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Regency Rails - Georgian, Williamine & Early Victorian Railways


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2 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

Radio 3 is currently marking today's anniversary of the opening of the Stockton & Darlington Railway with a piece by Micheal Nyman, written for the opening of a TGV line. There must surely be more appropriate music?

 

1825, Schubert & Darlington: 

 

https://youtu.be/QkgICN1QUhI

 

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48 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

1825, Schubert & Darlington: 

 

I particularly like the most recent comment on youtube, "Brendel’s tempo really conveys the feeling of torment in this sonata".  I suppose that might convey the feeling of being transported by chaldron wagon.....

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18 minutes ago, Hroth said:

 

I particularly like the most recent comment on youtube, "Brendel’s tempo really conveys the feeling of torment in this sonata".  I suppose that might convey the feeling of being transported by chaldron wagon.....

 

The stentorian coda in the opening movement of D845 might suggest the pounding of Locomotion along the rails!

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1 hour ago, Edwardian said:

 

1825, Schubert & Darlington: 

 

https://youtu.be/QkgICN1QUhI

 

 

I think it was the last sonata, D960 in B flat, of 1828, that Brendel played the only time I ever heard him, at Reading Town Hall on his final UK tour in 2008 - one of those now-or-never choices, all other commitments set aside. I also heard him speak - he stopped in the first movement to reprove a lady in the stalls for persistent coughing. 

 

We're homing in on the date, here. What might the band have been playing, on the day? - assuming there was one.

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There’s really only one tune to open a railway to, Handel in 1745, to celebrate an historic Jewish victory, but shamelessly purloined ever since as a salute to the onwards march of puffer trains, and remember, there’s only another month to go!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BKxBfy_mh4k

 

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3 minutes ago, Northroader said:

There’s really only one tune to open a railway to, Handel in 1745, to celebrate an historic Jewish victory,

 

 

Certainly played at the opening of the Liverpool and Manchester but at the arrival of the Duke of Wellington, not of the trains.

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On 21/03/2018 at 16:15, Killian keane said:

Speaking of plateways, heres 'St David' from the Tredegar Ironworks, built 1831, a scale drawing does exist of this one

post-29975-0-12481200-1521648920.jpg

 

As a general comment on these very early locos, there seems to be no concept of “workplace safety”; crews work on open, moving platforms without handrails, in immediate proximity to hot cylinders and moving parts. 

 

Another general comment is that the next generation of locos would increasingly feature aesthetic, polished curved surfaces and a generally high degree of finish. I’ve seen it stated that this is due to the practices of manufacturers accustomed to producing machinery for the textile industry, where the product was fragile and vulnerable to rips and snags - although I don’t know if this is true.

 

These early locos, though... they very much look like things made in a blacksmith’s shop at a mine ..

 

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1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Certainly played at the opening of the Liverpool and Manchester but at the arrival of the Duke of Wellington, not of the trains.

 

Indeed, See how the conqu'ring Heri-i-i-i-i-o comes was customarily played for Duke. 

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On 26/05/2019 at 15:15, Edwardian said:

 

There do seem to have been some odd choices and there is plenty that one could be critical about.  I can quite see from the results how a debate might have been won and lost between the stated aim of the museum to illustrate the region's history, and the wish to create a Disney version with rides.  

 

One can start with the choice of name - waggonway. Whatever it is, the exhibit appears to be a railway, not a plateway, and certainly not a waggonway. 

 

I found the "Great Shed" a magnificent building.  It is a gift to a modeller building a freelance layout set in "the Earlies".  It is, as I say, a Magnificent Invention.  I can only assume that a replica of Hackworth's Soho erecting shop was out of the question for some reason or other. I do not know the date of the erecting shop. It could be as early as the building of Royal George in 1827, but for all I know it might have been a product of the 1830s or '40s.  Some research required, I feel. 

 

323475441_DSC_6781-Copy.JPG.1a640b5a8d7c94c6bded9b2358575f9c.JPG

 

There is a tension between the idea of an 1825 mineral railway and passengers.  The locomotives are replicas of colliery railway locomotives.  I include Locomotion in that, as it was of this ilk as one of four 0-4-0 colliery types that first saw service on the S&D. The S&D soon went over to six-coupled mineral engines of the Hackworth type. 

 

As such, the motive power would be perfect for chuffering about with early chaldron wagons, but the colliery lines did not have passenger services.  The models are part of a display at North Road, Darlington.

 

1614328676_DSC_6731-Small.JPG.8991ead5101b4a883f4c89b091a8ee02.JPG

 

The Stockton & Darlington did have at least one loco-hauled coach in the early days.  I believe Beamish has a replica, though it was not in evidence when I visited.

 

2110382893_DSC_6716-Copy.JPG.3ed779372334918881ccb8029fb5f9cd.JPG

1690756707_SDRPassengerCoach01.jpg.43749f6b28588c6b79d2e4fc2da6e39e.jpg

 

Generally, however, for the 1820s the contemporary passenger service was a horse-drawn stage coach mounted on railway wheels. 

 

1946649697_DSC_6748-Small.JPG.841547c2c6c085089a194d2538746553.JPG

 

When the S&D passenger service went steam throughout, which I seem to recollect was not until 1833, a rather different locomotive would have been used, and we have looked at the early S&D coaching engines before.  

 

1366660999_SDRNo.43Sunbeam.png.97816405acc6cae368b8ebc210e032d5.png1309989764_SDNo.9Globe.jpg.351a1c3640af542afded7c68a49c1674.jpg

 

That brings us the coaches.  These I rather liked, though the First/Second Composite was rather lurid.  

 

DSCN0238.JPG.7aaa19c8825691772596b283ffc2c49e.JPG

DSCN0236.JPG.c63d1fa5b8cd5f52ceeeb00f6438ae0f.JPG

DSCN0235.JPG.1190918ef222b06a154a9c406083720d.JPG

 

These are surely attempts to represent the Stockton & Darlington's coaches of 1835, as depicted in line drawings on display at North Road.  They are out of the stated period of the "waggonway" by a decade, but that underscores the difficulty of providing a passenger ride based on an era not known for steam-hauled passenger trains!

 

It can be seen, the Beamish coaches do not exactly conform to the line drawings.  I think the cream coach was originally an open vehicle, and was probably not intended to be a copy of the second Class Merchant coach. 

DSC_6777.JPG.94e70671b0240624f99fecba0f4840c4.JPG

DSC_6776.JPG.08dfaa69709fabf41499d0c98284c8a6.JPG

 

Engaging though the waggonway was, I daresay it could have been a little more coherent and a little more honest within the confines of what the Museum was trying to achieve.  Still very much recommended, and I do love the Great Shed, even if it is a pastiche; it's a brilliant one. 

 

564527759_DSCN0266-Copy.JPG.2f1ead1f69384fa866f01e838be8782b.JPG

1655738606_DSCN0186-Small.JPG.4309ecc79e39ddd17873cbaff1522559.JPG

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Couldn’t resist this, in context..

 

 

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There’s an interesting thread in progress at present regarding the “Midland in Tewkesbury” on our web. A model is being progressed by the talented Mr. Tricky of the goods branch to riverside wharves, but some of it was formed by the original branch line opened by the Birmingham and Gloucester in 1840, thereby qualifying as suitable for inclusion on this thread, and I feel worth a look as an original branch line from the “classic” era, albeit horseworked at first. There’s a link to the Tewkesbury Historical society, where you can link in to an 1880 map of the site, but if you follow subsequent posts there’s a lot of information on the original station, the building to me looks like a miniature Bristol Temple Meads, and the whole set up forming a very small neat little branch terminus.

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/145479-midland-in-tewkesbury/page/4/&tab=comments#comment-3665605

 

Edited by Northroader
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1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Certainly played at the opening of the Liverpool and Manchester but at the arrival of the Duke of Wellington, not of the trains.

Here’s an account of that opening which refers to the presence of the Duke, but going on to say that it then formed a tradition for playing at subsequent openings, with or without the Duke. A dig through the records will confirm this, but I’m too idle to do this for now. There’s also a charming account by Fanny Kemble of her experiences, rather good, even commenting she was able to understand George Stephenson!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opening_of_the_Liverpool_and_Manchester_Railway

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8 minutes ago, Northroader said:

I always thought your study at Compound Towers looked like this:

 

 

I needed more shelf space:

 

933932704_StrahovLibraryTheologicalHall.jpg.ced88f33e8df109bef2a39925377ebdd.jpg

 

The eventual plan is for the railway to run down the middle but I need to get the ceiling repainted first.

 

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20 hours ago, Northroader said:

There’s an interesting thread in progress at present regarding the “Midland in Tewkesbury” on our web. A model is being progressed by the talented Mr. Tricky of the goods branch to riverside wharves, but some of it was formed by the original branch line opened by the Birmingham and Gloucester in 1840, thereby qualifying as suitable for inclusion on this thread, and I feel worth a look as an original branch line from the “classic” era, albeit horseworked at first. There’s a link to the Tewkesbury Historical society, where you can link in to an 1880 map of the site, but if you follow subsequent posts there’s a lot of information on the original station, the building to me looks like a miniature Bristol Temple Meads, and the whole set up forming a very small neat little branch terminus.

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/145479-midland-in-tewkesbury/page/4/&tab=comments#comment-3665605

 

545079823_Tewkesburystationphoto.jpg.b75c0a6618bf9bb51b723738d8f76145.jpg

 

Tewkesbury's 1840 station has a lot of potential as a micro-layout. The station layout was just a short run-around loop with a goods spur down to the docks.

 

Plans of the station building are in the public domain, and suitable locos and rolling stock are available: the Bachmann Norris loco, Killian's 0-4-2 Sharp goods loco, Chris Cox's Birmingham and Gloucester / Midland wagons. The station was both imposing and tiny - dimensions from the Bristol Mercury of 14/12/1839:

Platform: 133 feet long by 12 feet 6 inches wide                                   H0: 18.3 x 1.75 ins

Roof with glazing: 166 feet long by 32 feet wide                                    H0: 23 x 4.4 inches

Station frontage along the High Street: 38 feet                                      H0: 4.7 inches

 

An 1884 Ordinance Survey map shows just how small (and urban) the station was, although most of the track plan is hidden under the roof canopy:

 

1340634559_TewkesburyOS1884.jpg.47791a27dccc95176bd07a4ef69dd650.jpg

 

My own plan for a scale-length 3.5 mm micro-layout of the station (horse-drawn spur to the wharf on the left, steam-powered branch to the main line on the right):

 

2108121483_Tewkesburylayoutplan.jpg.62e021e31140bfce1be4d9feb6698ca7.jpg

 

I might build it one day, although that's not a Do-or-Die-in-a-Ditch promise. I'll be happy to help in any way I can if someone else wants to have a go at it.

Edited by Ian Simpson
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On 22/10/2018 at 21:45, Nearholmer said:

That top one is very elegant, and interesting, although I think that the draughtsman may have been down the pub during the lesson about drawing the intersections of cylinders (I remember being at the lesson, but not the content!).

 

I had to learn that as an engineer involved in pipeline construction. It goes like this;

1) find the necessary components 

2) find the pipefitter

3) keep out of the way while he does it! 

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Early Mainline Railways 2nd Conference - Proceedings book

 

EMLRC2 –the last chance to order and save is approaching! (The Conference was held in 2018) The book of the conference is now almost ready for print - this your last chance to subscribe at the substantially reduced rate of £36 (plus p&p). You will find the details at https://rchs.org.uk/early-railways-conference-combined/ on the RCHS website.

 

Obviously not a book about modelling early railways but covering a range of elements relating to the prototype during the period covered by this thread.

 

The next conference will be in Swansea during June 2021 with the call for expressions of interest in presenting papers due out this coming January.

 

 

The Early Railways, and Early Mainline Railways serials of conferences are now combined. Next is in Swansea in June 2021, as stated, then near Darlington (Date/venue TBC) in 2025 for the obvious reasons surrounding the S&D bi-centenary.

 

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On 27/09/2019 at 12:39, Northroader said:

There’s really only one tune to open a railway to, Handel in 1745, to celebrate an historic Jewish victory, but shamelessly purloined ever since as a salute to the onwards march of puffer trains, and remember, there’s only another month to go!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BKxBfy_mh4k

 

On the opening of the railway from Machynlleth to Newtown, passengers on the inaugural train entering Newtown "found themselves passing under triumphal arches, to the clang of church bells and the blare of bands.  On the leading engine rode the young Marquis of Blandford playing 'See the Conquering Hero Comes' on the cornet-a-piston." (The Story of the Cambrian, by C.P. Gasquoine, 1922)

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On 07/05/2018 at 09:05, runs as required said:

NEW  TRANSPORT  NETWORKS

The  thought occurred to me the other day (while thinking about the potentially chaotic mingling of driverless computer controlled vehicles with “white van drivers” on ordinary roads that such a dangerous mix must also have threatened at the start of the C19 railways.

 

1  A segregated Network

 

Starting first with roads and canals: Turnpike Trusts consolidated through the C18 with Parliamentary Powers (and using free Poor Law Parish workhouse labour) to construct all-weather roads which travellers and carriers could use by paying tolls at the Toll gates or houses.

From 1752 the new canals, because they were waterways, obviously could not double as roads unless elaborately contrived like Amsterdam. Financed by aristocrat land owners or Industrialists like Wedgwood using Parliamentary powers, canal companies similarly charged private boat-owners tolls but also owned and operating their own boat fleets.

They already were half-way to being like railways.

 

The 1821 Act for the Stockton and Darlington allowed, like a toll road, for a railway that could be used by anyone with suitably built vehicles on payment of a toll. The line would be closed at night, and land owner developers within 5 miles could connect branches to the line and make junctions.

post-21705-0-55952000-1525679674.jpg

It seems the S&D opened with a mix of horse and steam traction and vehicle owners. It was initially subject to delays behind slow horses (only partially alleviated by horses being made to ride downhill on dandy wagons) and due to mechanical breakdowns,

This didn’t get solved until the S&D decided to buy out the different coach companies in August 1832, substituting instead a passenger and small goods service between Stockton and Darlington on 7 September 1833, travelling at 12–14 miles per hour.

By this time George Stephenson had already advised the Liverpool and Manchester to operate a more co-ordinated railway.

Thus it was that we inherited a railway controlling both the fixed infrastructure and the means of propulsion until post nationalisation.

I wonder whether similar new organisations will prevail with computerised transportation – or some ‘private owner’ classes will emerge.

 

2 The Transport

 

But was the concept of a Stephensonian locomotive hauling a substantial train so clear until Rocket demonstrated its potentials at the Rainhill Trials?

A good many of the early experimental steam projectiles including other Rainhill competitors looked more like sporting gentlemen’s light phaetons, mere provocateurs, along with Trevethick’s “Catch me who Can” exhibit at Euston, not serious heavy haulers.

post-21705-0-91989800-1525679755_thumb.jpg

 

At Rainhill only Rocket and Hackworth’s Sans Pareil look in anyway ‘tractionised’. Novelty has a look of gentlemen serving themselves breakfast at speed from a heated sideboard; Perseverence apparently embodied the parentage of a steam road coach

 

post-21705-0-19155700-1525679847.jpg

 

So might the railroad have taken off in a different direction? Although the main justification for the L&M was king Cotton, roads were already effectively speed-capped.The segregated railway could run fast more safely. A steam-coach on rails could offer high speed.

Gentlemen in flashy fast broughams might race each other in sporting contests.

All accidents in waiting...

In the event Rocket delivered a much more effective railway than most expected. Long trains of both goods and people could travel at known speeds and times -  even eventually enjoying breakfast at speed – still a Novelty even today!

dh

 

In response to this, having come late to t’thread... 

 

I have a choir named Sans Pareil; based near Darlington... a few years back we worked with Making Music and BBC radio 3 and a composer. He was fascinated by our name, and set the rainhill rules and regulations to music. I can confirm that they do not lend themselves immediately to being sung, but the project was interesting and exciting! The music was in 5 movements, named after the 5 main protagonists. 

 

Memories return... nurse, the sedatives! 

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