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Regency Rails - Georgian, Williamine & Early Victorian Railways


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48 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

EDIT: I assumed the presence of the Peeler suggested it was a cop shop in the basement. Kevin suggests a pub.  If the latter, it is certainly Colon-appropriate!

 

According to "London Remembers",

Quote

The base of the monument was first used as a police station and then as a pub.

so right on both counts.

 

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3 hours ago, Hroth said:

Part of the building still exists but is appallingly  neglected

Yes, neglected somewhat!  - just part of the bottom half of the front wall around the entrance door exists. Can only see it nowadays due to the removal of some avertising hoardings a few years back.

 

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14 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Geology is a major factor. Where there is stable rock and plenty of headroom, conventional tunnelling - cutting a drift - came naturally to people such as the Stephensons, with their mining background. Cut and cover wasn't an option at Kilsby Tunnel!

 

image.png.f8eb26ddaddfbd7031df0603fa754cb6.png

 

I'm sure J.C. Bourne must have had some baroque Nativity in mind when he painted that.


After it flooded during construction Robert tried to drain it with a sough (drift).  Standard older mine drainage option where topology allowed it.
 

It got dug but collapsed and was blocked by sand and therefore did not aid the emergency drainage.

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On 20/03/2020 at 14:33, Caley Jim said:

I have almost finished reading David Hamilton's recent book on the early locos of the Caledonian Railway.  William Barber Buddicom is mentioned several times as he was brought in by Locke to work on the GP&GR and then went with him to the Edge Hill Works of the GJR and was closely involved in development of what became known as the 'Crewe Type'.  From there he went to France with Locke in 1841 and they set up the firm Allcard Buddicom et Cie, first with works at Chertreux, which had no rail connection, and in 1845 moving to Sotteville, just outside Rouen and adjacent to the line.

 

Jim

Only just acquired a copy of David Hamilton's Caledonian book, and can recommend it to a wider readership, for three reasons. 

There are a number of valuable early photographs showing stations and trains, not just locos, there are plenty of drawings of early locos, some of which could have graced Boulton's Sidings, including the Class 136 0-4-0 well tank with a central flycrank, and the author goes, in detail, into fundamental design features, such as frames, brake and springing, which are applicable to most early locos.

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7 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

I see there is an heretical statement in the blurb for Volume 2:

 

the significant changes in design introduced by Dugald Drummond and optimised by his successors!

 

How is this heretical?  It is a statement of fact.  Lambie and early McIntosh locos were simply a continuation of the Drummond design, enlarging and improving as train weights increased.  The various Dunallastair classes were acknowledged as among the best, if not THE best, 4-4-0s of their time.

 

Jim

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2 hours ago, Caley Jim said:

How is this heretical?  It is a statement of fact.  Lambie and early McIntosh locos were simply a continuation of the Drummond design, enlarging and improving as train weights increased.  The various Dunallastair classes were acknowledged as among the best, if not THE best, 4-4-0s of their time.

 

Enlarging, not necessarily improving. Drummond achieved perfection with his medium-sized 4-4-0s of the early 80s - first the 476 Class for the North British and then the 66 Class for the Caledonian. Any change from this pinnacle of perfection (forced by changed operating circumstances) produced a slightly less perfect locomotive. Which is not to say that the first Dunalastairs (one l) weren't very good engines - better than the subsequent classes which pushed the formula too far. Drummond himself ran into the same problem of scaling on the LSWR.

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I haven't had time to listen to all of it, but I will do. I went past Invicta every school day for seven years when it was on its plinth by Canterbury's Roman Wall so I have a soft spot for the beast.

 

Two things I did pick up during my quick skim through was that there is an one eighth scale model of Invicta in its original condition and that the wheels it currently stands on most likely came from a late nineteenth century scrapyard and that it originally had wooden wheels.

 

The question I always have though is was Invicta asked to do too much for the capabilities of an 1830s locomotive or was it just a poor engine. The gradients on the Canterbury and Whitstable were fearsome, it was after all initially surveyed for rope haulage on the main climbs, so did any other locomotive of the period have similar challenges? The Clowes Wood incline on the C&W was 1 in 31, the climb out of Whitstable harbour, which is where Invicta was expected to work was 1 in 53. By comparison the steepest incline on the Liverpool and Manchester was 1 in 89.

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I made time to watch it, and was totally fascinated by the study. In the commentary the point was made that Invicta was only used on the longest fairly level stretch between the inclines, which remained rope worked by stationary engines. They had entertained the hope that it would be able to work the northernmost incline, and save on the cost of a stationary plant, but it was found to be beyond Invicta’s capabilities.

Then there’s Edward Fletcher, his close association with the engine, the model made of the original, and his friendship with Cudworth. Without that, the remains would have been scrapped at Ashford in Victorian times, and we would be left with nothing.

Edited by Northroader
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The point was also made that while George Stephenson recommended three stationary engines, the C&W directors initially installed only the engines on the Clowes Wood incline and the Tyler Hill incline (1 in 46) and expected Invicta to pull trains from Whitstable to the foot of the Clowes Wood incline. Only when poor Invicta failed to cope with the loads expected did the C&W directors purchase the third stationary engine.

 

Another difference between the C&W and the Northern lines Stephenson previously worked on is that the trucks leaving Whitstable harbour were loaded, they weren't empties going back to the collieries

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2 hours ago, Northroader said:

Then there’s Edward Fletcher, his close association with the engine, the model made of the original, and his friendship with Cudworth. Without that, the remains would have been scrapped at Ashford in Victorian times, and we would be left with nothing.

 

It's ironic that none of Cudworth's engines survived despite his long service with the South Eastern Railway. Apparently when the last of his, very numerous, 2-4-0 passenger engines was withdrawn in the early 1900s the workers at Ashford petitioned the SER board to have it preserved. Sadly their request was turned down.

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As also mentioned in the original Conference thread the publication of Early Railways 7, the papers from the 2021 Conference can now be ordered via the RCHS website. Subscribing now saves money, and will guarantee you are able to obtain a copy.

 

Delivery expected during Q3 of this year. 

 

The full details and ordering options are on line at - https://rchs.org.uk/early-railways-conference-combined/ 

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On 10/02/2022 at 16:56, john new said:

As also mentioned in the original Conference thread the publication of Early Railways 7, the papers from the 2021 Conference can now be ordered via the RCHS website. Subscribing now saves money, and will guarantee you are able to obtain a copy.

 

Delivery expected during Q3 of this year. 

 

The full details and ordering options are on line at - https://rchs.org.uk/early-railways-conference-combined/ 

A reminder that the deadline for pre-order/subscription copies is next Tuesday. There will only be a small number of extras printed. If you haven't already ordered the details are at https://rchs.org.uk/early-railways-conference-combined/ 

 

Posted on behalf of the organising team.

Sponsors the SLS, Newcomen Soc, ICE and the RCHS.

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Are there any scale drawings of the L&B Bury 0-4-0 loco in 4mm available anywhere? I have the 2-2-0 in the 19th Century Railway Drawings in 4mm book.

 

Edit: I guess the two are similar enough that the drawings of the 2-2-0 could probably be used for the 0-4-0?

Edited by Fair Oak Junction
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Or:

https://archive.org/details/railwaysgreatbr00whisgoog/page/n612/mode/2up

 

This is Google books scan of Francis Whishaw's Railways of Great Britain and Ireland written in 1842. It's got some inspiring drawings in pages 600 or so on as well as contemporary reports of all the railways operating or under construction in 1840-42.

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