Rails of Sheffield/Dapol/NRM Announce OO gauge Stroudley A1/A1X

[Edwardian]

An A1X boiler should have the dome further forward than the centre line of the tank water fillers. I

 

 

 

I agree.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if the twelve rivet variant was done by the LB&SC when converting to A1X.

 

Yes, I think that might also be correct.  IIRC, all 3 A1Xs announced were converted under the LB&SC.

[IWCR]

Re:  "Side Tank Rivets"

These are actually nuts on studs which secure the tank covers over the actual tank side.

The tank cover was used with lagging to give some insulation to the tanks in the days of feed heaters and cross-head driven pumps.

The feed heater was the pipe coming back from the smokebox to the tank each side with a vent at the top of the tank.

Later in the days of injectors lagging removed but the covers were retained.

I think 12 studs was the as built arrangement, over the years some were removed or broken hence variations,  as always a dated photo of a specific loco is needed to check what is right for any individual engine.

 

Pete

[Ian J.]

...as always a dated photo of a specific loco is needed to check what is right for any individual engine.

 

Pete

 

My thoughts exactly, and seemingly moreso with the Terriers.

[Edwardian]

Re:  "Side Tank Rivets"

These are actually nuts on studs which secure the tank covers over the actual tank side.

The tank cover was used with lagging to give some insulation to the tanks in the days of feed heaters and cross-head driven pumps.

The feed heater was the pipe coming back from the smokebox to the tank each side with a vent at the top of the tank.

Later in the days of injectors lagging removed but the covers were retained.

I think 12 studs was the as built arrangement, over the years some were removed or broken hence variations,  as always a dated photo of a specific loco is needed to check what is right for any individual engine.

 

Pete

 

Agree they're not rivets.  The cladding they affixed seems well represented by the new model.

 

I take issue with the comment that they were originally 12 bolts.  There were originally 8. This can be seen clearly on numerous as-built and early condition photographs.  All 3 A1s chosen by Rails should have 8 bolts, not 12.

 

The earliest example of 12 bolts I have seen is a photograph of 659, Cheam, in Brighton Works in 1908, still in IEG with her name on the tank, albeit the livery is completely trashed and she is no doubt about to receive umber.  I suspect the extra bolts had just been added.

 

Aside from that, the earliest you tend to see 12 bolts is on the first A1X rebuilds from 1911.

[Wickham Green]

Agree they're not rivets.  The cladding they affixed seems well represented by the new model.

 

I take issue with the comment that they were originally 12 bolts.  There were originally 8. This can be seen clearly on numerous as-built and early condition photographs.  All 3 A1s chosen by Rails should have 8 bolts, not 12.

 

The earliest example of 12 bolts I have seen is a photograph of 659, Cheam, in Brighton Works in 1908, still in IEG with her name on the tank, albeit the livery is completely trashed and she is no doubt about to receive umber.  I suspect the extra bolts had just been added.

 

Aside from that, the earliest you tend to see 12 bolts is on the first A1X rebuilds from 1911.

There's no reason why the number of studs should relate to whether the loco is an A1 or rebuilt to A1X - though a change MIGHT have taken place whenever rebuilds were undertaken at Brighton. Don't forget the locos were built over quite a number of years so the original stud pattern MIGHT have evolved and the tanks WOULD have been swapped - among SOME locos anyway - during their often lengthy lives ................. YEP - PHOTOS NEEDED as always.

[Edwardian]

There's no reason why the number of studs should relate to whether the loco is an A1 or rebuilt to A1X - though a change MIGHT have taken place whenever rebuilds were undertaken at Brighton. Don't forget the locos were built over quite a number of years so the original stud pattern MIGHT have evolved and the tanks WOULD have been swapped - among SOME locos anyway - during their often lengthy lives ................. YEP - PHOTOS NEEDED as always.

 

I have sought to restrict my comments to the 6 versions chosen by Rails, rather than to comment upon every possible variant. 

 

I did not say 12 bolts were only seen on A1Xs.  I cited Cheam in A1 condition with 12 bolts in 1908, though otherwise the earliest pictures I have seen date from the LB&SC's A1X conversions.

 

With Rails's selection, I believe 8 bolts to be correct for the 3 A1s and 12 are correct for the 3 A1Xs in the conditions depicted by the models. Feel free to produce evidence to the contrary!

 

As far as I understand it, the 3 A1s chosen should all feature 8 bolts in the condition depicted:

 

- Box Hill as built.  I believe that as preserved in the '40s the later 12 bolts were retained, but in her current condition the original 8 bolts have been returned to.

 

- Bodiam - in early KESR livery - Disposed of in 1901, I would expect her to have 8 bolts only at that date, as, indeed, appears to be the case from the picture at page 45 of the Middlemass book

 

- SE&CR 751 - Disposed of in 1904, I would expect her to have 8 bolts only at that date, as, indeed, appears to be the case from the picture at page 90 of the Middlemass book.

 

Likewise, the pictures of the 3 A1Xs in the liveries and conditions apparently depicted by the models, all show 12 bolts. 

[Nick C]

The biggest difference between the LBSCR conversions and those done by other owners was usually the front sandboxes - Brighton moved them under the footplate, whereas others usually left them in the original position.

 

Tanks were frequently swapped between locos, as were boilers, so you need a clear photo of the loco in question to be sure of the details - for example I have seen photos of one BR example with 8 lamp irons, and another with just four. Toolbox locations varied too, especially on the ex-iow ones that didn't have the one behind the bunker.

[Oliver Rails]

In regards to the recent Hornby announcement. We can confirm that the NRM/Dapol/RAILS terrier project will definitely still go ahead. The project is well advanced and more updates will follow in due course.

 

Rails always welcomes competition, we feel the product will stand the test against others in relation to quality, accuracy and fidelity.

[RichardLong]

For what it's worth, my money will go to whichever manufacturer produces some Isle of Wight variants (any era).

[Anglian]

Who will win the race to produce an as yet unannounced Umber one. Did they ever run in Black under the LSBC?

[Ian J.]

Also, to do 662 as preserved, it needs the Isle of Wight bunker.

[Torn-on-the-platform]

Considering the hubbub around the new Hornby Terrier announcement, with the models already breaking cover at the toy fair, I'm a little surprised that Rails haven't made a further announcement on progress (aside from Oliver's reassurance above), especially as I see them as quite a tech-savvy outfit with a good eye on customer satisfaction. I'd quite like to see what my deposit has secured me.

 

Certainly the spec intended is aimed above the Hornby version, for this I am very pleased, plus they state in their announcement that the tooling will allow IoW variants, which I note from the other thread, will keep a few extra potential buyers happy. Perhaps there have been the traditional frustrations on timescale and there is little to show, as perhaps indicated by the fact that the decorated sample was not available at Warley 2018?

 

I'm really quite excited for these models, and for announcements of further liveries in due course, and hope that the ones I'm after come from Rails - I'd like to keep my terrier purchases from one company for more reliable double heading! As I've seen a member of this forum point out on twitter today - its not as simple as renumbering a terrier to get the identity that you're after.

 

 

'With all the experience Dapol has gained from making the award winning O Gauge version of the A1 / A1X Terrier it is fully anticipated that this project will progress very quickly. Decorated samples are expected to be available in time for Warley 2018.'

 

*EDIT: in fairness, I have just found a facebook post from Rails (stumbled upon having found a link to their facebook page elsewhere) stating that an EP is due in the next couple of weeks (post is from 11th Jan). I look forward to it!

Edited January 23, 2019 by Torn-on-the-platform

[JSpencer]

There is no point in them doing knee jerk reactions replying to each little thing that Hornby does.
Warley showed that Rails/Dapol tooling was well underway with an injection moulded part - so too late to turn back.

Hornby have shown us decorating EPs. Now will this be as the final models appear? We don't know, but if it is, there is chance for Rails to be correct where Hornby got it wrong (The Hornby A1 is ruddy mess at this time).

Sound option on these tiny terriers is also a very strong area on the rails model (believe me - to save doing that aggro is a BIG plus on these tiny locos).

[trevor7598]

I for one would appreciate an update on progress with the Terrier. I placed an order

for one when first announced, having been impressed by the quality of Dapol's B4.

 

Dapol for me have proved their capability when it comes to tiny loco's, but please Rails

let us know how things are going.

[Oliver Rails]

    

Exciting news!

We are pleased to announce that we expect livery samples to arrive in the UK next week. The project is making good progress and pending the approval of these samples the models will be quite imminent.

We are aware that we have shared no updates recently but we have been busy behind the scenes making sure the model will be a real show stopper.

Following the great success of our award winning Dynamometer Car (BRM, Hornby Magazine & Model Rail Coach of the Year) we anticipate once again to raise the bar with this stunning model. Many hours of research and development have been put into the project to ensure it is the most accurate Terrier model ever to have been produced, with detail and specification unbeatable. 
 

Features include:

Powerful 5 pole skew wound motor

Realistic firebox glow

Diecast chassis and running plate

Detailed plastic moulded body

Many separately fitted parts

Diecast wheels are fitted with turned metal tyres

 Sprung centre driving wheels to give compensation providing all wheel electrical pick up and better traction

DCC and sound Ready with easy access through a removable body which exposes a NEXT-18 socket

DCC and DCC Sound Fitted variants using Dapol’s own sound recording of 32678 on the Kent and East Sussex Railway*

*Factory sound fitted locomotives will feature RealDrive braking control

Don't settle for anything less than a pedigree Terrier!
Place your pre-order now

 

DECORATED SAMPLES ARRIVING SOON:
A1X BR Lined Black Early Crest No.32655
A1 'Boxhill' Stroudley Improved Engine Green No.82
A1 'Bodiam' KESR Blue

PRICE: £110.00 each (DCC Ready)
DCC Fitted Versions £140 / DCC Sound Versions £239
PRE-ORDERING IS HIGHLY RECOMMENDED
SECURE YOURS NOW WITH £30.00 DEPOSIT

[woodenhead]

4 minutes ago, Oliver Rails said:

    

Don't settle for anything less than a pedigree Terrier!

Thought they were Dapol 

No unpainted EPs for us to see? 

[Pre Grouping fan]

They are made by Dapol but were commissioned by rails of sheffield. 

 

Does say on oliver rails post they have been quiet about progress and decorated samples are arriving soon

[Bernard Lamb]

 

I like it.

Does that imply that the competition are producing a mongrel?

A nice bit of aggressive marketing.

Chapeau to Rails for holding their ground.

Bernard

 

[The Stationmaster]

3 minutes ago, Bernard Lamb said:

 

I like it.

Does that imply that the competition are producing a mongrel?

A nice bit of aggressive marketing.

Chapeau to Rails for holding their ground.

Bernard

 

It implies to me, very clearly, that Rails consider theirs is better detailed and more accurately detailed.  Are they doing one in BR WR condition?

[Dunsignalling]

I doubt I'm the only one holding back from making a final choice until we get to see the final iterations from both camps.

 

Right now, I'm thinking that what holds the coupling rods on may become the deciding factor....

 

John

Edited March 8, 2019 by Dunsignalling

[Ian Hargrave]

7 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

I doubt I'm the only one holding back from making a final choice until we get to see the final iterations from both camps.

 

Right now, I'm thinking that what holds the coupling rods on may become the deciding factor....

 

John

 

Moi aussi.( post following trend set by Mr.Lamb). 

[Ian Hargrave]

One compelling reason for a choice of the Rails version is the excellence of Dapol’s B4 which excels in terms of finish,accuracy and above all its performance.It has finesse (en francais encore ) Yes,Dapol certainly have a pedigree reputation now in the design and production of bijou model locomotives.

 

I’ll be going with Rails.

[Bernard Lamb]

2 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

I doubt I'm the only one holding back from making a final choice until we get to see the final iterations from both camps.

 

Right now, I'm thinking that what holds the coupling rods on may become the deciding factor....

 

John

Having too large nuts can be a disadvantage.

I stick to my earlier comment that the Rails version seems to offer the better interpretation.

Bernard

[Ian J.]

I'm glad to hear there's some quite significant progess, and I'm eager to see how it's turning out. My feeling is that Rails/Dapol have to better the Hornby one by a reasonable distance to make sure they get the sales. If they've done their homework and paid attention to the details, particularly those Hornby have chosen to pass by, then we should have something of a real beauty and well worth the extra.

Edited March 8, 2019 by Ian J.

[JSpencer]

My order is going to go in for 32655 fully sound and Bodiam plain DC. So glad to  see that firebox glow has made it onto these tiny locos.

 

i was hesitating between Hornby and Rails for 32655 but the DCC sound feature plus glow on the Rails version, and various issues on the Hornby one, has made me opt for Rails.

 

FWIW I have Stepney 55 and 32636 (Fenchurch in BR) with the old Dapol/Hornby model, so this time it will be Stepney in BR days and Fenchurch in A1 as preserved condition whenever that gets done.