Class 116 diesel multiple units

[philip-griffiths]

I have an uncle who in 1948 went to work for the newly formed Western Region's Accounts department.  They audited individual station accounts.  The thing was that they travelled by train, so they only travelled to stations that they could get to and back from in a day.  Then my uncle suggested that they went by car and they started to audit many more stations than had previously been audited.  He says that his proposal was unfortunately a trigger for more data on the financial performance of western region branches than had ever been collected and was the death-knell for branches pre-Beeching.

 

The last thing he did before retiring was introduce the system for the computer-printed credit-card sized tickets.

 

regards

 

edit - sorry Chris, off topic again.  

Edited May 16, 2018 by philip-griffiths

[Pteremy]

Off topic? Informatively so!

[dibber25]

Yesterday I had the privilege of looking through some of the late Don Lovelock's photographs. I stumbled across this rather unfortunate 116 at Calne, about top be assisted by a 204hp 0-6-0 shunter D2186. A slow journey back to Chippenham was in prospect! (CJL)

(Also have a shot of a two-car Swindon Cross-Country - brand new, motor coaches presumably running-in on the branch, but thought to have been also a crew-training run. That's off topic however so needs to go somewhere else.)

[Phil Bullock]

That is wonderful photo Chris - many thanks for sharing

 

Did the WR think 03s suitable replacements for pannier tanks?

 

Phil

[br2975]

Yesterday I had the privilege of looking through some of the late Don Lovelock's photographs. I stumbled across this rather unfortunate 116 at Calne, about top be assisted by a 204hp 0-6-0 shunter D2186. A slow journey back to Chippenham was in prospect! (CJL)

(Also have a shot of a two-car Swindon Cross-Country - brand new, motor coaches presumably running-in on the branch, but thought to have been also a crew-training run. That's off topic however so needs to go somewhere else.)

.

That would raise the eyebrows of a few exhibition barrier leaners !

.

Brian R

[dibber25]

That is wonderful photo Chris - many thanks for sharing

 

Did the WR think 03s suitable replacements for pannier tanks?

 

Phil

 

The only freight I ever saw at Calne had a 57XX but Don photographed diesel shunters on the last few freights. Swindon also put the diesel shunters out on the Highworth branch. (CJL)

[The Johnster]

Deisel shunting engines were a break from GWR basic principles, being shunting engines; the GW never designed a loco specifically for this purpose (though they did produce the 67xx/6750 variants of pannier tanks without vacuum brakes and with steam reverse for dock shunting in South Wales and at Avonmouth).  The principle, not stated until Churchward's time but certainly predating that) was that all the locomotives should, if necessary, be able to haul all the trains.  It was this sort of thinking that led to the use of pannier tanks on the first leg of the 'Cheltenham Spa Express' and 56xx on restaurant car expresses between Pontypool Road and Cardiff!  Even the 1361 and 1366 were given steam heating pipes and vacuum brakes, and regularly worked Plymouth and Weymouth boat trains.  

 

The BR built 15xx tanks might be regarded as dock shunters, but were given vacuum brakes and put to work on Paddington-OOC ecs, though this was a response to a desire to give the chattering classes a modern looking loco on the stops at Paddington rather than any practical consideration.  The M7s at Waterloo do not seem to have caused such offence.

 

The WR put up with the speed capabilities of diesel shunting locos over short distances, but ordered diesel electric shunting engines, the PWM series, for per way work so that they could be hauled at normal speeds to work sites; Smith Rodley self propelled cranes similar to the Kitmaster kit but on 8 wheeled rigid chassis instead of bogies had electric traction motors for the same reason.  You can make one easily enough out of the Kitmaster construction kit and any LNER pacific tender chassis.

 

Of course, if a train has failed and has to be recovered in any sort of hurry to clear the line or be available for it's next duty, the best loco to do the job is the one most easily and quickly available!

Edited May 19, 2018 by The Johnster

[The Stationmaster]

That is wonderful photo Chris - many thanks for sharing

 

Did the WR think 03s suitable replacements for pannier tanks?

 

Phil

 

Apologies to Chris for going OT but that would seem to be definitely how Swindon (if not Paddington?) saw them and they became very much the standard branchline trip freight power - for as long as freight traffic survived - on the WR branches around Swindon including Malmesbury to my knowledge as well as those already mentioned by CJL.  Plus, of course, on the loading gauge restricted former BP&GVR lines in the westerly part of South Wales - and probably some other branches as well;  No doubt in some respects Swindon drawing office viewed them as a natural successor to the 16XX panniers in terms of route availability if nothing else.  Their higher speed made them more suitable as branch and trip locos than the slower 350hp shunters although still not fast enough for main line trip work - hence the later D95XX design from Swindon.

 

I've never ridden on, let alone driven, one of them so I haven't a clue how they compared with the panniers but for branchline work I hope they rode better than 350s (which are distinctly uncomfortable above about 12 -15 mph).   Sorry Chris - back to DMUs, and if you wish i will hide this post.

[The Johnster]

My memory of the 08s was that they were very comfortable indeed unless the loco was in motion, at which point one realised that the wheels were triangular, the springs were shock amplifiers not absorbers, and the wheelbase length was measured in a minus value so that the front wheels were actually behind the rear ones; nothing else could possibly ever have accounted for a ride that bad.  A Cardiff Docks driver once told me that he only knew if he was off the road at night in some of the darker recesses because the ride improved...

[br2975]

  A Cardiff Docks driver once told me that he only knew if he was off the road at night in some of the darker recesses because the ride improved...

 

Having negotiated most roads of Tidal from the cabs of several different 350s, I can safely say that anything above 'walking pace' resembles a rowing boat mid-Atlantic in a Force 9.

.

Brian R

[The Johnster]

Having negotiated most roads of Tidal from the cabs of several different 350s, I can safely say that anything above 'walking pace' resembles a rowing boat mid-Atlantic in a Force 9.

.

Brian R

 

Indeed, only less steady.  Typical day booking on at Canton; 'I see the breakdown vans are out'.  'Yeah, they're off the road over the dock'.  'Really?  Have Allied Carpets got a sale on, then?'.

[chrisf]

Give us a break, guys.  I'm writing the next bit as quick as I can ...

 

Chris

[MJI]

Talking about Derby high density stock, why were there some class 125 power cars on the WR in the late 70s, I saw 4

[The Johnster]

Probably temporarily replacing broken down stock; reliability was low in the later 70s, especially 1976 when the hot summer had Canton's 116s dropping like flies.  The Rhymney Valley, with it's long steep banks, was particularly hard hit, and on many evenings service beyond Bargoed was very flaky indeed.  I once spent a day shuttling back and forth between Heath Low Level and Coryton with a set that only had one engine working; when that failed we were fortunately at the Heath end ready to be rescued by a 37.  Desperate times, with the timetable very much 'aspirational'.

[Clive Mortimore]

Talking about Derby high density stock, why were there some class 125 power cars on the WR in the late 70s, I saw 4

Hi Martin

 

Possibly on their last journey to the scrapyard. Kings Cross had been electrified, so had the Braintree branch which only left the Southminster branch left as a regular user of this class, even then some ex NER BRCW units were drafted south and the surplus class 116 from the Kings Cross suburban duties took over on this line.  

[MJI]

Hi Martin

 

Possibly on their last journey to the scrapyard. Kings Cross had been electrified, so had the Braintree branch which only left the Southminster branch left as a regular user of this class, even then some ex NER BRCW units were drafted south and the surplus class 116 from the Kings Cross suburban duties took over on this line.  

 

 

That seems most likely, they were all the same type, one of the power cars

[MJI]

MBS

E51159

E51165

E51168

E51172

[chrisf]

I thought I had the answer to the 125 power car question until I checked the numbers that Martin gave.  Several were made available to the Ministry of Defence in 1978 and 1981 for secret military exercises at Moreton-on-Lugg.  It is amazing what you can find in books.

 

More prosaically, 51159, 51165, 51168 and 51172 were stored at Swindon Works from about March 1978 until they were offered for sale in October 1980.  They were bought by C F Booth at Rotherham and cut up there.

 

While I'm posting, I hope not to keep you waiting much longer for the next bit of the 116 story.

 

Chris

[br2975]

I thought I had the answer to the 125 power car question until I checked the numbers that Martin gave.  Several were made available to the Ministry of Defence in 1978 and 1981 for secret military exercises at Moreton-on-Lugg.  It is amazing what you can find in books.

 

 

Wandering off topic again - work took me to Moreton on Lugg about ten years later, in connection with 'Operation Cider Nightmare' ( anyone else ever involved ?). Where we were involved the ground was littered with spent cartridge cases, riddled cars etc.

.

I was advised 'in no uncertain terms' to keep away from the rolling stock parked up a few hundred yards away !

.

Brian R

[chrisf]

The service cuts of August 1964 were followed swiftly by a revision to the service pattern on the ex-Southern main line west of Salisbury.  A service of dmus was introduced to serve the intermediate stations between there and Exeter, enabling the express service to and from Waterloo to be reshaped and accelerated.  This led to a major reshuffle of dmus.  Some Cross-Country sets were involved but the major players were members of Class 116.

 

July 1964 from Cardiff to Bristol:

 

50820, 50873, 50826, 50879, 59345

50863+59371+50916

 

September 1964 from Cardiff to Laira:

 

50845+59353+50898

50849+59357+50902

50865+59372+50918

 

September 1964 from Reading to Laira:

 

51128+59481+51141 with five 118 sets and a 117 set

 

October 1964 from Cardiff to Laira:

 

50818+59326+50871

50824+59332+50877

50868+59376+50921

 

November 1964 from Cardiff to Laira:

 

50847+59352+50900

50855+59363+50908

50856+59364+50909

50866+59374+50919

50867+59375+50920

 

November 1964 from Laira to Cardiff:

 

50090+59040+50132

50091+59041+50133

59032 and 59034, leaving 51132+51145 and 51140+51153 unaccounted for

 

December 1964 from Cardiff to Laira:

 

50829+59337+50882

50848+59356+50901

 

December 1964 from Laira to Cardiff:

 

50869+50922, formed with 59035 which had been at Tyseley

51139+59033+51152

 

January 1965 from Laira to Cardiff:

 

50087+59037+50129

50089+59039+50131

 

January 1965 from Cardiff to Laira:

 

50835+59334+50888

50838+59346+50891

50854+59362+50907

50857+59368+50910

 

Allowing for the return of the second-class only sets from Laira to Cardiff that represents a net loss of 11 sets from Cardiff.  The moves of four power cars and one trailer do not seem to have been recorded, but for the sake of completeness we should mark the move of trailers 59338 and 59342 to Tyseley in December 1964.

 

While all this was going on, services between Taunton and Minehead were turned over to 116s based at Bristol in September 1964.

 

Coming soon[ish]: a look at the hybrid units used on the ex-SR services in the West Country.

 

Chris

[The Johnster]

As this topic seems to have exhausted itself, can I take the opportunity to both apologise for my drifts off topic, and to thank you for the hard work you have put in compiling and producing what is a very useful guide to 116s in their early lives, with allocations, transfers, and liveries.  We are in your debt, Chris, not for the first time in my case!

[Rivercider]

I thought I had the answer to the 125 power car question until I checked the numbers that Martin gave.  Several were made available to the Ministry of Defence in 1978 and 1981 for secret military exercises at Moreton-on-Lugg.  It is amazing what you can find in books.

 

More prosaically, 51159, 51165, 51168 and 51172 were stored at Swindon Works from about March 1978 until they were offered for sale in October 1980.  They were bought by C F Booth at Rotherham and cut up there.

 

Still off-topic, but here is 51159 at Swindon Works in 1978

51159 Swindon Works 12/11/78

 

edit - and the other three mentioned by Martin, (51168, 51172, 51165 and trailer 59453), were also present and are probably among those in the background

 

cheers

Edited May 31, 2018 by Rivercider

[chrisf]

As this topic seems to have exhausted itself, ...

 

No, it's exhausted me!  There is plenty more to come, I promise.

 

Chris

[The Johnster]

I am very pleased to hear this!  It really is an excellent resource for anyone in the 116 game, and despite the fact that I am no longer so, I have found it fascinating, and educational.  Thanks again as always, Chris!

[MJI]

Still off-topic, but here is 51159 at Swindon Works in 1978

scan0059.jpg

51159 Swindon Works 12/11/78

 

edit - and the other three mentioned by Martin, (51168, 51172, 51165 and trailer 59453), were also present and are probably among those in the background

 

cheers

 

 

I THINK that is where I saw them, school trip

 

What happened to 59453, perhaps I could now underline it?