Tony East may still be around, living in the USA and writing occasional letters to MRJ

 

I remember the Tony East MSWJR 0-4-4T now.  Can you recall which issue of RM, I'd love to read it again!

[kingdom]

I remember the Tony East MSWJR 0-4-4T now.  Can you recall which issue of RM, I'd love to read it again!

 I think you'll find it was the January 1978 issue, page 14 -

 

John