Wantage Tramway No.5 "Jane" or 'Shannon' from the Sandy & Potton Tramway (1850).

[chris p bacon]

I'll have a look in the parts bin, I might have a slidebar and crosshead set that might work for you.

 

[AdeMoore]

41 minutes ago, chris p bacon said:

I'll have a look in the parts bin, I might have a slidebar and crosshead set that might work for you.

 

Dave most kind, though I’ve not given up yet!

 Cheers 

[phil_sutters]

One for your workspace pinboard!

[Jon4470]

Hi Ade

You have my sympathy! It’s really frustrating at times.

 

A couple of suggestions that might help ( in addition to the meds)

 

If the solder is beading then it’s almost certain that something is dirty. So clean everything.

I use a wood block for soldering on and some small parts do get carbon on them! I have had a recommendation to use Tufnol instead of wood....although I haven’t bothered yet! Not even sure where I’d get any.

 

The other suggestion is to use a steel pin - much more difficult to solder up (I use steel bolts when soldering retaining nuts). Other people suggest oil on the brass pin to stop the solder adhesion - I’d worry that I’d contaminate everything with oil - then back to meds!

 

Good luck

 

Jon

[AdeMoore]

10 hours ago, Jon4470 said:

Hi Ade

You have my sympathy! It’s really frustrating at times.

 

A couple of suggestions that might help ( in addition to the meds)

 

If the solder is beading then it’s almost certain that something is dirty. So clean everything.

I use a wood block for soldering on and some small parts do get carbon on them! I have had a recommendation to use Tufnol instead of wood....although I haven’t bothered yet! Not even sure where I’d get any.

 

The other suggestion is to use a steel pin - much more difficult to solder up (I use steel bolts when soldering retaining nuts). Other people suggest oil on the brass pin to stop the solder adhesion - I’d worry that I’d contaminate everything with oil - then back to meds!

 

Good luck

 

Jon

Cheers Jon much appreciated. Dirty definitely from the carbon from the reheat, so a split of the laminated pieces is called for with some heat again and a major clean up.

Now I have formulated a plan for a jig using two coffee stirrers and drilling holes for dress making pins to go through for the part to rest on, edge on. So I’ll be attempting to solder with the laminations looking at me and a bulldog clip doing the holding. Here’s hoping.

 Cheers 

Ade.

[AdeMoore]

This is a hooray post!

so made the jig it worked, lined with silver foil that was the hardest bit.

 

 

 

Clamped in the vice every piece lovingly cleaned even with the glass fibre pen that really does make a difference.

Then lashings of flux for the capillary action to work.

 

 

In with a really hot iron and hold it there as Dave suggested, was 400 deg on the dial but I think this £20 iron could be 200 deg out! Kept it there until the wood started smelling then in with the 145 deg solder.

Spot the deliberate mistake?

Yes I left the connecting rod pin in!

Put back the 2 pins I had taken out and back in the vice, more flux grabbed the pin with pliers in with the iron and pulled her out.

 

 

Upset the alignment a little.

 

 

so coffee stirrers vertical in the vice to hold the rod heat and tweezers I had that sorted!

chuffed with that.

 

 

Fetle it up next.

Then one more to do and I’ll be making progress.

Until next time.

 Cheers.

[chris p bacon]

You're on stronger meds now...if not it's only a matter of time..

[Jon4470]

Well done Ade!

[AdeMoore]

Dare I say going well now.

Brain hurts though, just about to go in with the iron on the 2nd set when I noticed the connecting rod pin still in! Got it out and soldered her up.

Then out with the files and fettled her up and managed to fit the connecting rod with a dress makers pin as per Daves build, needs some more filing yet but pleased with it.

Feels like I’m getting somewhere at last.

 

 

until next time

Cheers

 

 

[chris p bacon]

Give it time and you'll be sticking those pins in an effigy of me...

 

Looking good....but remember...this hobby is supposed to be fun..

[AdeMoore]

Dave I’m loving it, making actual stuff from bits how satisfying is that.

challenging yourself and succeeding is immensely satisfying.

Just 1 can of Diet Coke was needed for that post! And that was only because I have man flu!

No effigies here, got a feeling I wouldn’t be still building this without you and your support and kindness.

 Cheers 

Ade

 

[AdeMoore]

Moving on.

Both crossheads done.

Time to mount on the front of the cylinders. But first as I envisage 70 deg solder for the cover plate, valve guide  and slide bars all in one hit, I needed to cut and fit the cylinder wrappers.

First the cylinder assembly needed a fettle to fit the wrapper between the front and rear plates.

One wrapper fitted rear for solder and taking stock it’s great to do something other than the motion! 

Question would you solder the slide bars etc. To the rear of the assembly in one hit with 70deg? The wrappers etc are/will be done with 145deg.

Progress pics.

 

 

 

Were getting there, one year in wow! 

Did think perhaps I ought to be finished by now, but I’ve not really invested a huge amount of time into it.

My health was very poor at the beginning.

I’ll keep plodding on and see how the next year goes with it.

Until next time

Cheers.

[chris p bacon]

I've soldered everything with 145, it does mean you have to 'in and out' sharpish so as not to melt previous work.......the swearbox is rather full as well...

[AdeMoore]

58 minutes ago, chris p bacon said:

I've soldered everything with 145, it does mean you have to 'in and out' sharpish so as not to melt previous work.......the swearbox is rather full as well...

Cheers for the info Dave, that’s my concern melting what I have previously done.

But I think a heat sink close by could do the trick or be super quick like you with a swear box!

 Thanks.

[AdeMoore]

Right done a tiny bit more but need advice. More on that in a bit.

first a bit of progress cut out some Cylinder wrappers? And managed to solder them on.

 

 

Above the successful attempt to keep cylinders lined up while soldering the wrappers.

 

 

 

 

Now the use of 70 deg solder has come to bite me, the valve chest plate let go and slipped.

 

 

Sorted below.

 

 

 

Above after many attempts god the rear cylinder cover on with the slide bars! about 3rd go removing and cleaning up between each go. I didn’t show the attempt with brass rods in the cylinder holes! Soaked the rod in WD40 and thought that would stop the holes being soldered over! Fail drill the holes out, clean etc etc.

 

 

 

Here we go below on the next cover clean, flux, 145 deg solder. Got it to solder eventually cleaning and loads of flux it did.  But I cut the wrong end of the slide bar fret! Try as I might, as the two bars are no longer joined by fret, I can’t get them positioned together to solder.  I’ve tried probably for 2 and a half hours! I’ve probably  annealed it Ive had so many goes.

 

 

Below are  the two slide bars, now I think (refreshed after tea)  I could drill a couple of holes in the end of a dowel and insert them in to hold them to enable the soldering. I was using a clothes peg but they moved and twisted in a peg.

 

 

Any ideas folks?

 

Soldering the brass is still a massive problem, I’m gonna invest in a proper steel ball iron cleaner see if that helps better than a Brillo pad I’m currently using.

 

This new software is not great on an iPad this has taken twice as long to post this as it used to Photos miss sized then accidentally deleted  etc!

ive not been idle but been using WT more 

All comments greatfully received 

until next time 

Cheers

Edited May 27, 2019 by AdeMoore
Spelling making sense

[AdeMoore]

Where you may be interested to find my other ramblings 

https://www.westernthunder.co.uk/index.php?threads/starting-out-in-pre-1971-kit-building.7101/page-2

 

andif I give up here!

 

https://www.westernthunder.co.uk/index.php?threads/wantage-tramway-jane-no-5-in-4mm.7151/

 

Cheers

 

[Jon4470]

Hi Ade

 

Nice job on the cylinder wrappers.

 

The things I do/use for the various points in your post are:

- cocktail sticks to align components with holes (sometimes steel bolts used)

- I clean the soldering iron tip with the damp sponge that came with the stand. I clean the tip after each solder joint

- to solder the two slide bars I would try to solder one bar in and make sure it is lined up correctly. Then I would solder the other bar. I think you could line the second bar by eye and hold it while soldering. You need to be quick enough with the iron so that you don’t unsolder the first one...otherwise swear a lot!

- make sure the brass is clean - I use a fibre glass pencil

 

I’m sure you’ve probably tried these already - but if not it may help.

 

Jon

[AdeMoore]

Thanks Jon,

certainly tried all those. I do you the sponge to clean everytime that came on the stand.

The one at a time method proved to be the issue, to get the solder so I could insert the 2nd always made the first run and fall off! I just seem to need so much heat sometimes laying the tip on its side so more tip is in contact with the brass on the remelting goes. Always feeding in flux to, otherwise no amount of heat will get the solder to run again for another attempt.

thanks for some help/advice.

 Cheers 

[chris p bacon]

As Jon does I use cocktail sticks and keep the iron tip clean. I've got the sponge that came with the iron but I've also got a ball of brass wool(?) that I drag the tip through and that takes the crud off of it.

A fibreglass pen is your best mate with this sort of job, I couldn't do without mine.

 

For the slide bars you could use some scrap etch strip. Fix one, and when satisfied it's at 90 degrees to the cylinders fix the other with a wood spacer (or something that doesn't conduct heat)

This is the part I found awkward and I had a head start on you. I was really hoping to find a picture from 1855 that showed Shannon with a skirt so you couldn't see any of it ..but alas.....

[sej]

Hi Ade

 

Have you come across this thread by Giles, brilliantly describing silver soldering, on Western Thunder. It might provide you with some alternative ideas. I found it very informative.

 

http://www.westernthunder.co.uk/index.php?threads/silver-soldering-loco-construction.4673/

 

Cheers

Simon

[Jon4470]

Hi Ade

I was thinking about this earlier today. If the joint and workpieces are clean then the other possibility could be lack of power. For brass, I use a 50watt iron attached to a temperature control station - set at 375 degrees ( or even a touch higher). The only times that I get problems, that require long dwell times, is when the brass is thick ( old style mainframes). I’ve now acquired an 80 watt iron - not used yet- ready for the attack on a set of old Jamieson frames!

 

Jon

[AdeMoore]

10 hours ago, chris p bacon said:

As Jon does I use cocktail sticks and keep the iron tip clean. I've got the sponge that came with the iron but I've also got a ball of brass wool(?) that I drag the tip through and that takes the crud off of it.

A fibreglass pen is your best mate with this sort of job, I couldn't do without mine.

 

For the slide bars you could use some scrap etch strip. Fix one, and when satisfied it's at 90 degrees to the cylinders fix the other with a wood spacer (or something that doesn't conduct heat)

This is the part I found awkward and I had a head start on you. I was really hoping to find a picture from 1855 that showed Shannon with a skirt so you couldn't see any of it ..but alas.....

 

Ha like that Dave a skirt to hide it all, I may invent one!

Yes I use a fibreglass pen to aid the clean up. Yes one of those brass wool jobs was what I meant above.

cant seem to crack soldering the bars individually hence trying for a pair at once.

 

9 hours ago, sej said:

Hi Ade

 

Have you come across this thread by Giles, brilliantly describing silver soldering, on Western Thunder. It might provide you with some alternative ideas. I found it very informative.

 

http://www.westernthunder.co.uk/index.php?threads/silver-soldering-loco-construction.4673/

 

Cheers

Simon

 

Hi Simon no news to me I’ll take a look thanks for the link.

 

15 minutes ago, Jon4470 said:

Hi Ade

I was thinking about this earlier today. If the joint and workpieces are clean then the other possibility could be lack of power. For brass, I use a 50watt iron attached to a temperature control station - set at 375 degrees ( or even a touch higher). The only times that I get problems, that require long dwell times, is when the brass is thick ( old style mainframes). I’ve now acquired an 80 watt iron - not used yet- ready for the attack on a set of old Jamieson frames!

 

Jon

 

Hi Jon you could be right mines only a cheapy https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01186R3AE/ref=as_li_qf_asin_il_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=charliebish0c-21&creative=6738&linkCode=as2&creativeASIN=B01186R3AE&linkId=3d514b2642a02de8ca79c23a2acd713b

But 48W and 480 deg allegedly.

But I have to wind it to maximum on this, that’s 0.5mm brass I’m trying to solder to.

It seems funny trying to remelt the join between the cover and the brass plate on max with the first lot of flux gone up in smoke, I keep the flux going on and then the solder eventually remelts, no flux added after the initial soak it never looks like melting.

I’ll look at Simons link see if I can learn anything.

 Cheers 

thanks all.

[AdeMoore]

Umm reading the reviews this jumps out 

“Defiantly not a 48 watt iron, perhaps a 15 watts one as it takes a lot longer to heat up (I spent 20 years as a electronics technician), seems okay for small jobs but it will struggle with larger pieces. Has started humming but still working after a few hours use. After a month of light use the metal bit holding the soldering iron spring has dropped off. You are better off buying a decent iron.”

I was recommended it by Charlie Bishop off YouTube I see he’s upgraded to!

[Jon4470]

Sounds like that might be the problem.

 

I use Antex soldering irons. The solder station that I have isn’t available anymore ( I think). Quick check on Amazon gives a number of stations with a wide range of  makes and prices.....avoid the dirt cheap ones though.

 

You could also check on Squires or Eileen’s Emporium - the products that they stock will tend to be for the hobbyist.

 

Jon

[AdeMoore]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Antex-SQ8W270-HP80-80W-Mains-Soldering-Iron-/131506472459

 

So is that one dirt cheap Jon? Seen in both Eileen’s and Squires but a pound or five with post dearer.

 Cheers 

Ade