Plastic Locomotive Kits - A discussion and views to the future

[Steamport Southport]

1 hour ago, SD85 said:

An old thread but I will add my opinion that static plastic loco kits are an avenue I would like to see pursued a bit more; that said many of the posts here outline why no manufacturer is likely to produce them.

 

From the perspective of someone whose main interest in modelling centres around locos and who is planning an MPD layout set on the Southern Region in 1967, some more static kits would be a great way to inexpensively fill out the shed scene. I have been finding the Dapol Standard 4 kit to be of some use in this regard; it would have been great if Kitmaster/Airfix had also made a model of the rebuilt Bulleid Pacifics too.

 

Inexpensive though?

 

I think you would be looking at well over £30 for a basic plastic kit tooled to modern standards. Size wise you are looking at the equivalent of an Airfix bomber kit. They're about £30 to £35.

 

Something like this, which is a new tooling.

 

https://www.airfix.com/uk-en/shop/aircraft/military-aircraft/vickers-wellington-mk-ic-1-72.html

 

That's what you are competing with. If you're thinking they would be cheap then I'm afraid you'll be disappointed.

 

 

 

Jason

[Jol Wilkinson]

I don't think that plastic loco kits would/have sold in anything like the same volume as aircraft or military models. With aircraft, unless a modeller builds an airfield diorama, then the hobby is solely about buying and building kits. A railway modeller will spread his budget around a wide range of items and plastic loco kits will be only a small  part of that. Most modellers probably won't be interested anyway.

 

The acid test will be whether Peco reintroduce the Ratio MR locos. They haven't done so yet, possibly because the tender tooling may be damaged. as suggested elsewhere. I expect that the tooling costs are already amortised, so it would be a relatively low cost exercise. The Ratio MR coaches have continued in production, so perhaps the loco kit tooling isn't a viable proposition.

[spamcan61]

10 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Inexpensive though?

 

I think you would be looking at well over £30 for a basic plastic kit tooled to modern standards. Size wise you are looking at the equivalent of an Airfix bomber kit. They're about £30 to £35.

 

Something like this, which is a new tooling.

 

https://www.airfix.com/uk-en/shop/aircraft/military-aircraft/vickers-wellington-mk-ic-1-72.html

 

That's what you are competing with. If you're thinking they would be cheap then I'm afraid you'll be disappointed.

 

 

 

Jason

Plus, the tooling costs will be in the same ball park as RtR for a much smaller market than Airfix Wellingtons so that'll bump the per unit cost up a good bit.

[Steamport Southport]

For some reason I've got the urge to build an Airfix plane kit. 

 

I did buy a few tanks and other vehicles recently, but more looking at them as possible loads for the Warwells and Warflats.

 

 

Jason

[andyman7]

On 08/03/2018 at 17:48, bertiedog said:

Kitmaster managed the moulds as they had other activities, and expanded in a rush, not accounting for the costs that bankrupted them.

Airfix survived as a producer because of a huge range, but then the costs of Uk production got to high.

 

On 23/03/2018 at 09:00, hayfield said:

Look at the history of plastic injection moulding for locomotives, Kitmaster went bust, Airfix the same, Dapol only used existing moulds. Making and supplying plastic wagon and coach kits seem the exception to the rule, but even with the resources of Peco behind them Ratio has not released any rolling stock kits for years (SR bogie utility van years ago). 

Re-reading this thread as it has been resurrected, the pedant in me is required to point out that Rosebud Kitmaster did not go bust - they did overextend themselves with the railway kits, but sold the tools to Airfix and carried on trading, eventually being bought by Mattel. Early UK market Hot Wheels models from the late 1960s are branded Rosebud Mattel.
Airfix did go bust in 1981 but the plastic kit part of the business was profitable, it was Meccano and the protracted demise of the Binns Road empire that did for them. 

Although there have been no new 4mm/00 plastic railway kits for general audiences (as opposed to railway modellers) for many years, no-one has mentioned that Revell has had a number of steam models and at least one diesel (the BR232) offered in recent years, H0/1:87 scale, to make static unmotorised models. 

[Ben Alder]

Done to an extent by the GBL collection - pirates of several RTR offerings and very useful for loco hacking or a static piece. Don't think they did any Southern Pacifics though.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GREAT-BRITISH-LOCOMOTIVES-COLLECTION-1956-BR-4MT-2-6-0-NO-76066/313292137010?_trkparms=aid%3D1110009%26algo%3DSPLICE.COMPLISTINGS%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20200220094952%26meid%3D181d4ae7dd4841cab2ae785e71f2a2fe%26pid%3D100008%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D143347825187%26itm%3D313292137010%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3Ddefault%26brand%3DHornby&_trksid=p2047675.c100008.m2219

 

[SD85]

3 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Inexpensive though?

 

I think you would be looking at well over £30 for a basic plastic kit tooled to modern standards. Size wise you are looking at the equivalent of an Airfix bomber kit. They're about £30 to £35.

 

Something like this, which is a new tooling.

 

https://www.airfix.com/uk-en/shop/aircraft/military-aircraft/vickers-wellington-mk-ic-1-72.html

 

That's what you are competing with. If you're thinking they would be cheap then I'm afraid you'll be disappointed.

 

 

 

Jason

 

TBH I would be perfectly happy with something to the same standard as the current ex Kitmaster stuff and consequently retailing for the same price. Details etc can always be added as needs be.

 

I don't think £30 would be too much to pay for a better quality static model either; that would still be a reasonable price given that Hornby rebuilt Bulleid light pacifics seem to go for £150 and above on Ebay.

[Steamport Southport]

The Rebuilt Bulleids were on the list of unreleased models someone posted in the original GBL thread.

 

It ended early due to fall in demand. I was a subscriber so got them all, plus a couple of extras of the useful ones.

 

This is a list of the ones that didn't get made.   

 

 

 

Jason

[The Johnster]

10 hours ago, SD85 said:

TBH I would be perfectly happy with something to the same standard as the current ex Kitmaster stuff and consequently retailing for the same price

 But a new tooling to the same standard as the current ex Kitmaster/Airfix/Dapol/back-to-Kitmaster stuff would not retail for the same price.  The new tooling would have to be paid for and the retail price would have to take that literally into account, whereas the older toolings were amorted back in the Silurian Era.  
 

My view is that any new loco kits would have to be capable of being motorised in, which means prefabricated metal assemblies for steam outside motion and power bogies for non steam outline.  We are getting into CKD territory now

[tomparryharry]

I could well imagine that the prospect of re-introducing any of the kits would produce a plethora of "why haven't they done this/that/ the other". The 5/- kits would more like £50, because, that's what the market is liable to bear. 

 

It's a lovely idea, and I'm all in favour. But....... 

[The Johnster]

The only possible, I do not claim likely, use for newly introduced plastic kits might be for multiple units, a particularly costly RTR item as completed sets.  A range of  body side panels, and alternative cab roof and marker light details would account for nearly all the 64' high density types, including 116, 118, Bed-Pan/Marylebone 4-car etc, and might include the Manchester/Liverpool Crewe electric sets with alternative cabs, roof mouldings, and Gresley bogies, and could probably be marketed as a box containing enought bits to build one of any of them, with a power bogie, for about £150, a worthwhile saving on RTR.  Having produced a Derby style cab, the 114 and 119 are possible. 

 

Similarly, the 114, 119, 120 and the 1956 Scottish Swindon Inter-Cities share common underframes, as do the 57' low densiity types. Produce a kit for a BRCW 104 and you have an underframe suitable for Park Royals, Wickhams, the early Derby sets, and anything else I'v forgotten  There is scope for kits, I contend, for all the multiple units not yet covered by RTR, and for competing kits for those that are. I know less about current scene multiple units but similar principles apply I would have thought.

 

But I doubt if anyone is going to be in a rush to dip their toes in in the current climate.  It probably needs a company that has not previously been involved with model railways and comes at it from a kit manufacturers' perspective, and I doubt the prospective sales figures appeal to them.  If anyone's reading this, I'd suggest kicking off with a 120, with alternative body sides for Buffet trailer. 

[BernardTPM]

Didn't DC Kits did that, DMUs and EMUs? And Bratchell for the Mk.3 unit family.

[Northmoor]

4 minutes ago, BernardTPM said:

Didn't DC Kits did that, DMUs and EMUs? And Bratchell for the Mk.3 unit family.

Yes, DC covered most of the early types at some time or other.  A kit for the Class 313/314/315/507/508 family wouldn't require too many different bodysides......

[Steamport Southport]

Yes. Some are still available and they're common on eBay. There was a much bigger range than this and included carriages.

 

https://www.dckits-devideos.co.uk/index.php?route=product/category&path=131_224

 

Unfortunately as soon as the RTR manufacturers started making proper DMU and EMUs nobody seemed to want them.

 

 

Jason

[e30ftw]

With the progress of 3d printing, it might be somthing in the future that could make a come back, make your own model with a 3d printed chasis and body components being glued together with optional detail differences between sub classes or era's. Maybe a few standered motors could be used to cover a wide variaity of models to reduce cost.