Big James Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 (edited) I’m probably gonna get the late crest version of the rails terrier to accompany my Hornby version. But i had to laugh at pure pedigree because it reminded me of my mums Yorkshire terrier who was meant to be a teacup yorkie but turned out to be a giant yorkie. So I’m having expecting to order a 00 version and get the 0 gauge version. Big james Edited March 11, 2019 by Big James 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 I will be feeding mine Pedigree Chum before entering them into Crufts. Training will be via DCC controler. I cannot use a choke chain coller as they are all far too big for these tiny terriers but I am sure Barbara Woodhouse would have been proud by the time I finish training mine. 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 17 hours ago, JSpencer said: I will be feeding mine Pedigree Chum before entering them into Crufts. Training will be via DCC controler. I cannot use a choke chain coller as they are all far too big for these tiny terriers but I am sure Barbara Woodhouse would have been proud by the time I finish training mine. Walkeees ................................... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 Having seen the first of the Hornby production models on sale, its limitations have been confirmed. While all good things come to those who wait, I hope it will not be too long before Rails/Dapol can offer some comfort that something more refined is on its way. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pre Grouping fan Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 Edwardian. Rails announced at the weekend that the decorated samples of their terrier are due this week 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Pre Grouping fan said: Edwardian. Rails announced at the weekend that the decorated samples of their terrier are due this week I look forward to that, thanks EDIT: Have now checked my emails, and, yes, there is an update, just as you say: Many hours of research and development have been put into the project to ensure it is the most accurate Terrier model ever to have been produced, with detail and specification unbeatable. Features include: Powerful 5 pole skew wound motor Realistic firebox glow Diecast chassis and running plate Detailed plastic moulded body Many separately fitted parts Diecast wheels are fitted with turned metal tyres Sprung centre driving wheels to give compensation providing all wheel electrical pick up and better traction DCC and sound Ready with easy access through a removable body which exposes a NEXT-18 socket DCC and DCC Sound Fitted variants using Dapol’s own sound recording of 32678 on the Kent and East Sussex Railway* *Factory sound fitted locomotives will feature RealDrive braking control Don't settle for anything less than a pedigree Terrier! Place your pre-order now DECORATED SAMPLES ARRIVING SOON: A1X BR Lined Black Early Crest No.32655 A1 'Boxhill' Stroudley Improved Engine Green No.82 A1 'Bodiam' KESR Blue Edited March 11, 2019 by Edwardian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
truffy Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 I already have my pre-order for SR 2644. But now I'm seriously toying with the addition of Bodiam, if the livery sample lives up to expectations. We have a soft spot for the K&ESR, not least because my youngest, Emily, thoroughly enjoyed her Fun Day Out with Thomas a few years' back. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted March 12, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 12, 2019 Hopefully,Oliver will oblige by displaying the samples here as soon as is convenient.That might stimulate a constructive critique/dialogue...or are we asking too much ? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torn-on-the-platform Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 To be fair to Oliver, when there have been updates, he has posted them here too! I'm looking forward to the images. Early crest is the one I have ordered but worried I may be tempted by more! 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
truffy Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 (edited) 14 hours ago, Ian Hargrave said: Hopefully,Oliver will oblige by displaying the samples here as soon as is convenient.That might stimulate a constructive critique/dialogue...or are we asking too much ? Who are you asking "is it too much of"? Oliver to post samples as soon as convenient? Because, as Chris says, Oliver has been very forthcoming whenever there's an update. Or us, for a constructive critique/dialogue? Edited March 13, 2019 by truffy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted March 13, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 13, 2019 1 hour ago, truffy said: Who are you asking "is it too much of"? Oliver to post samples as soon as convenient? Because, as Chris says, Oliver has been very forthcoming whenever there's an update. Or us, for a constructive critique/dialogue? Apologies for the perceived ambivalence.I am well aware of Oliver Rails openness on his posts...as he knows. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard Lamb Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 Fillet steak for me rather than corned beef. I enjoyed the free advert on TV last night. Bernard 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-BOAF Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 I've just seen the pictures of the tooling shots that were taken at Warley. A bit dismayed to see what I presume is a prominent join in parts on the rear of the cab roof (which will be a very obvious line in a white LBSCR livery. This arrangement appears to be a direct scale down of the O gauge version, and is a very weak point. Its almost a return to the boiler side join on the Hornby Merchant Navy. Can we hope with competition from Hornby on the Terrier that this will be amended prior to production? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AY Mod Posted March 14, 2019 Moderators Share Posted March 14, 2019 12 minutes ago, G-BOAF said: I've just seen the pictures of the tooling shots that were taken at Warley. Those were very early test shots; a lot of analysis and amendments will have taken place since that time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RedgateModels Posted March 14, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 14, 2019 if I were @RailsOfSheffield I'd be posting a few images of progress following on from the BBC4 program to re-inforce their Fillet Steak approach 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-BOAF Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 29 minutes ago, AY Mod said: Those were very early test shots; a lot of analysis and amendments will have taken place since that time. Hope you're right Andy. Await the livery samples with interest! Bit disappointing that no CADS or test shots have been published by Rails since then. We have seen on here the positives that feedback at an early stage can do for a model Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 Just now, G-BOAF said: Hope you're right Andy. Await the livery samples with interest! Bit disappointing that no CADS or test shots have been published by Rails since then. We have seen on here the positives that feedback at an early stage can do for a model I don't think they wanted to give Hornby any opportunity to alter their model ahead of the Rails version. Interesting that Hornby in my mind went backwards from their initial images (on the buffers) but have got their model out first. Rails can now measure their model against this and tweak if necessary to ensure their model is better though livery samples sounds like they are satisfied their model cuts the mustard. We can but wait to see what their pedigree terrier looks like 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oliver Rails Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 Terrier Sample Update, We are pleased to confirm that the samples are in the air to us. The latest tracking shows they will arrive on Tuesday. Once they arrive we will begin evaluating, reviewing and reporting all samples. Once our detailed inspection and review has been completed and we are happy we will then publish the image/s. We understand many of you are as keen to see these samples as we are but please bear with us whilst the detailed evaluation takes place. Thanks Oliver @ Rails 11 5 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold sjrixon Posted March 15, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 15, 2019 Hope it goes well! I'm very tempted by a Southern one.... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Corbs Posted March 15, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 15, 2019 So, I'm looking at buying a 00 Terrier to adapt into one of my fleet. I would like it to represent one of the locos scrapped in 1902, probably No.58 (658), Wandle Out of all the ones that Rails offer, does anyone know which one is the closest match to what I want? I assume it was an original condition A1 when it was scrapped. @Edwardian pls help Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 1 hour ago, Corbs said: So, I'm looking at buying a 00 Terrier to adapt into one of my fleet. I would like it to represent one of the locos scrapped in 1902, probably No.58 (658), Wandle Out of all the ones that Rails offer, does anyone know which one is the closest match to what I want? I assume it was an original condition A1 when it was scrapped. @Edwardian pls help Corbs, as if I needed any encouragement! The short answer is SE&CR 751 for Wandle. However, I can't just leave it there ...! Despite recently being informed that on the subject of Terriers I am "tedious" (no, it wasn't by Simon Kohler), I continue to find these charismatic wee beasties absolutely fascinating, so .... Yours is a brilliant plan, not least because it is from the same pool of supposedly scrapped Terriers that the West Norfolk Railway gained its No.10. Looking at my list, I see that I had plumped for No 65, Tooting, a 1901 casualty, but that could change. 11 Terriers were scrapped 1901-1903. Two of these were in 1902: - No.41 Piccadilly of 1877 - No.658 Wandle of 1875. The change from 58 to 658 indicates that she was placed on the duplicate list, in this case in June 1901, at which point she would have lost her brass oval number plate. These typically were removed anyway upon sale. Interestingly, like the K&ESR pair, they represent differences. Sure you don't want to buy the pair?!? The main physically apparent variants at this period were the type of brake shoes and hangars and whether or not the condensing pipes had been removed. No bunker coal rails had been added by this time. Both of your 1902 casualties had wooden brake shoes as only the last batch of 1880 had iron brake shoes from new, and the other batches did not gain replacement iron shoes until much, much later. This means that Boxhill is not suitable, as it is a last-batch locomotive with iron shoes. Condensing pipes tended to be removed when the locos went into the works to have larger 14" cylinders fitted. We have the dates of the cylinder changes. This is not an absolute rule, however, No. 70 is listed as receiving 14" cylinders in 1897, but still had condensing pipes when she went to the K&ESR as their Bodiam in 1901. I digress. On this logic, Piccadilly should have retained her condensing pipes, as she never went into the works for 14" cylinders, and, indeed, we know that Piccadilly still carried her condensing pipes when scrapped - there is photographic evidence of this. So, for Piccadilly your best bet would be Bodiam, because it has the correct combination of wooden brake shoes and condensing pipes. The KE&SR added the bunker coal rails, so taking these off would make the loco more typical of Brighton disposals. Wandle had 14" cylinders fitted in 1894, so most probably lost her condensing pipes at that point. There is a picture of her pre-duplicate list and another as scrapped, both showing her without her condensing pipes. Unlike the SR, when the Brighton removed the condensing pipes, they made good the tank front as flush plated, leaving no recess, so you want a model like this. So, for Wandle, the best bet is the SE&CR 751. This is because this the correct combination of wooden brakes and no condensing pipes. Another consideration is the braking system. The Brighton was air-braked, hence the Westinghouse pumps mounted behind the tank on the right-hand side. The SE and the K&ES were vac braked, so these models should come without the Westinghouse pumps but with vac pipe stands on the buffers. The SE added a vac exhaust pipe leading from the left of the cab front sheet along the top of the boiler. SR and BR examples adopted this. What arrangement Bodiam may have had I don't know. 1 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Decorum Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 1 hour ago, Edwardian said: Corbs, as if I needed any encouragement! The short answer is SE&CR 751 for Wandle. However, I can't just leave it there ...! Despite recently being informed that on the subject of Terriers I am "tedious" (no, it wasn't by Simon Kohler), I continue to find these charismatic wee beasties absolutely fascinating, so .... Yours is a brilliant plan, not least because it is from the same pool of supposedly scrapped Terriers that the West Norfolk Railway gained its No.10. Looking at my list, I see that I had plumped for No 65, Tooting, a 1901 casualty, but that could change. 11 Terriers were scrapped 1901-1903. Two of these were in 1902: - No.41 Piccadilly of 1877 - No.658 Wandle of 1875. The change from 58 to 658 indicates that she was placed on the duplicate list, in this case in June 1901, at which point she would have lost her brass oval number plate. These typically were removed anyway upon sale. Interestingly, like the K&ESR pair, they represent differences. Sure you don't want to buy the pair?!? The main physically apparent variants at this period were the type of brake shoes and hangars and whether or not the condensing pipes had been removed. No bunker coal rails had been added by this time. Both of your 1902 casualties had wooden brake shoes as only the last batch of 1880 had iron brake shoes from new, and the other batches did not gain replacement iron shoes until much, much later. This means that Boxhill is not suitable, as it is a last-batch locomotive with iron shoes. Condensing pipes tended to be removed when the locos went into the works to have larger 14" cylinders fitted. We have the dates of the cylinder changes. This is not an absolute rule, however, No. 70 is listed as receiving 14" cylinders in 1897, but still had condensing pipes when she went to the K&ESR as their Bodiam in 1901. I digress. On this logic, Piccadilly should have retained her condensing pipes, as she never went into the works for 14" cylinders, and, indeed, we know that Piccadilly still carried her condensing pipes when scrapped - there is photographic evidence of this. So, for Piccadilly your best bet would be Bodiam, because it has the correct combination of wooden brake shoes and condensing pipes. The KE&SR added the bunker coal rails, so taking these off would make the loco more typical of Brighton disposals. Wandle had 14" cylinders fitted in 1894, so most probably lost her condensing pipes at that point. There is a picture of her pre-duplicate list and another as scrapped, both showing her without her condensing pipes. Unlike the SR, when the Brighton removed the condensing pipes, they made good the tank front as flush plated, leaving no recess, so you want a model like this. So, for Wandle, the best bet is the SE&CR 751. This is because this the correct combination of wooden brakes and no condensing pipes. Another consideration is the braking system. The Brighton was air-braked, hence the Westinghouse pumps mounted behind the tank on the right-hand side. The SE and the K&ES were vac braked, so these models should come without the Westinghouse pumps but with vac pipe stands on the buffers. The SE added a vac exhaust pipe leading from the left of the cab front sheet along the top of the boiler. SR and BR examples adopted this. What arrangement Bodiam may have had I don't know. I don’t ever recall tedium being so well presented. Thank you for your inputs. Subject to how things turn out, I can see myself getting a Hornby one (probably Southern) out of interest but taking more of the Rails one. I get the impression that present Hornby models show signs of undue haste. Silly little things such as the drawbar on Sir William and the flanged trailing wheels fouling the rear of the trailing truck. In the latter case, there was no need of it for clearance; filing notches cured the problem. Then we have the stripes on the bathtubs not meeting in a point and the large holes on the front casing. I’m in the market for flawless versions of something I already have but this sort of thing puts me off. The limited funds go elsewhere. 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ian J. Posted March 16, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 16, 2019 There are some who find discussion of details tedious, but then they probably aren't the most enthusiastic for a good representation of a particular prototype that they are otherwise looking to buy. They would probably feel different about a prototype that they are precious about. In the case of the Terrier, Edwardian and I both feel the details matter and discussing them raises the hope that the designers/toolers/manufacturers are listening and taking note so that their product is of high fidelity to prototype. As dibber25 just said in the Hornby Terrier thread, details for a given individual loco may not be practical or cost effective to do and may have to be passed by, but as I replied, I hope that class common details can be rendered correctly. 2 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted March 16, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 16, 2019 51 minutes ago, Ian J. said: There are some who find discussion of details tedious, but then they probably aren't the most enthusiastic for a good representation of a particular prototype that they are otherwise looking to buy. They would probably feel different about a prototype that they are precious about. In the case of the Terrier, Edwardian and I both feel the details matter and discussing them raises the hope that the designers/toolers/manufacturers are listening and taking note so that their product is of high fidelity to prototype. As dibber25 just said in the Hornby Terrier thread, details for a given individual loco may not be practical or cost effective to do and may have to be passed by, but as I replied, I hope that class common details can be rendered correctly. I seem to recall that we got very deep into what some might call 'tedium' when it came to the detail errors on Oxford's Dean Goods but it did at least hopefully encourage Locomotion to look even more closely at the model when checking detail for their version (I believe they came up with even more errors than we had mentioned on RMweb). I also firmly believe that by drawing attention to this sort of thing we encourage researchers, developers and designers to look as hard as we do and - where tooling costs allow - to take onboard as much attention to detail variations as they sensibly can. But separately added parts add cost and slides in tools add even more cost apart from both increasing the potential for assembly errors and the 'manufacturer' has to be ever cognisant of the potential UK selling price and marketability of the model he is producing. Equally if we are being asked to pay more we are inevitably going to expect the 'manufacturer' to go the extra mile. And it isn't just steam outline. models which get this - in fact I see far more things said about diesel outline models, including moans about basic shape (which sometimes strike me as highly subjective), than is sometimes said about steam outline models. I will cheerfully admit state that I am not in the market for a Terrier (unless/until a decent GWR version comes along ) but seeing it right at this stage ought to help considerably in the event of the one that interests me finally appearing. Equally as I invariably find prototype research interesting and enjoyable I am happy at times to delve a bit further into tedious contentious areas. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Corbs Posted March 16, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 16, 2019 Edwardian, thank you so much, I knew I could count on you! I will put the SECR model on my wish-list! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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