Advice for someone thinking of starting modelling American

[k-59]

There really wasn't much of a used diesel market until at least the mid 60s. Before that the diesels class ones were getting rid of were early designs that had reached the end of their useful lives. Often the locos would be traded in for new units and some parts might be reused. There were some exceptions to this of course. For example the New Haven sold off a number of their 44 tonners with one ending up in Trinidad of all places. 

 

There was a bit of a used steam engine market in the 40s and 50s but I don't think many short lines partook. But the Interstate Railroad did buy 2-8-8-2, 2-8-0, and 2-8-2s in this period as one example. http://www.interstaterailroad.net/id66.html

 

The Interstate then dieselized completely with RS-3s from ALCO. There were good number of short lines who dieselized without EMDs, partly because EMD was over booked with orders from bigger railroads. But also a fair number who were able to secure EMDs like the Aberdeen & Rockfish. Some lines went with one or two types in one order as the Interstate did, or a number of smaller orders and different types like the Aberdeen & Rockfish  (Which even had a cab unit, a rarity for a short line.) Some even had locos from different builders like the MN&S which started with a few FM switchers, then finished dieselizeing with Baldwins including the very rare center cab. They then got EMDs for second generation power. 

[steve1]

I'm wondering if it might worth pinning this thread in the US section permanently, given the huge amount of useful information it contains, as a primer for anyone considering coming over to the Dark Side.

 

Any agreement?

 

steve

[Gilbert]

There really wasn't much of a used diesel market until at least the mid 60s. Before that the diesels class ones were getting rid of were early designs that had reached the end of their useful lives. Often the locos would be traded in for new units and some parts might be reused. There were some exceptions to this of course. For example the New Haven sold off a number of their 44 tonners with one ending up in Trinidad of all places. 

 

There was a bit of a used steam engine market in the 40s and 50s but I don't think many short lines partook. But the Interstate Railroad did buy 2-8-8-2, 2-8-0, and 2-8-2s in this period as one example. http://www.interstaterailroad.net/id66.html

 

The Interstate then dieselized completely with RS-3s from ALCO. There were good number of short lines who dieselized without EMDs, partly because EMD was over booked with orders from bigger railroads. But also a fair number who were able to secure EMDs like the Aberdeen & Rockfish. Some lines went with one or two types in one order as the Interstate did, or a number of smaller orders and different types like the Aberdeen & Rockfish  (Which even had a cab unit, a rarity for a short line.) Some even had locos from different builders like the MN&S which started with a few FM switchers, then finished dieselizeing with Baldwins including the very rare center cab. They then got EMDs for second generation power. 

Good point Steve

[Gilbert]

I'm wondering if it might worth pinning this thread in the US section permanently, given the huge amount of useful information it contains, as a primer for anyone considering coming over to the Dark Side.

 

Any agreement?

 

steve

Good point Steve

 

and  the rest of you can ignore my previous post - gross incompetence...

[Allegheny1600]

Thanks again Everyone.

 

Team tracks sound interesting so will look into these, as I know very little about American railroads this is all new to me so bear with me if I don't understand some of the terminology etc.

 

Very useful information there, my first layout will really be a tester layout to get the hang of things American, I will model it as realistic as possible but I'm not over worried if I get one or two things wrong.

 

As for short lines, I find these very interesting and I'm hoping to model one, I might have to model it in the 70's or 80's but using 50's-60's rolling stock, would that be more realistic?

 

Thanks everyone again for taking the time to help a new American modeller.

 

Jerry.

We do like helping newcomers to this subject!

A little while back, I wrote a short piece on the language used 'over there', here it is for you;

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/131821-glossary-of-na-model-and-railroading-terms/

Cheers,

John.

[Patrick SPF]

Many of the Class 1 railroads in the past leased / sold surplus or out dated power to various short lines and there are a number of models which are "classic" short line locos in the early diesel era the Bachmann 44tonner being the most common, as they were in a class where less crew were required and as many industries liked locos in this class they were relatively cheap to buy.

[davefromacrossthepond]

Not to change focus, but a 1950s era layout set in an urban industrial setting would allow small switchers (SWs or NWs) from Class 1 railroads switching 40 foot cars on small radius track. Walthers, City Classics or DPM could provide structures.

[BR60103]

EMD is Electro Motive Division of General Motors.

EMC (or EMCC) is the Canadian division. I think it was also called DD. 

These were the manufacturer of the F, E, GP and SD series. also the SW and some other switchers.

 

Alco (American Locomotive Company) was the most successful of the steam loco builders in the diesel market. (got that?). They made the FA and PA series and S switchers. Also RS/RSD Road Switchers Designs built by Montreal Locomotive Works in Canada.

 

GE is General Electric. I don't understand their model numbers.

[Chris M]

I find this site to be quite interesting as it has lots of photos sorted in different ways.

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/railroadList.aspx?tid=3

[298]

I'm wondering if it might worth pinning this thread in the US section permanently, given the huge amount of useful information it contains, as a primer for anyone considering coming over to the Dark Side.

 

Any agreement?

 

steve

As long as whoever reading it actually knows what they want to model....instead of just thinking they'd like to try something American/Canadian/Mexican/Cuban, etc. If you're after something generic then I'm sure Life-like* will sell you a train set or Anoraks will swap a one of those purple denominations for six pre-loved freight cars, but choosing a location and era is a different matter. Even copying someone else's layout plan as they could do with yours or mine from the March Continental Modeller won't necessarily translate into a different place and time or give the builder the same impetus.

 

(* other manufacturers are available)

[Jerry1975]

Thanks for your replies.

 

I have really enjoyed reading about the railroads and all of your posts, I'm currently gathering information on the buildings, vehicles etc that would be appropriate for the era 60's-70's.

I am very grateful for all your help so far and encouragement and links to relevant sites etc.

 

Also I am currently researching different types of freight traffic, how they were handled etc.

 

Jerry.

[doctor quinn]

Thanks for your replies.

 

I have really enjoyed reading about the railroads and all of your posts, I'm currently gathering information on the buildings, vehicles etc that would be appropriate for the era 60's-70's.

I am very grateful for all your help so far and encouragement and links to relevant sites etc.

 

Also I am currently researching different types of freight traffic, how they were handled etc.

 

Jerry.

[doctor quinn]

In the 60s and 70s a lot of freight was still handled in boxcars for instance bulk grain with the doors dammed up with boards, lumber was loaded board by board.

 

For "atmosphere" you could do worse than watching old drama series that were filmed at the time like Starsky and Hutch

Edited March 25, 2018 by doctor quinn

[Regularity]

Some useful posts of late in Chris van der Heide’s Algoma Central Blog, http://vanderheide.ca/blog/, where he talks of “data via the details”, e.g. cast iron wheels (with the ribbed rear faces) were outlawed from interchange service (but could be used internally) in 1958.

Well worth a visit.

It would be remiss of me not to mention my good friend Trevor Marshall, a fine modeller and great Canadian, with his S Scale Canadian National layout of the Port Rowan branch, http://themodelrailwayshow.com/cn1950s/. The subject, location and scale may not be of interest to you, but his approach and thought processes are fascinating. Word of warning, there’s a lot to read and even at a few posts a day, it will take you several very enjoyable months to catch up!

[dave1905]

 

GE is General Electric. I don't understand their model numbers.

 

They aren't too hard.  The original "Universal" series was pretty easy.  U for the series, a two digit horsepower, and a letter for the wheel arrangement.  U30C was a 3000 hp 6 axle engine.  U18B was an 1800 hp 4 axle engine.  The "dash" series were the wheel arrangement, the two digit horsepower and the series of the engine.  A U23B was a 2300 hp 4 axle in the Universal series.  A B23-7 was a 4 axle 2300 hp engine in the 7 series.  A C44-9 was a six axle 4400 hp engine in the dash 9 series.

[dave1905]

In the 60s and 70s a lot of freight was still handled in boxcars for instance bulk grain with the doors dammed up with boards, lumber was loaded board by board.

 

 

Actually in the 60's and 70's grain cars had paper grain doors.  There were very heavy paper "doors" that covered the lower 4-5 feet of the door opening and had three or more  strips of steel banding built into them.  The steel bands are nailed to the door frames.  To unload you simply take a knife and cut the paper.

 

 

By the early 1980's the only major locations that used boxcars for grain were in Canada and Mexico.

Edited March 25, 2018 by dave1905

[D9020 Nimbus]

You might find looking at http://vtwi.org/VTWIMuseum/Indianola/Indianola.html worthwhile— it's a detailed account of the operation of the Rock Island's Indianola branch in Iowa in the 1970s (later UP, now closed).

[sjgardiner]

EMD is Electro Motive Division of General Motors.

EMC (or EMCC) is the Canadian division. I think it was also called DD. 

These were the manufacturer of the F, E, GP and SD series. also the SW and some other switchers.

 

A correction, in Canada, the Canadian division of EMD was the General Motors Diesel Division (GMD or GMDD, normally GMD) in London Ontario. 

 

Hence why locomotives like the GMD-1 that were Canadian built are referred to as GMD and not EMD.

 

Stephen

[Oldddudders]

EMC - Electro Motive Corporation - was the name before it became part of GM.

[Jerry1975]

Hi Everyone.

 

Thanks for your help and advice etc, cutting paper to unload boxcars is interesting and some very useful information on the website links posted too.

 

I found the Rock island branch very interesting.

 

Is there much difference between the U.S. Way of doing things to Canadian?

 

Jerry.

[runs as required]

I have an ex- colleague (a terribly well connected wayward old old Etonian) who makes a good living out of leading expensive cultural tours around less known bits of the good old US of A .

I suggested that he lead a tour to the town ?Matera? that became an 'art work' in the Texan pan handle (which has an ossifiied failed rail link down across the border)

But he says he makes most money leading Tin-Tin SE Asia style "lost cities" expeditions up into the abandoned flamboyant Art Deco urban areas of the rust belt lost in verdant re- growth.

A semi derelict 'short line' in high summer might make a rich 4x5 ft subject for a layout with lots ofromantic detail.

dh

[davknigh]

Hi Everyone.

Thanks for your help and advice etc, cutting paper to unload boxcars is interesting and some very useful information on the website links posted too.

I found the Rock island branch very interesting.

Is there much difference between the U.S. Way of doing things to Canadian?

Jerry.

There are subtle differences in terminology, Canadians call a caboose a van and of course there’s the weather up here. There are also differences in details on the locomotives which are also weather related in the form of snow shields, winterization hatches and vertical steps but switching is switching so from that point of view they are similar.

 

Cheers,

 

David

Edited March 25, 2018 by davknigh

[Regularity]

Is there much difference between the U.S. Way of doing things to Canadian?

Jerry.

They tend to be more polite.

Until WWII, there was still a massive amount of traffic between Canada and the U.K., but Canadian railways operated essentially to the same rules and practices as those in the USA.

[Regularity]

There are subtle differences in terminology, Canadians call a caboose a van

Not just Canadians, for that, though. Van was also used on some lines in the USA, and others called them ‘cabs’ or cabins. And then there were the ruder nicknames...

 

...but it’s a fourgon* conclusion that everyone knows what you mean by caboose. Van is, as far as I know, never used to mean boxcar.

 

* Truly awful pun.

[Chris M]

The Rock Island Line (which was a mighty fine line) was one of the few that named some locos. I have a model that carries the number 4345 but it has an incorrect name. I must get round to giving it the correct name as it must be one of the best names given to a loco.

See http://www.arkansasrailroadhistory.com/ROCK-named/ROCK-named-diesels.html for a list of named locos