Wantage Tramway No.5 "Jane" or 'Shannon' from the Sandy & Potton Tramway (1850).

[Jon4470]

4 hours ago, AdeMoore said:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Antex-SQ8W270-HP80-80W-Mains-Soldering-Iron-/131506472459

 

So is that one dirt cheap Jon? Seen in both Eileen’s and Squires but a pound or five with post dearer.

 Cheers 

Ade

 

Hi Ade

I hope it’s good for the job.....I bought one a couple of weeks ago 

 

For general work I use a 50 watt iron - this is fine for etched brass kits.

I bought the 80 watt iron specifically for soldering to thick brass such as old style chassis frames. These frames are about 1mm thick and a 50 watt iron really struggles with them. I haven’t used it yet though - but I expect it to be reliable.

 

Jon

 

[AdeMoore]

I wonder if a 50w may be the better choice I’ve nothing thicker than 0.5mm to solder to.

not bought it yet still canvassing opinion.

Might just go 80w anyway, I know I’ll be able to be quick then in and out on a joint.

 Cheers 

[Jon4470]

On Tony Wright’s topic a few solder stations have been discussed recently ( last couple of days). Solder stations cost more but give you the ability to control the temperature- so they are what you need if you want to solder white metal as well as brass.

 

The current Antex one is in this link:

 

https://cpc.farnell.com/antex/660a/soldering-station-analogue/dp/SD01909?mckv=sLE6qeuBW_dc|pcrid|224654335881|kword||match||plid||slid||product|SD01909|pgrid|50784539401|ptaid|pla-588765687098|&CMP=KNC-GUK-CPC-SHOPPING&gclid=Cj0KCQjwrdjnBRDXARIsAEcE5YkzAu0ZkqQ2w3oSRgZs7g_aFHXrDHIUm864BbCSlnD6be6HFxQh8MMaAn0EEALw_wcB

 

And another one that was recommended is in this link:

http://www.circuitspecialists.eu/soldering/soldering-stations/csi-premier75w-digital-temperature-controlled-solder-station-with-75w-soldering-iron/

 

Jon

[AdeMoore]

Cheers for that Jon, certainly won’t be the Antex at £102 of our English pounds!

the second one maybe, though my useless iron is probably good for white metal.

food for thought.

Thanks for the info.

[AdeMoore]

 

 

 

So had time and time on returning from my North Wales holiday for another go!

This I cab see is going the same way as the crossheads saga  

Anyway I know you love to see how it shouldn’t be done hence the thread title! 

I managed to make a jig to reconnect the slide bars.

 

 

Then before I bought a new iron as Jon advised I remembered I had this!

 

 

Oh yeah made light work of it but the quick in and out still wasn’t an option, took a bit to melt the solder. I must be doing something wrong as with the slide bars in place, 145 solder touching the iron and slide bar one side, with the iron touch those two and the piston cover plate previously soldered nothing happened until it all came molten. Much drama steering the slide bars cover plate with a lolly stick around the burnt cocktail stick in the piston hole!

still could be the Iron suppose.

 

 

But we get there, as seen above, but to much solder couldn’t control that.

You may notice the previous success on the right cover now gone! It was a weak joint! I gave it a tiny tug before starting the left one and it came away!

 

 

Then unsoldering the etch keeper the bottom bar as we look at it wasn’t a great joint and a little tug came away the above is the result of trying to resolder it  

 

 

Then that I thought i’ll Redo the right one see if I get more success there.

Nope is the answer, the cocktail stick in the piston hole burnt away! And now using the smaller iron when it all went molten I thought oh I can feel the piston hole to centre it up! Ahh no that was just me pushing the piston tube back out the other side! Another 2.5 hours of enjoyment.

Two steps forward and all that, but perhaps with a new iron I’ll get there always learning.

 Cheers for looking in

All comments gratefully received as always.

 Cheers  

 

 

[chris p bacon]

If this gets too difficult there is always the option of some cast brass (lost wax) slidebars and crossheads from London Road models (or similar), they're not quite the right pattern but would do the trick and look ok. 

 

Or for an easier job try juggling knives in a pool full of sharks.......

[AdeMoore]

2 hours ago, chris p bacon said:

If this gets too difficult there is always the option of some cast brass (lost wax) slidebars and crossheads from London Road models (or similar), they're not quite the right pattern but would do the trick and look ok. 

 

Or for an easier job try juggling knives in a pool full of sharks.......

Dave cheers for that!

You got a link to said LRM slide bars I did look last time you mentioned it could see nothing there.

 Cheers 

[chris p bacon]

10 hours ago, AdeMoore said:

Dave cheers for that!

You got a link to said LRM slide bars I did look last time you mentioned it could see nothing there.

 Cheers 

 

I don't think they're on the website, I saw them at a show as John has a peg board of bits and bobs from various kits he'll sell separately.  Drop John an email via the website and he'll get back to you.

 

I'm not 100% sure what kit they came from but they looked about the right size, a friend Robin is modelling her in P4 and using something from LRM, I'll try and remember to message him and find out what.

 

Edited July 20, 2019 by chris p bacon

[AdeMoore]

Cheers for the info. Dave I’ll do as you say.

Thanks for looking in.

 

[AdeMoore]

Dave I did get hold of LRM, John thinks his Jubilee set is the smallest he has and £13 inc. p&p so one I’m keeping in mind! But first..

Can’t bend a dressmaking pin to save my life as Dave did on his build.

Ended up snapping them. So took to the anvil and mushroomed them over. 

 

I’m thinking of making another coffee stirrer jig to make up the motion bracket slide bar assembly.

So first needed to set up the crossheads to gauge what needed to go where.

oh dear!

The crossheads bash on rear of the cylinder block. Possibly grind the rod clamp back. Wondered why Dave used a tube and they supports went inside! Know now..

 

Then I’ve got alignment issues the mushroomed pin and the previously filed crankpin nut clash one side and almost overlap the other! The better side is  where I’ve opened out the piston hole as it was a bit skew, so this is perhaps the solution opening the cylinder holes until I get clearance?

 

 

As always all your comments are welcome.

until next time 

Cheers 

Ade

 

[chris p bacon]

This is the sort of issue I had, the clearance is so tight that every little shave you can do makes a difference.  I was sent a picture a couple of days ago of a near completed example....it's in......(drum roll)..........P4 !

 

I subsequently did a set of cylinders for P4 which were ever so slightly wider which I'll pop in the post to you. They'll help, but don't lose heart it really is tight. 

[Guest Isambarduk]

6 hours ago, AdeMoore said:

Can’t bend a dressmaking pin to save my life

 

They need to be anealed first.  Use a (mini) gas torch heat up the bit, or end, that you need to bend, let it cool down (no need to quench) and then you'll be able to bend it easily.   David

[sir douglas]

this is a problem that has come up in my o gauge locos. even on the prototype, there isnt much space between the crankpin and crosshead, maybe about an inch sometimes. When making my little peckett, i was working from a works drawing ina book and noticed how tight the gap is, to get around the problem of the nut fouling the crosshead i use threaded crankpin bushes which removes the need for the nut but there still isnt much room between them

[AdeMoore]

13 hours ago, chris p bacon said:

This is the sort of issue I had, the clearance is so tight that every little shave you can do makes a difference.  I was sent a picture a couple of days ago of a near completed example....it's in......(drum roll)..........P4 !

 

I subsequently did a set of cylinders for P4 which were ever so slightly wider which I'll pop in the post to you. They'll help, but don't lose heart it really is tight. 

Dave so kind, I made these myself so should be able to move out the holes..

You wouldn’t accept any payment last time I was the lucky recipient of some of your fine work for Jane I’ll repay any costs.

Seen the P4 version on your thread it looks mighty fine. 

I keep coming back to it after lying in bed working out solutions! Or further attempts perhaps I should say.

thanks again for all the support.

 Cheers 

Ade

[AdeMoore]

12 hours ago, Isambarduk said:

 

They need to be anealed first.  Use a (mini) gas torch heat up the bit, or end, that you need to bend, let it cool down (no need to quench) and then you'll be able to bend it easily.   David

Thanks David now I know.

Such a great thing being on here and learning stuff.

 Cheers 

[AdeMoore]

12 hours ago, sir douglas said:

this is a problem that has come up in my o gauge locos. even on the prototype, there isnt much space between the crankpin and crosshead, maybe about an inch sometimes. When making my little peckett, i was working from a works drawing ina book and noticed how tight the gap is, to get around the problem of the nut fouling the crosshead i use threaded crankpin bushes which removes the need for the nut but there still isnt much room between them

Thanks Sam that looks like a great build there. I’ve obviously picked a difficult prototype to start my loco building journey! Threaded crankpin bushes perhaps another thing I should explore.

I think they were mentioned or something similar earlier in the thread by someone.

more soon cheers.

[AdeMoore]

I could always use this image to base the model on and push the notion the skirt went down the sides as well, removed in this photo as it was being moved by no. 7 for maintenance! 

 

Cheers

Ade..

[Ruston]

The easy solution would have been to not have made the cylinders as one block but, instead, to have made them seperate and bolt them to the frames. In that way you can pack them out with shim metal until you get the required clearance. It's what I do with my scratchbuilds. Sure they may end up being over-width but "you wouldn't be able to tell the difference riding by on a galloping horse", as a friend of mine used to say.

[AdeMoore]

25 minutes ago, Ruston said:

The easy solution would have been to not have made the cylinders as one block but, instead, to have made them seperate and bolt them to the frames. In that way you can pack them out with shim metal until you get the required clearance. It's what I do with my scratchbuilds. Sure they may end up being over-width but "you wouldn't be able to tell the difference riding by on a galloping horse", as a friend of mine used to say.

Now see Dave there with that advice is a man who knows what he’s talking about!

Not the fault of Laurie Griffin of the MRJ and his original build instructions.

Just what happens I guess reducing drawings from 7mm to 4mm. 

Great tip though Dave thanks for sharing something I may consider trying, saw the block in three add a back to each cylinder bit then add two sides to the centre bit as the frames are cut away. Two screws to screw it all back together.

Ummm.

 Cheers 

[chris p bacon]

4 hours ago, Ruston said:

The easy solution would have been to not have made the cylinders as one block but, instead, to have made them seperate and bolt them to the frames. In that way you can pack them out with shim metal until you get the required clearance. It's what I do with my scratchbuilds. Sure they may end up being over-width but "you wouldn't be able to tell the difference riding by on a galloping horse", as a friend of mine used to say.

 

I'd not thought of that when I drew it, I tried to retain the look of the large block with the access panels which is so visible from the front. so went down the route of single piece fold up.  I didn't half learn a lot of lessons with this one!  I got it to work ok and there is a piccie on my thread of a recently completed 'Jane' in P4 which is a lovely runner.

[Ruston]

Here's what I mean.  The backplate of the cylinder has a screw soldered in and that screw fits through a hole in the frame, with the nut going on the inside of the frame to fix it. I also put another hole with a pin (length of brass wire) to locate the cylinder at the correct angle. By the way, Dave, I've forgotten what gearbox and wheels I need for Shannon. Please remind me.

That went a bit wrong. I was trying to link to a particular post and picture.

Edited August 31, 2019 by Ruston
Messed up the link.

[chris p bacon]

25 minutes ago, Ruston said:

. By the way, Dave, I've forgotten what gearbox and wheels I need for Shannon. Please remind me.

 

For the motor  and gearbox I used a Mashima 1020 and a High level slimline +, it's a really tight squeeze but possible (page 26, 23rd March 2018 on my thread - or thereabouts)

I'll check what combo Robin has used and put it on my thread.

[AdeMoore]

10 hours ago, Ruston said:

Here's what I mean.  The backplate of the cylinder has a screw soldered in and that screw fits through a hole in the frame, with the nut going on the inside of the frame to fix it. I also put another hole with a pin (length of brass wire) to locate the cylinder at the correct angle. 

Hi Dave I did get it from your original post.

 My description of what I would have to do to achieve this is probably what threw you.

Perhaps a photo.

 

 

As as you can see there are no frames up front to screw the cylinders to.

But I could chop the block into 3 and make 3 compartments if that’s a better way to describe it and as you say shim between each. Still mulling it over!

I would like to think continuing to open out the piston tubes would do it but in reality I’ve the feeling something more drastic is required.

 Cheers 

Ade

 

[chris p bacon]

There is something on its way to you. It gives you another option.....or a headache 

[AdeMoore]

10 minutes ago, chris p bacon said:

There is something on its way to you. It gives you another option.....or a headache 

Thanks Dave, kind chap you are.

I’m sure I’ll manage something.

What do I owe you?

 Cheers