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At last some new 33s


owentherail
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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi All,

i missed out on the recently released 33,012 in weathered (faded) blue livery.

At the time I was more interested in the weathered construction sub-sector 33,042 variant so acquired one of these instead.

Over the last few months I have been on the look out for 33,012 as I have a rake Rugby cement hoppers which I know it will look just great at the head of, but sourcing the loco was becoming quite difficult.......

The good news was, a certain large retailer in the North West came up trumps with a pre-owned variant that was unused. I ordered this on Monday & it arrived later this week.

Today, was the first chance I had to 'chip this' & I had an old Hornby 8 pin chip so used this & she runs like a dream.

It was also interesting to note that the loco pulled away on speed setting 2 on my Gaugmesater Prodigy advance 2 handset which compared to my other Heljan loco's is quite different as traditionally these have quite a large draw.

The only disappointment - it s now wrapped up & under the Christmas tree so I won't have the opportunity to properly run this until after the 25th.

Oh well, certainly something to look forward to.

IMG_3438.PNG

Edited by CB Rail
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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi All,

I see Heljan are planning to release another Dutch liveried 33/0 example in a weathered condition with 'name plates & crest removed'.

I believe this is a great idea, however inevitably it will come down to the execution.

If anyone is interested the Model No is 3458 with Running No. 33,025.

IMG_3450.PNG

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  • 5 weeks later...
  • RMweb Gold
19 minutes ago, e30ftw said:

Does any one have a pic of an original Heljan 33 compared to the revised 33? I have recently aquired 33065 "sealion" but the cab face dosnt look quite right, is this one of the original releases ?

 

Thanks

I think that was the very first release in the first batch. What catalogue number does it have?

 

Roy

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  • 4 weeks later...
  • RMweb Gold

Any recommendations for which glue to use to stick the aerial pods on the roof?

 

Also possibly what paint colour is a match for them to touch up where they've been removed from the sprue? (Its D6515 so greyish roof)

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On 21/02/2021 at 17:32, Kaput said:

Any recommendations for which glue to use to stick the aerial pods on the roof?

 

Also possibly what paint colour is a match for them to touch up where they've been removed from the sprue? (Its D6515 so greyish roof)

 

I used blue tack. Otherwise Poly cement if you are brave enough not to mess up the paint work while positioning them, or PVA (wood glue) with a risk one might flic off during handling.

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  • 1 month later...

Of all the issues raised with the model, I would have thought that inconsistent liveries should not be one of them.

I have just got 3439 33009 in Dutch to go with my 3452 33026 Seafire model, and the yellow band is a different shade (it is not as obvious in the attached picture as it is in real life)

I know that all manufactures seem to struggle with what colours were used on the Dutch livery, I have a Dapol 73, the Heljan 33, some Hornby and Lima Seacows, Hornby Rudd and Dapol Turbots and Grampus, and they all have different shades of grey and yellow on them. But the same loco from the same manufacture having different paint colours is poor in my book.

33009 will have to be returned, but does anybody know if 3433 33002 or 3436 33047 has the same shade of yellow as the 33026 model.

 

1286078024_33Dutch.jpg.be41e413780e82cea637eeeceeb9bb8a.jpg

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1 hour ago, Gray69 said:

Of all the issues raised with the model, I would have thought that inconsistent liveries should not be one of them.

I have just got 3439 33009 in Dutch to go with my 3452 33026 Seafire model, and the yellow band is a different shade (it is not as obvious in the attached picture as it is in real life)

I know that all manufactures seem to struggle with what colours were used on the Dutch livery, I have a Dapol 73, the Heljan 33, some Hornby and Lima Seacows, Hornby Rudd and Dapol Turbots and Grampus, and they all have different shades of grey and yellow on them. But the same loco from the same manufacture having different paint colours is poor in my book.

33009 will have to be returned, but does anybody know if 3433 33002 or 3436 33047 has the same shade of yellow as the 33026 model.

 

1286078024_33Dutch.jpg.be41e413780e82cea637eeeceeb9bb8a.jpg

33002 has a totally different shade of grey to any of them seen on the right 33047 is on the left 

IMG_9jwds4.jpg

Edited by London Southwark
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7 hours ago, Gray69 said:

Of all the issues raised with the model, I would have thought that inconsistent liveries should not be one of them.

I have just got 3439 33009 in Dutch to go with my 3452 33026 Seafire model, and the yellow band is a different shade (it is not as obvious in the attached picture as it is in real life)

I know that all manufactures seem to struggle with what colours were used on the Dutch livery, I have a Dapol 73, the Heljan 33, some Hornby and Lima Seacows, Hornby Rudd and Dapol Turbots and Grampus, and they all have different shades of grey and yellow on them. But the same loco from the same manufacture having different paint colours is poor in my book.

33009 will have to be returned, but does anybody know if 3433 33002 or 3436 33047 has the same shade of yellow as the 33026 model.

 

1286078024_33Dutch.jpg.be41e413780e82cea637eeeceeb9bb8a.jpg


Out of interest, do people ever get grief when they contact the shop to return a loco on such spurious grounds?  I must admit if I ran a shop I’d struggle to stop the occasional “are you kidding me” slipping out......

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5 hours ago, aureol40012 said:


Out of interest, do people ever get grief when they contact the shop to return a loco on such spurious grounds?  I must admit if I ran a shop I’d struggle to stop the occasional “are you kidding me” slipping out......

 

I will tell you in a couple of days.

 

If this was a model costing a couple of quid, I wouldn't mind. But I will have given Heljan suppliers the not inconsiderable sum of £250 for these locos.

All the pictures I have of these magnificent machines from the 90's show that they all seem to be in the same livery. The wrong livery stands out like a sore thumb with these locos. There should be a look of uniformity about them, which is completely ruined by them been different colours. When people complain that the roof detail isn't quite right, the fuel tank is wrong, the grills are too big, these are things that you need to examine the loco closely for, but the wrong livery is very visible from across a layout.

For the money, I do not expect that every time I see the 2 locos working together to feel a pang of disappointment that it doesn't look right. I have neither the time, the expertise or the willingness to possibly ruin an expensive purchase to rectify what is a basic error. I am sorry if this is a bit harsh, but isn't a realistic layout what most of us strive for.

 

The model was ordered with other items, so the seller hasn't lost out on sending the item. As there is nothing else wrong with the model, I expect to see it for sale as new soon after it is returned.

 

11 hours ago, London Southwark said:

33002 has a totally different shade of grey to any of them seen on the right 33047 is on the left 

 

 

Thanks for the info. It looks like a double headed Dutch combo might be out of the question for now :(

Edited by Gray69
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Livery does seem an odd peculiarity in the UK.

Ive several models of both European and US heritage, where different manufacturers seem to not have the same issues, Germany especially seems to agree what DB red looks like.

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On 10/04/2021 at 21:10, Gray69 said:

Of all the issues raised with the model, I would have thought that inconsistent liveries should not be one of them.

I have just got 3439 33009 in Dutch to go with my 3452 33026 Seafire model, and the yellow band is a different shade (it is not as obvious in the attached picture as it is in real life)

I know that all manufactures seem to struggle with what colours were used on the Dutch livery, I have a Dapol 73, the Heljan 33, some Hornby and Lima Seacows, Hornby Rudd and Dapol Turbots and Grampus, and they all have different shades of grey and yellow on them. But the same loco from the same manufacture having different paint colours is poor in my book.

33009 will have to be returned, but does anybody know if 3433 33002 or 3436 33047 has the same shade of yellow as the 33026 model.

 

1286078024_33Dutch.jpg.be41e413780e82cea637eeeceeb9bb8a.jpg

Out of curiousity have you a picture of the same Two 33's working together in Real Life,ive had a quick search and found a Picture of 33019 and 33026  multiple working  and their Liveries do look ( to my eyes ) different.

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  • RMweb Gold

Here is your exact pairing in real life... 33009 and 33026 in Dutch.


(not my image / fickr url).

They'll Do...

note 009.. Grey sole bar, higher yellow band (look at the engine room windows), and note it is more pale than 33026.

 

Edited by adb968008
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4 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Livery does seem an odd peculiarity in the UK.

Ive several models of both European and US heritage, where different manufacturers seem to not have the same issues, Germany especially seems to agree what DB red looks like.

 

The thing is, once a mistake on colour has been made how far can it go?

 

For example, Dapol messing up the ends of the TPE 68s. Should AS make their mk5s suit that or real life? Real life is what I believe they are doing, and should be, but it will then clash with the loco pulling it perhaps?

 

Likewise Hornby's GBRF blue problem. Do they just stick with it and have people not buy locos because of it, or put it right which A) acknowledges the problem which normally isn't a good thing in terms of having to then warrant an issue and B) then will inevitably lead to those with other GBRF locos saying "it doesn't match"?

 

It is a strange one, although I do also think part of it could be to do with how the colour is done. If for example they get a livery colour from the TOC in RGB/hex (which is normally how marketing/whoever will decide what colours to use in my experience), and they need to provide a RAL code to the factory for them to buy the paint, then that's a can of worms in itself as 99 times out of 100 there won't be a visible match if the original colour wasn't chosen with a particular paint in mind. From my work I know it can be a minefield matching colours and the best way to do it sometimes is to get a match against the actual panel itself.

 

OTOH isn't that what livery samples are for?

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It will be interesting to see how the forthcoming weathered dutch 33025 looks. The sample model showed quite a bold yellow shade when the real loco had a more faded, washed out yellow for the period modelled at the turn of the century. I've also noticed the middle bodyside warning flash appears to be in the wrong position (it should be to the right of the engine door and lower down) so hopefully they'll fix this on the production run.

 

I really hope Heljan improve their factory weathering, especially around the cab front. Some of the weathered models from last year looked awful.

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9 hours ago, TomScrut said:

 

The thing is, once a mistake on colour has been made how far can it go?

 

For example, Dapol messing up the ends of the TPE 68s. Should AS make their mk5s suit that or real life? Real life is what I believe they are doing, and should be, but it will then clash with the loco pulling it perhaps?

 

Likewise Hornby's GBRF blue problem. Do they just stick with it and have people not buy locos because of it, or put it right which A) acknowledges the problem which normally isn't a good thing in terms of having to then warrant an issue and B) then will inevitably lead to those with other GBRF locos saying "it doesn't match"?

 

It is a strange one, although I do also think part of it could be to do with how the colour is done. If for example they get a livery colour from the TOC in RGB/hex (which is normally how marketing/whoever will decide what colours to use in my experience), and they need to provide a RAL code to the factory for them to buy the paint, then that's a can of worms in itself as 99 times out of 100 there won't be a visible match if the original colour wasn't chosen with a particular paint in mind. From my work I know it can be a minefield matching colours and the best way to do it sometimes is to get a match against the actual panel itself.

 

OTOH isn't that what livery samples are for?

I think the answer is far more simple..

 

I think its a case of :

a. Cost.. getting it right, takes more time, care, samples, ultimately cost.

b. Good old British “That’ll do”.


Glammed up in 2021 as “Minimum Viable Product”.

 

Most British manufacturers of all industries are guilty of this, its a mix of American & European influences, that means we want better but squeeze the cost ultimately which ultimately leads to thinking shorter term than both...

 

A could example could be highlighted in Roco..  its drive system of 1980 still stands the test of time today, they got the weight / ration, motor and smoothness dead on back in the 1970’s.. its levels of detail are improved, but ultimately acceptable in 2021. Hornby has gone from X04 to Ringfield to complete tooling replacement on many models in this time frame, only now picking up in the importance of weight with metal body parts.

Both companies have had highs and lows, perhaps if Roco adopted a bit of British short-termism its situation in Europe might be better, similarly if Hornby had adopted a bit of European R&D it may have been spending much less on tooling now... Thats why I hail Piko so much now.. it seems to have adopted better parts of both cultures.

 

For me the Heljan 33 is a bit of both... its fantastically well detailed, finished.. I love it, the finesse is one of Heljans best models but long term  some errors exist on the roof in particular that could have been ironed out, and may some day be its downfall.

Edited by adb968008
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5 hours ago, adb968008 said:

I think its a case of :

a. Cost.. getting it right, takes more time, care, samples, ultimately cost.

b. Good old British “That’ll do”.


Glammed up in 2021 as “Minimum Viable Product”.

 

The first part of my post was meant more what to do once the mistake has been made rather than to not make it in the first place.

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30 minutes ago, TomScrut said:

 

The first part of my post was meant more what to do once the mistake has been made rather than to not make it in the first place.

My point is, if everyone used the correct match, there shouldnt be a “mistake”.

 

Afterall the colour is the colour.

 

Look at the Hornby thread where GWR locos in BR Green perennially get a washed out green compared to the excellant render of Bulleids... yet BR Green was BR Green... LNER locos too get a different interpretation of BR Green... thats all within 1 manufacturer in the same year.

 

Imho an independent model club of reasonable stature should take on a consultative mantle of colour standards.. agree it across a subsection of the hobby, and make it available to all manufacturers to use... problem solved.

 

i’m surprised there isnt a British “Morup”, the UK isnt even in Morup.. before or after EU...indeed its the lack of any “body” that lead us by accident into NEM vs NMRA standards in the UK.

 

it could regenerate a bunch of sales in older product lines too, as it gives chance to refresh / standardise collections, if there was some kind of a UK standards, rather than leaving it to manufacturer interpretation, which leads to “get away with it” behaviour that could be beneficially to all avoided.

 

 

Edited by adb968008
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4 hours ago, adb968008 said:

My point is, if everyone used the correct match, there shouldnt be a “mistake”.


Getting a typically glossy colour to look right on a matt/semi gloss model with what is probably a completely different type of paint won't be straightforward, but it should be achievable with enough effort.

 

 But I was more thinking how would the market escape the situation they are in without questions being asked and people whinging? What's done is done.

 

OTOH, in the case of NR, they can't decide what colour to paint their stuff looking at some of their stock together so what hope do the manufacturers have?

 

 

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1 hour ago, TomScrut said:

OTOH, in the case of NR, they can't decide what colour to paint their stuff looking at some of their stock together so what hope do the manufacturers have?

 

 

Goes back to my point,,

 

 I think its a case of :

a. Cost.. getting it right, takes more time, care, samples, ultimately cost.

b. Good old British “That’ll do”.

 

applies to all forms of life in the UK.

Edited by adb968008
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