Wantage Tramway No.5 "Jane" or 'Shannon' from the Sandy & Potton Tramway (1850).

[Jon4470]

Ah thanks David of course heard read the term now you say it. Motion bracket that’s it.

I’m also thinking making the motion and cylinders removable, lay a bar between the two motion brackets notched into the top of the two frames I think with a forward tipping motion off it will come having dropped the pin out the connecting rods. Is that worth doing chaps?

Cheers

Ade

 

Hi Ade

I know people who say it’s better to have everything fixed solid and those that say that removable is best. I personally think that the main advantage with removable is that subsequent maintenance (that might require wheel removal and adjustment) is easier.

If you go down the removable route just make sure that things can’t work loose when the loco is running.

Jon

[Guest Isambarduk]

I’m also thinking making the motion and cylinders removable, ... Is that worth doing chaps?

 

I would say that it's definitely worth doing, Ade. 

 

I always build my models in assemblies that I screw together at the end - not so much for anticipated maintenance but because it makes life so much easier when it comes to painting and lining!  See for example my recent build of a Hudswell Clarke 0-6-0DM.  

 

David

[chris p bacon]

I did mine as one lump, the cylinders, rods, slidebars & bracket. I popped a screw up through the middle of the cylinders into a nut which was soldered in the smokebox.

 

 

You only have to take off the crankpin and it drops out.. . . . I say 'only' as if this is easy stuff. . 

[AdeMoore]

I would say that it's definitely worth doing, Ade. 

 

I always build my models in assemblies that I screw together at the end - not so much for anticipated maintenance but because it makes life so much easier when it comes to painting and lining!  See for example my recent build of a Hudswell Clarke 0-6-0DM.  

 

David

  

I did mine as one lump, the cylinders, rods, slidebars & bracket. I popped a screw up through the middle of the cylinders into a nut which was soldered in the smokebox.

 

295.JPG

 

You only have to take off the crankpin and it drops out.. . . . I say 'only' as if this is easy stuff. . 

Cheers David & Dave for the advice, yes of course Dave what was I thinking removing the wrong end of the connecting rod!

I thought I would need to join the motion brackets together for ridgidity, obviously not from your setup Dave.

Thanks for the photo and info.

Cheers

Ade

[chris p bacon]

Once you get above the footplate it'll romp along, you've done better than I did, I had to draw the parts out rather than cut them from plain sheet.

 

Edited August 27, 2018 by chris p bacon

[AdeMoore]

Dave did you cut back or design the etch on the bottom of the motion plate short of the frames so it clears the coupling rods? Can’t quite see in your photo or was the intention to remove those as well to get the motion off. Pencil pointing below.

 

 

Can’t see how to get it off else?

 

Cheers

Ade

[chris p bacon]

Originally I drew them as a complete plate, but when I came to fit them I realised that if I cut the back out and soldered the ends of the slidebars to it, I could have the cylinders, bars and plate as one unit which made it much easier.

 

This was an early version but they proved way too tight and I had to open them out.  I've since had to redraw a P4 version of the cylinders and plates as they still proved too tight.

 

More than anything else you need a'U' section on its side so it can space the bars apart and so you have something to fix to, I wouldn't worry too much about whether it looks prototypical so long as the chassis works, as you see very little under the footplate from usual viewing distance.

 

I must be a real glutton for punishment, as the etches for a 7mm version of Shannon dropped through my letterbox on Saturday. . . oh please lord. . let this be easier. . .  

[AdeMoore]

Originally I drew them as a complete plate, but when I came to fit them I realised that if I cut the back out and soldered the ends of the slidebars to it, I could have the cylinders, bars and plate as one unit which made it much easier.

 

More than anything else you need a'U' section on its side so it can space the bars apart and so you have something to fix to, I wouldn't worry too much about whether it looks prototypical so long as the chassis works, as you see very little under the footplate from usual viewing distance.

 

I must be a real glutton for punishment, as the etches for a 7mm version of Shannon dropped through my letterbox on Saturday. . . oh please lord. . let this be easier. . .  

Cheers Dave I’ve realised this U on its side early on but to get the clearances Ive had to keep easing the slots out. Now I’ve got there the slot is massive compared to your slide bar etch I really want to use. I need to have a think where I’ve gone wrong. These motion brackets will have to be just test pieces unfortunately. I soldered one on temporary to gauge where I am.

Also the cylinder casing is massive compared to your etch for the cylinder cover. Debating reducing its size.

 

 

Good luck with the 7mm version bound to be easier,

[AdeMoore]

Above wasn’t the final filing up the connecting rod slot went lower than the photo above as did the coupling rod not so influential I know.

Two more coming soon!

[chris p bacon]

 Now I’ve got there the slot is massive compared to your slide bar etch I really want to use. 

 

 

Aah but does it work...that's what matters.

 

I found that when I was drawing the parts I had a notion of how much clearance would work, but when I built it I found I'd got it wrong in a few places. It's easy enough to de-solder parts and try again as the plate you'll end up with won't be anywhere near scale as the crankpins and nuts we use are so overscale they throw the rods out on the width.

 

I actually think that building a Pacific with outside valve gear would be easier than this little beauty...but I'm a sucker for her.. ....I've even thought about building a 2nd one in 4mm....  

[AdeMoore]

Aah but does it work...that's what matters.

 

I found that when I was drawing the parts I had a notion of how much clearance would work, but when I built it I found I'd got it wrong in a few places. It's easy enough to de-solder parts and try again as the plate you'll end up with won't be anywhere near scale as the crankpins and nuts we use are so overscale they throw the rods out on the width.

 

I actually think that building a Pacific with outside valve gear would be easier than this little beauty...but I'm a sucker for her.. ....I've even thought about building a 2nd one in 4mm....  

Dave your mad and obsessed! I get you on the overscale thing.

How’s the YouTube footage coming along?

Cheers

Ade

[AdeMoore]

I know these minor updates are a tad useless, but it’s a record of the slow progress and recorded before I delete the photos!

Look what came from China today got 50 so if anyone needs any I’m your man! Just cover the post.

 

 

The motion bracket template was unsoldered the slot is to high by a fair bit and needs dropping a touch but Dave’s slide bars will fit. Now I’ve eyed it up with the piston rod.

Made a start on the new brackets two blanks soldered together.

 

 

 

Not much will be done now, I’ll rephrase that even less will be done now off to Padstow for a week.

Cheers

Ade

[Killian keane]

What volume of Model Railway Journal are you using? Currently I only have a vague drawing from 1905 to work from

[AdeMoore]

What volume of Model Railway Journal are you using? Currently I only have a vague drawing from 1905 to work frompost-4916-0-00381200-1441334180.jpg

Killian, Dave was kind enough to share the relevant pages via an online file share. It’s issues 114 to 123 from memory.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/96567-wantage-tramway-no5-jane-mrj-articles/?hl=%20mrj%20%20wantage?st=0

 

See post 19 on, I’m sure Dave still has them and will oblige if not give me a shout.

Cheers

Ade

[chris p bacon]

What volume of Model Railway Journal are you using? Currently I only have a vague drawing from 1905 to work frompost-4916-0-00381200-1441334180.jpg

 

I'll email you and do a file transfer. 

[AdeMoore]

Motion bracket mark2 and my new bench vice and anvil.

 

Triple laminated template and 2 new motion brackets.

 

Bottom of motion brackets had to come off as advised by Dave to make it removable.

 

My new anvil great for flattening out worked pieces

.

Oh dear! I did know this a while back but got fed up on the cylinders so went on to motion brackets. Drivers left piston lines up with connecting rod, but the right miles out error somewhere.

 

All clamped up for desoldering hair grips useful heat sinks and hold valve chest covers in place when they unsolder due to adjacent heat.

 

Unsoldered enough to realign

 

Resoldering in more correct alignment.

 

Until next time

Cheers

All comments greatfully received.

[Castle]

Hi Ade,

 

First time I have looked in for a while and there has been lots of progress! Perhaps the 2019 RMWEB Didcot tour will see all the Shannon models on this thread meet the real thing?

 

All comments greatfully received.

Excellent work - keep it up!

 

All the best,

 

Castle

[Horsetan]

....Unsoldered enough to realign F41F470E-24AA-467D-8D75-A853C5D9F7FD.jpeg

 

Resoldering in more correct alignment.

4B12CEB1-9820-4349-980A-1ED55FB5224B.jpeg...

All comments greatfully received.

Maybe it's just an illusion caused by your camera lens but, looking at the top, your chassis frames have definitely adopted a banana curvature.

[AdeMoore]

Right nearly a month has gone by, not a lot to report but many things tried and abandoned. Now tonight I found the crucial piece of the jigsaw that I’ve not thought about until tonight means that plan A would of worked and still may do. Plan B could work and I’ve started plan C!

What am I talking about is crossheads and slide bars! But before I bore you with that, folks above joined me in thinking the frames were not true and needed maybe major work.

 

Surprisingly bang on.

 

Dip in middle

 

Bit of a fettle all is well.

 

Then the crossheads, Dave's fine etches a 4 layer laminatons I thought way to tricky for me so I thought solid brass easier. An electrician who’s a modeller always keeps these kinda bits.

 

 

 

Grinding flat

 

Checking even thickness

 

Then I realised I had no saw blade thin enough to make the slots for the slidebars to run in.

So 0.5mm brass as used for the frames, 2 faces with filed rebates soldered together to make the H shape.

 

Filing a shoulder, first by mini drill then by hand

 

It buckled on thining so then clamped on top vice, now doing the other side.

 

Lined up for size, with the right size rebates to fit between slide bars then cut in half for 2 halves.

 

Then the moment of realisation as described in the opening paragraph. I needed the connecting rod to check the boss fits between the 2 halves, oh dear! Far to thin....

So abandoned that and started fetling Dave’s etches! With a view to making the few laminations im missing.

 

So now a few hours later and reflecting I can see version A would work as the slot I can make for the connecting rod boss size all round 3 sides and my mini drill disc will do that.

Version B would be ok probably as The solder in between the halves if applied plenty would more than likely give enough width for the boss.

So there you have it many hours spent getting nowhere.

But first I’m gonna have a go at those etches I was avoiding! I’ve Come full circle.

Any comments advice warmly welcomed.

Until next time.

Cheers

[chris p bacon]

Don't worry, it doesn't get any easier doing one in 7mm. The tolerances are just as tight.

 

I'm not sure if there were enough spares of the crossheads to do a full set.

[AdeMoore]

Don't worry, it doesn't get any easier doing one in 7mm. The tolerances are just as tight.

 

I'm not sure if there were enough spares of the crossheads to do a full set.

Dave no I mentioned I would need make the missing etches, that would be to cut 3 parts one outer and two inner now I’ve checked, I’m gonna have a go.

 

 

Dave did you solder an outer to an inner in say 188 deg then the two inner together with maybe 145 deg?

Or tinned it all and then clamped and went for it in one?

Cheers

[chris p bacon]

Or tinned it all and then clamped and went for it in one?

Cheers

 

 

Hit the nail on the head.

 

I didn't actually tin them, I put clips on them and flooded them with Carrs green then hit it with the iron and solder, I did hold the iron there for quite a while and let the flux bubble away and waited until I could see solder at all edges, I then cleaned them up with a file.   Not much finesse but it worked.

[AdeMoore]

Hi folks 2 months later! Just found it hard to find the time/commit to the motion saga!

Anyway decided to get back to it this afternoon.

Back a bit however I did this, now I’ve checked 18th Oct!

 

 

 

 

8th November soldered an etch part to one of my blanks.

 

 

Let the filing commence.

 

 

So today.

 

 

Found the slide bars are not correct to the crossheads width also the cylinder covers confirm they will need setting wider, am I right Dave?

 

 

Getting to grips with the thicknesses,

 

 

I did think the etches were all half thickness meaning one full thickness would do but then realised Dave wouldn’t of done 4 if that were the case.

 

 

Still learning to solder! To much here, last blank soldered for fetling up.

 

 

So not a lot to show, but we’re moving along.

More soon I hope but will it work when it comes together.

Until next time

Cheers.

[chris p bacon]

Found the slide bars are not correct to the crossheads width also the cylinder covers confirm they will need setting wider, am I right Dave?

 

 

 

Be careful as I did 2 different parts for the cross head, there is a larger one for the outside which has a half etch to the top to create a shoulder, this has the rod/pin hole. There is a second slightly smaller one which is the centre part. They are difficult so don't be surprised if you put them through the window and get a London road models set instead. As I can't cast I couldn't think of anything else to do

 

I laminated 2 sets of the slides but didn't have to alter the width so make sure the smaller crosshead is the internal that slides against them.

 

Dont forget to get meds for this part .....

[AdeMoore]

On 12/10/2018 at 11:14 AM, chris p bacon said:

 

 

Be careful as I did 2 different parts for the cross head, there is a larger one for the outside which has a half etch to the top to create a shoulder, this has the rod/pin hole. There is a second slightly smaller one which is the centre part. They are difficult so don't be surprised if you put them through the window and get a London road models set instead. As I can't cast I couldn't think of anything else to do

 

Dont forget to get meds for this part .....

Meds’ Dave your not kidding! I did have a look at LRM but can’t find anything on their website wholly frustrating website!

The signal box for Barnstaple Quay is coming along slowly in work lunch hours, so I got some enthusiasm to have another crack at the motion on Jane, this has been a real stumbling block I started it last October! But it’s not seen much attention. It’s still not done in case you were thinking I’d cracked it! 

I reckon I’ll have a few more goes during February if I’m still failing I’ll then perhaps see about getting it running. Then if I can get it running I’ll take stock on what I is possible with my current skill set and make it as best I can to get it in paint and finished to that standard.

So the pic’s of yesterday’s attempt.

 

No idea why the photo’s loaded different sizes..

so all all good I couldn’t hair clip it the 4 laminations had a mind of their own!

tried the above with a dress makers pin and a brass rod but the soldering was a disaster.

well ok until I had to reheat it to get the pin out! Is the wood I’m soldering on not helping? The solder just beaded after and the iron wouldn’t pick it up though I’ve kept the tip clean. Ended up with a black mess!

After an hour at it I gave up to go back to it, I haven’t a photo of it now as I had to down tools and head for the medicine cupboard!

until next time 

cheers 

Ade.