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AdeMoore

Wantage Tramway No.5 "Jane" or 'Shannon' from the Sandy & Potton Tramway (1850).

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So into the lions den, all you guys posting here are worlds above me but I thought what the heck it would be a nice record just for myself.

I’m a complete beginner in every way, only ever built a parkside kit a card station and a scratch tunnel about 18 years ago, after my son had a TTT engine starter kit and I expanded it to base boards and a siding.

Ill heath hit me late last year with a return of my reactive arthritis for a common name, so my normal hobbies of cycling, walking and geocaching went out the window I could barely walk out to the car.

Farce Book threw up a couple of model railway items by chance in my feed so I went off surfing the web on such things found this site, my son now 26 said he had no interest in his former layout and if he ever had kids it would be a scalextrix! So I said could I have a do at his layout, of course I could. So he got it out the loft for me as I couldn’t get up there.

I dug out a various bits and this was a project spurred on by MRJ back in 1999. I had bought various bits from Challis Models in Shepton Mallet on their advice back then to have a go at it in 4mm.

So I have the old MRJ somewhere but couldn’t get mobile enough to seek them out. I bought the first one off eBay then resurrected a thread on here and Dave better know as Chris P Bacon was kind enough to scan the rest and forward them to me.

Anyway with new meds the reactive arthritis started getting better Dave is building one and you need to check out his way by producing the lot as an etch http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/57208-sandy-gn-lnwr-or-bre/page-25&do=findComment&comment=3076966

Dave ran one up in plastic to check it works and in that he quoted a measurement, glad he did mine was out as I had buggered up the photocopy reduction! That sorted I was ready to start.

But unfortunately I’ve had a stay in hospital in intensive care for pneumonia, so had a week in there and just out and confined to barracks for 2 weeks.

That’s the background now some progress.

 

 

The small wrong size photocopy with the proper 4mm one narrow escape!

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Soldered two frame blanks together as per Laurie’s instructions.

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My table set up not allowed out in the shed!

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My view today sunny not bad at all

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Can’t get out and use my drill & stand so had to improvise.

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Idea was/is to compensate it but these hornblocks are a little big I have a cunning plan.

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Deliberately punched axle mark off centre! Can’t see with glasses and a magnifier gonna have to invest in one of those over head fancy jobs! I sorted, being an electrician always able to lean the drill to centre up then throw the drill upright, be a knats wisker out at most..

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Got first bush in didn’t have the right drill size so had to ream her out. Think that’s the right one better check!

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Nice to see you having a go at scratch building. It's great fun but can be frustrating at times. Just take it one step at a time and get it right before moving on.

 

May I suggest that you make or get the coupling rods next as they are what make sure you get the axle centres in the right place. When I make the frame spacers I use 010" material and cut a strip as long as possible, leads to less dimensional errors. I use a stanley knife or similar, it will cut 010" with a few passes and be more accurate than cutting with a saw and file.

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For the benefit of others contemplating scratch building, start with the coupling rods. Or, make a coupling rod template from scrap brass or nickel silver. Scribe a centre line and drill 1mm hole at each axle centre. File the front of the template to a point. Use the template to mark out the frames and the rods. Keep the template to make the sister loco.

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Nice to see you having a go at scratch building. It's great fun but can be frustrating at times. Just take it one step at a time and get it right before moving on.

 

May I suggest that you make or get the coupling rods next as they are what make sure you get the axle centres in the right place. When I make the frame spacers I use 010" material and cut a strip as long as possible, leads to less dimensional errors. I use a stanley knife or similar, it will cut 010" with a few passes and be more accurate than cutting with a saw and file.

  

For the benefit of others contemplating scratch building, start with the coupling rods. Or, make a coupling rod template from scrap brass or nickel silver. Scribe a centre line and drill 1mm hole at each axle centre. File the front of the template to a point. Use the template to mark out the frames and the rods. Keep the template to make the sister loco.

I’m following Laurie Griffins way of doing it from the MRJ articles coupling rods come next, so your advice appears the accepted way of doing things. Thanks for the comments.

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 Really good to see you're back to health and you've started.

 

She's a really pretty little thing, but oh boy, she'll test your eyesight! Really looking forward to seeing your progress as I've used the easy way....... :)

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Some folks may not be familiar with the prototype so I thought I would bung up a few pics, also I doubt I can share any of the MRJ articles as looking at copyright Laurie Griffin needs to have passed away by 70 years before it’s out of copyright.

This was the original thread on the articles http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/96567-wantage-tramway-no5-jane-mrj-articles/

Also I didn’t make clear the series was for 7mm not 4mm hence the photocopier reduction method.

 

 

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Hi Ade,

 

You know, that engine is vaguely familiar! There is of course the livery to decide upon (why do people concentrate on trivialities like that when the frames are only just being laid down?) - red or green? I look forward to seeing this one develop.

 

All the best,

 

Castle

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Managed an hour nearly two. Gonna need some fillets to straighten the frame holes out, or make them flow to include the extra removal. Struggling to see it with the multi drill in hand.

I don’t possess a piercing saw so the multi and various bits did it all.

The pritt-stick stuck on templates works well, I read of it on here somewhere but as soon as I added a little lub for drilling etc they let go after a bit. So Laurie’s 3M spray mount is probably better.

Next to fettle the horn blocks then cut out the frames to the outline.

 

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A bit photo heavy but hey I’m learning,

Edit as hit reply by accident.

Edited by AdeMoore
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Nice - good luck with the project, which is clearly coming along well.

 

But do avail yourself of a piercing saw - it's one of those bits of kit that a lot of people buy rather late in their modeling careers (I was guilty of that!) and then wonder why they didn't get one years before as it's so useful - and despite what you may have read in some places, it's not difficult to use

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Nice - good luck with the project, which is clearly coming along well.

 

But do avail yourself of a piercing saw - it's one of those bits of kit that a lot of people buy rather late in their modeling careers (I was guilty of that!) and then wonder why they didn't get one years before as it's so useful - and despite what you may have read in some places, it's not difficult to use

Cheers John I did look back along but from what I’ve read you want one with a blade tensioner rather than a sprung frame and the only place I found those online was at Squires they don’t do online shopping you have to phone which I find a faff but I guess I’ll have to

See pic below I guess I want the biggest? 150mm though that’s a deep throat so 100mm maybe, and a selection of blades no idea which to choose!

Any advice greatly received

 

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.

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Mich Cheers looked there, advice is don’t go for those sprung frame type, tension screw are far better from what I have read.

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Mich Cheers looked there, advice is don’t go for those sprung frame type, tension screw are far better from what I have read.

Sprung frames limit you to a single blade size, tension screw let you use bits of broken blade which is a big help as you always run out of fresh blades towards the end of a project on a Sunday of a long weekend. As for blade type, you will be wanting to get fine blades for cutting thin sheet stock. The rule of thumb is to have three teeth in contact with the metal at all times and always have the teeth pointing towards the handle so you cut on the downstroke thus keeping the blade under tension.

 

HTH

 

Edit: Sorry, I should have mentioned blade sizes. Get an assortment of sizes 2/0, 4/0, 6/0, and 8/0 if they have them, that way you have all metal thicknesses covered. As for blade lubricant a candle will do just fine.

 

Cheers,

 

David

Edited by davknigh
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Excellent advice. They key is to supporting the work securely. This simple addition to the bench took seconds to make and is constantly evolving.

I find new blades last either 3 minutes or 3 months.

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Sprung frames limit you to a single blade size, tension screw let you use bits of broken blade which is a big help as you always run out of fresh blades towards the end of a project on a Sunday of a long weekend. As for blade type, you will be wanting to get fine blades for cutting thin sheet stock. The rule of thumb is to have three teeth in contact with the metal at all times and always have the teeth pointing towards the handle so you cut on the downstroke thus keeping the blade under tension.

HTH

David

Brilliant thanks David just the info I was after.

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Brilliant thanks David just the info I was after.

Thanks, I’ve added some more via an edit.

 

Cheers,

 

David

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Don't get the adjustable frame, you can't do this with it.

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I have bent the top of the frame over a little, this allows you to saw a long cut down the edge of a sheet of metal. Once you get used to using a piercing saw you won't want to be without it.

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Choosing piercing saw blades is easy I tend to use 3 sizes 0 , 4x0, 6x0. But the main requirement is the teeth are closer together than the thickness of the sheet. Always saw away from you and turn the work not the saw.

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I think there is one important piece of information left:

 

If you broke already 3 blades in a row, leave it for now and try it again tomorrow.

 

Addition: You may have a beer instead, but if you have five, blades will continue to brake tomorrow.

 

There ARE days when you won't be able to do it properly, especially in thin metal material.

 

Michael

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Tension is the key. Eventually you learn to tune it

Like a guitar. No, I cant name he note,but it sounds right when twanged.

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The only comment I haven't seem is how to tension the blades/saw. Put the blade in one end of the frame and tighten it, but leave the other end free. Then put the frame between you and a large object, such as a workbench. Lean into the frame so that it bends slightly making the blade side shorter. While holding it here, tighten the other end of the blade. When you release the pressure it will pull the blade tight. You should be able to pluck it light a guitar. If you don't tension the blades they will snap very easily.

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Hi Ade,

You know, that engine is vaguely familiar! There is of course the livery to decide upon (why do people concentrate on trivialities like that when the frames are only just being laid down?) - red or green? I look forward to seeing this one develop.

All the best,

Castle

The way I understand it, Shannon was turned out in royal blue originally, but whatever the builder fancies, best of luck good sir! :)
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I shall be following this with interest in the lead up to my possible attempt to 3D print it.

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I shall be following this with interest in the lead up to my possible attempt to 3D print it.

 

Good luck.

 

I've etched it, as even with the thin walls of brass there is barely enough room for a motor and gearbox and it needs as much weight as possible.  

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I use the sprung sort - I tried the other type and couldn't get on with it. Horses for courses, I suppose.

 

Yes, tension the blade by fixing one end and then pressing the whole caboodle against your work-bench as you fasten the other end. Oh, and make sure you put the blade in the frame with the teeth pointing the right way; and the right way up.....

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