Regency Rails - Georgian, Williamine & Early Victorian Railways

[Guest]

What a superb loco, and a fantastic video showcasing it! Top marks to the team who built such a awesome replica!!

 

I love it, and it shows that the world NEEDS more early steam locomotives!

 

- Alex

 

Also it was great seeing it move that brick of a diseasel locomotive with ease!

[Killian keane]

Some of Mr Buddicoms famed Crewe type 2-2-2s (which actually originated at Edge Hill)

[Nearholmer]

That top one is very elegant, and interesting, although I think that the draughtsman may have been down the pub during the lesson about drawing the intersections of cylinders (I remember being at the lesson, but not the content!).

[Killian keane]

That top one is very elegant, and interesting, although I think that the draughtsman may have been down the pub during the lesson about drawing the intersections of cylinders (I remember being at the lesson, but not the content!).

I understand its an 1843 vulcan for france, a very early engine with piston valves

[runs as required]

I had the good fortune to be levered out by Edwardian last Saturday (13/4/2019) to explore the route of the former Brampton Railway in Cumbria. 

Perhaps the line is best known for putting the Stephenson’s “Rocket” to work at the end of its life before being stored away in a shed at the works until it was adopted as a national relic by the Science Museum. 

The Brampton system of waggonways originates before the Newcastle & Carlisle (itself an early starter opened between 1835-38). They were introduced at the behest of the C18 Earl of Carlisle. http://www.cumbria-railways.co.uk/brampton_railway.html

 

Ship canal?

The initial concept was for a full size ship canal running east/west across the Tyne Gap, with canals feeding down to it at Brampton from the (wet) Cumbrian fells and waggonways running down on the north eastern "Dry Side" (as the LNER used claim). Straightforward tipping onto colliers was then planned for direct export to London and the Baltic - eliminating the Tyneside Keelmen.

So what happened to the ship canal idea we asked someone living on the site of Brampton Town station?

“The dowager Countess flatly refused to have a Ship canal pass through her newly landscaped gardens around the Howard family’s ancestral home at Naworth Castle , Brampton” we learned. 

Thus the N&C came to be built instead higher up the south side of the valley, bypassing Brampton and the Howard’s interests but intersecting with the Earls’ line at what became Brampton Junction. 

 

Project interventions by decree

As great landowners (Castle Howard in Yorkshire, Morpeth in Northumberland, fashionable tracts of London and close relatives of the Cavendish family) the Earls neither had to bargain ‘wayleave’ rentals nor seek Acts of Parliament. They simply decreed and their Agents’ duty was to implement in the traditional command hierarchy. 

[over a Cumberland sausage and mash lunch, below framed photos of 1900s Volunteer bands in the Howard Arms, Brampton, Edwardian with his army background - plus frustrations as a tenant of the Rokeby Estate, set out for me the aristocratic hierarchical tradition of raising ‘voluntary’ yeoman armies.]

That explains how extensive branch lines were laid over the north facing fells of the North Pennines above the Tyne Gap then abandoned or modified in surprisingly short order as the economics of coal and mineral extraction and export (and the production of coke) fluctuated widely right through to the mid 1930s post Depression recovery years – before ending with the 1947 Nationalisations of coal mining and railways

 

Permanent way and lineside structures

The Earls’ Agents through the early developmental years of railways were constantly relaying trackage using evolving technologies. They were early users of wrought iron rail in place of short cast iron fish bellies spanning between stone blocks. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brampton_Railway

Another interest to me was that for the Earls’ waggon way/railway and for his Estate farm buildings the Agents used identical building technology and details; they probably used the same gangs of workmen.

Distinctively different structures designed by civil engineers characterised the C&HPR built across Derbyshire from Cromford to Whaley Bridge stand out from the surrounding vernacular.

Nevertheless on the BR it was noticable how Edwardian’s  social hierarchy explanation over lunch was evident in the details meted out to work buildings, workers cottages (simple small fenestration, doors etc), foremen: sash windows, Colliery Agent (or line engineer) classical copy book doorway, elegant fan lights and bay windows.

 

 

The highlight of the walk was our exploration of the Earls’ former railway works at Kirkhouse, closed since the 1950s. It was hard to recognise because it was now a very large no-nonsense intensively worked farm complex. Only a clock on the front wall of a single storey cottage (and a bell at the rear) gave away the former use of the large building group.

Edwardian gallantly rescued and re-united a tiny lamb with its mum (together marked 89) over a barbed wire fence while we were trespassing down a farm track around the back of the old works onto the mainline and the site of a short lived set of coke ovens.

dh

Edited April 17, 2019 by runs as required

[Edwardian]

A Grand Day Out, and a great write-up.  Thank you to DH for his erudite companionship.

 

Kirkhouse, 25" to the mile, 1899 Revision ...

 

[Nearholmer]

All very entertaining, educating, and informing.

 

Does "Bog Coke Ovens" mean "the coke ovens adjacent the bog", or was the coke somehow a bog product ..... roasted turf perhaps?

 

I'm curious, because my interest in narrow gauge railways has taken my off down all sorts of side-alleys around the history of commercial exploitation of bogs, and the surprising range of things that have been made from or extracted from peat over the years.

 

EDIT: Well, one google later, I now know of Thomas Everrit, who wrote a short treatise on the making and use of "bog coke" in 1839. The process actually sounds rather like the making of peat briquettes. Your works might have been doing something very interesting!

Edited April 17, 2019 by Nearholmer

[Edwardian]

DH has pointed out what a great project Kirkhouse would be as a layout. 

 

Go a little west of the maps and you have the junction with the Newcastle and Carlisle mainline. On the map, the line serves a sand pit, a gas works and the coke works to the north of the line, followed by, to the south, the Brampton railway works, which merges seamlessly into a North Country farmyard, as DH has noted. 

 

Then, the line passes under a road bridge and up an inclined plane.  Locomotives went up and down the incline when necessary, and, I expect, regardless of where on the line they generally worked, the Works provide an excuse for any of the Railway's eclectic collection of locomotives to visit.

 

   

[Allegheny1600]

 

 

 

On 21/03/2018 at 12:33, sem34090 said:

Also, are we restricted to only steam locomotives? Are stationary steam engines and other sources of propulsion permitted? I think perhaps some of the very earliest railways could perhaps be discussed... pre-grouping covers a period of roughly 4, 539, 999, 905 years! I read a very interesting article on Roman and Greek railways not so long ago, probably linked to by Kevin (wouldn't surprise me!) in another thread.

 

Hello All,

You mention the very earliest railways - well, trackways actually.

How about circa 700BC? 

https://sidirodromosblog.home.blog/2019/02/17/the-journey-begins/

John.

 

[Edwardian]

Three early locos on the Brampton were, as DH says, Rocket, yes the Rocket, Belted Will, a Kirkhouse Works production of c.1838, and Loch, of 1848, also thought to be a Kirkhouse build, in this case to Stephenson's long boiler patent. 

 

A modern 'artist's impression' of Rocket and Belted Will, circa 1840, by Sid Barnes:

 

 

 

A modern drawing of Belted Will:

 

 

 

A modern drawing of Loch: 

 

 

 

 

[Edwardian]

4 hours ago, Allegheny1600 said:

Hello All,

You mention the very earliest railways - well, trackways actually.

How about circa 700BC? 

https://sidirodromosblog.home.blog/2019/02/17/the-journey-begins/

John.

 

 

Fascinating, John, and many thanks for posting.  Following the links through to Wiki:

 

Ancient railway

 

According to the British historian of science M.J.T. Lewis, the Diolkos represented a railway, in the basic sense of a prepared track which so guides the vehicles running on it that they cannot leave the track. Measuring between 6 km (4 mi) and 8.5 km (5.3 mi), remaining in regular and frequent service for at least 650 years, and being open to all on payment, it constituted even a public railway, a concept which according to Lewis did not recur until c. 1800. Also, its average gauge of around 160 cm (63 in) is similar to modern standards.

 

However, a close examination of the excavated tracks may give a more differentiated picture. While there is agreement that the grooves in the eastern part were cut deliberately into the stone slabs to guide cart wheels,[43] those in the western section are interpreted by some authors as a result of wear or do not appear at all. On the other hand, the marked cambers of this road section may point at deliberate tracks as well. Generally, varying forms of the grooves can also be explained by the long period of operation of the Diolkos, during which modifications and repairs must have significantly changed the appearance of the trackway.

 

It seems to me I've read about Roman urban roads using stone channels for cart wheels?

 

[Nearholmer]

There are certainly distinct ruts in some of the streets at Pompei, along with stepping stones for pedestrians to cross. It struck me when I saw them that the ruts might be the result of wheel-wear being forced to become highly localised, because of the presence of the stepping-stones, rather than 'design features', but I'm a transport engineer, not an archaeologist.

 

The stepping stones were apparently provided because the streets, which have quite high kerbs, became very filthy, which isn't great for the wearers of sandals and long robes.

[laurenceb]

They were an early traffic calming measure.

[Edwardian]

Returning to Kirkhouse, as DH points out, it looks like nothing so much as a farm, and, indeed, I believe that it was, but it was gradually colonised by a railway works!

 

Hopefully this composite, showing the functions of the various buildings and including some B&W pictures (1952) and some colour pictures from out walk, will give a better idea of the site. 

 

[Killian keane]

this photo might be of interest here,  its one of the earliest if not the earliest photograph showing any kind of railway, it shows Cheltenham shed about 1848, with Star class Polar Star, Pyracmon class Alligator and Sun class Javelin standing to attention by the turntable, Alligators tender has had to be turned separately as the turntable was too small diameter

[Compound2632]

Is the photographer and technique known? Daguerreotype or calotype?

[Killian keane]

32 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

Is the photographer and technique known? Daguerreotype or calotype?

not to my knowledge no Im afraid

 

[Welchester]

Do you know the source of the photograph please?

[Killian keane]

23 hours ago, Bishop of Welchester said:

Do you know the source of the photograph please?

http://lightmoor.co.uk/books/the-broad-gauge-engines-of-the-great-western-railway/L8368

[Killian keane]

Heres a fantastic shot which came to me with no backstory, I would surmise its either the Stephenson centenary in 1884 or S&DR 100 in 1925, I have no idea as to the identity of the loco on the extreme left behind what is presumably Derwent 

[Edwardian]

51 minutes ago, Killian keane said:

Heres a fantastic shot which came to me with no backstory, I would surmise its either the Stephenson centenary in 1884 or S&DR 100 in 1925, I have no idea as to the identity of the loco on the extreme left behind what is presumably Derwent 

 

At a guess, Stockton & Darlington 50th celebrations, 1875

 

 

 

Edited May 13, 2019 by Edwardian

[Edwardian]

Sticking with the Stockton & Darlington, I recently found out where this bridge had been hiding ......

 

 

Built at West Auckland by Stephenson in 1823, and situated between two inclined planes, it was not designed for locomotives, and, as the line closed in 1856, I doubt it was ever crossed by one. 

 

 

The importance of Quakers as sponsors or railways came up recently.  As the most obvious example to my mind is the Pease family, whose mining interests lead to their promotion of the Stockton & Darlington, I looked to find a picture of the Joseph Pease statue in Darlington.  Not finding one to hand, I snapped another one in the May sunshine. 

 

[Northroader]

The locos in the S&D 50th anniversary display are listed here:

 

http://www.railcentre.co.uk/RailHistory/Stockton/Pages/StocktonPage5.html

[Northroader]

Ho, hum, win some, lose some:

 

https://www.gettyimages.ie/detail/news-photo/model-of-gaunless-bridge-stockton-darlington-railway-plaque-news-photo/90759959?adppopup=true

 

Edited May 23, 2019 by Northroader

[Edwardian]

26 minutes ago, Northroader said:

Ho, hum, win some, lose some:

 

 

It would be wonderful to suppose that this pioneering bridge saw loco-hauled traffic, but I suspect that the weight of locomotives, even of the 1820s, might have proved too much for it. I had supposed that the fact that the bridge lay between the rope-worked inclines at Etherley and Brussselton, would also make the presence of a locomotive improbable.  I think it likely that trains would have been horse-hauled between the two inclines, with locomotives taking over only the other side of the Bruusselton ridge, i.e. on the Shildon side.  It anyone has definite information ....

 

There exists a cautionary tale concerning the reliance upon the placing of model locomotives upon model bridges by museum staff .....

 

Stephen Middleton, the carriage restorer, once told me that his father had built a model of one of the Bouch metal viaducts on the South Durham & Lancashire Union Railway.  It was later donated to the NRM.  Mr Middleton was surprised to see it on display there graced by a North American locomotive.  When he questioned this, he was assured by the staff that this was correct; such a trestle viaduct was obviously American.