truffy Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 17 hours ago, stonetown said: the cab windows are too far apart It's difficult to judge from photos, not least because of the different angles, but it does seem that Hornby got it closer. I'll leave the final judgement on that to those with photos/measurements of the prototypes and the models in their hands though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWsTrains Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 I'm no expert but those photos look absolutely superb to me and I think Edwardian captured it with "Overall, for me, these capture the prototype extremely well and with finesse." Have recently bought a WC&PR Terrier as I never thought I'd see another release of such a minor Terrier version, but I'm now hoping Rails will extend their project to cover "Portishead" when it was in that livery. Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
atom3624 Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 If they go half as well as they look, they'll be superb!! Fantastic effort Rails!! Al. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-BOAF Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 (edited) 23 hours ago, stonetown said: - the cab windows are too far apart Now this is pointed out, I can't stop noticing it, though something did seem a little off when I first saw the photos yesterday. Ouch!!! Rails/Dapol please amend this! Now seen it can't be unseen!. The windows are such a feature of the Terrier, part of its face, and would be a shame to get this wrong on an otherwise such fine model. Hopefully not too late to modify the front and rear cab sheets. On the Stroudly Livery model (boxhill) it is esepcially noticble as on the model there is not really any 'improved engine green' on the outboard side of the cab windows, and the dark green/white lining is too close to the cab windows. In contrast to the real thing. I hope the two images below demonstrate the discrepency: This will be a great model with these corrections. Please take your time to get it right. Would have been easier to spot/point out and correct at the CAD stage, but I trust your aim for the ultimate terrier will result in the tooling on the cab front/rear being corrected! Would be a shame for both the Dapol and Hornby models to have errors in different significant parts of the Terrier's character. Edited March 21, 2019 by G-BOAF better comparison pictures 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 1 hour ago, G-BOAF said: Now this is pointed out, I can't stop noticing it, though something did seem a little off when I first saw the photos yesterday. Ouch!!! ......................... Would be a shame for both the Dapol and Hornby models to have errors in different significant parts of the Terrier's character. I wonder how many people will buy both to try and get the most perfect model by using the best parts of both??? Guess it would be impossible if they wanted to match the colours as well with a repaint. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-BOAF Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 3 minutes ago, JSpencer said: I wonder how many people will buy both to try and get the most perfect model by using the best parts of both??? Guess it would be impossible if they wanted to match the colours as well with a repaint. Might be OK for BR Black version (Dapol chassis/boiler/running plate, Hornby Cab). But impossible for any other livery as there will be colour differences. But this will NOT BE NECESSARY if Rails/Dapolsort these issues now. Maybe Rails/Locomotion Models can tell us what has been highlighted for correction... How can the designers in China have got so much right but then got quite major stuff wrong? 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 1 hour ago, G-BOAF said: Now this is pointed out, I can't stop noticing it, though something did seem a little off when I first saw the photos yesterday. Ouch!!! Rails/Dapol please amend this! Now seen it can't be unseen!. The windows are such a feature of the Terrier, part of its face, and would be a shame to get this wrong on an otherwise such fine model. Hopefully not too late to modify the front and rear cab sheets. On the Stroudly Livery model (boxhill) it is esepcially noticble as on the model there is not really any 'improved engine green' on the outboard side of the cab windows, and the dark green/white lining is too close to the cab. In contrast to the ral thing I hope the two images below demonstrate the discrepency: This will be a great model with these corrections. Please take your time to get it right. Would have been easier to spot/point out and correct at the CAD stage, but I trust your aim for the ultimate terrier will result in the tooling on the cab front/rear being corrected! Would be a shame for both the Dapol and Hornby models to have errors in different significant parts of the Terrier's character. Looks like those front windows might actually be a tiny bit undersize too !!?! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hilux5972 Posted March 21, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 21, 2019 As these are now at livery sample stage I would say it’s far too late to be correcting an issue like the cab windows. That would require retooling and would create delays and push the release back. They are already in the back foot with Hornbys being released first so to push it back further would be a bad sign for them. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikesndbs Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Hilux5972 said: As these are now at livery sample stage I would say it’s far too late to be correcting an issue like the cab windows. That would require retooling and would create delays and push the release back. They are already in the back foot with Hornbys being released first so to push it back further would be a bad sign for them. Hope not, that's a big error to live with sadly. One can see what a feature this is. Edited March 21, 2019 by mikesndbs added photo 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikesndbs Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 Could be we are being fooled by the photos, on their video it looks ok to me? 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-BOAF Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 18 minutes ago, mikesndbs said: Could be we are being fooled by the photos, on their video it looks ok to me? Low res video vs high res photo? Probably not. It seems there's an error 48 minutes ago, Hilux5972 said: As these are now at livery sample stage I would say it’s far too late to be correcting an issue like the cab windows. That would require retooling and would create delays and push the release back. They are already in the back foot with Hornbys being released first so to push it back further would be a bad sign for them. Great, so lets have a rushed out terrier from TWO manufacturers, both with errors! Wouldn't it be better to delay and get it right! If you are in such a rush for a terrier, get the Hornby one... Given this is the first time that any real sample of the Rails model has appeared for public commens and fresh eyes, it would be a shame if no changes can be made. There is no way that the original measurements would have held this error. Someone in China has 'corrected' or misinterpreted the drawings or laser scan. Seems to happen all to often. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Roy Langridge Posted March 21, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 21, 2019 Blimey, why don’t we just wait to see what Oliver says rather than start major rants? Roy 1 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pre Grouping fan Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 Just remember the first livery sample can (and has in the past) used early tooling samples so will show up errors. Its quite possible that the tooling is being amended now ready for the second decoration samples to be produced. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ian J. Posted March 21, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 21, 2019 It would be nice to know what the corrections are likely to be, but I'm not holding my breath. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 22 hours ago, Ian J. said: Looking at 32661 and the smokebox/saddle issue, I have just been looking at a number of photos of Terriers with rivets at the front outer wrapper of the smokebox, and the rivet line is nearer the front of the smokebox than those depicted on the model. It's possible that the saddle/smokebox size and positioning is very nearly correct, but the rivets on the model are set back from the front by a gap that is, funnily enough, about the width of the rivets. Maybe, but this close up shot of Bodiam shows a distinct line where the front plate joins the rolled giving an impression it is shallower than we think when we need to include the thickness of the front plate it seems. http://gallery.nen.gov.uk/imagelarge664697-.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold NHY 581 Posted March 21, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 21, 2019 Perhaps the cab windows are fine and the lining is too wide.......hence why it looks okay on the BR black version.. Rob 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 To my eye the windows are right, differences in angle and lighting only. 1 3 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Decorum Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 Don’t those couplers stick out rather far? 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 17 minutes ago, No Decorum said: Don’t those couplers stick out rather far? Now you mention it - that's ridiculous !! Regards, John Isherwood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglian Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 (edited) What we can't really judge is the degree of optical illusion we are seeing from different or even slightly different angles. For example, when I look at the image of 32661 the left-hand window (i.e. the right hand window as we look at the model) looks closer to the edge of the cab front than the right-hand window does (i.e. the left-hand window as we look at the model). When I look at the images of the real Boxhill and the real Fenchurch the windows of the latter look slightly smaller but I think this is purely down to optical illusion caused by the darker livery. Equally looking at Fenchurch (and clearly showing my lack of knowledge) I'm not sure what the pipe work to the left of the left-hand window is but if the model windows aren't placed correctly this feature will have to be left-off or similarly misplaced. Although on the model 32661, this pipe is not on the model Bodiam and it should be (in preserved form). However, it is placed higher on the cab front on the vertical centre-line of the windows, whereas on the real Fenchurch it sits slightly lower. Again looking in comparison with the real Bodiam, the dome of the model is slightly off-shape and the associated pipe work is too tall/long on the model. I also notice that the two small brackets at the front of the sandboxes are missing and instead there is a bit of a gap instead. Hopefully this is due to this being a pre-production sample. I know it has been noted that the roof shape is wrong but I can't see this clearly enough to have an opinion. Assuming it is wrong and not an optical illusion then given that we mostly look down on our models I think this does need to be corrected as well. The colour – the boiler looks a darker hue of Engine green than the tank sides, however this may be due to the photographic lighting. If you scroll down through the images in this link below you will eventually come to a good shot showing the cab front plate and the windows. https://www.derekhayward.co.uk/BluebellRailway-1/Locomotives/Overhauls/55-Stepney-Overhaul/ Edited March 22, 2019 by Anglian duplicated content Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
truffy Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 1 hour ago, Anglian said: this pipe is not on the model Bodiam and it should be (in preserved form). The Rails site describes Bodiam as Era2, which I take to be as used not as preserved. At least, I hope that is the case. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 15 hours ago, robmcg said: To my eye the windows are right, differences in angle and lighting only. Look at the photo of preserved 'Fenchurch' above and imagine trying to fit a third window between the existing ones - it'd be a VERY tight fit - probably impossible, in fact .... but not so on the model = something's wrong there ! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 Well, I've been away for a couple of days and see that I have quite a bit here to read through. A few comments in haste .... - I think that the position of the front spectacles is something well-worth Rails/Dapol checking. - Without committing to a view on the A1X smoke-box (all a bit modern for me!), I am not sure how reliable an example the preserved Bodiam would prove to be as it's been very heavily restored in that area, so just a note of caution. - The Bodiam we have seen in the Rails sample pictures is certainly as in service with the K&ESR in the 1900s, not as preserved. She was sold out of service in 1901 in her then A1 condition. She shows none of the later physical changes. She is, however, in early K&ESR, which, since the line was, I believe, call the Rother Valley until 1904, must have been applied following that. There is a picture in Middlemass showing her in the same condition as the Rails/Dapol model. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted March 23, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 23, 2019 3 hours ago, Edwardian said: - I think that the position of the front spectacles is something well-worth Rails/Dapol checking. I think it’s either the position or the lining that’s squeezed the look in the photos. I’ve got Thames in O and that looks right but the lining just looks wider on the OO photos. Will be interesting to see a front on shot. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted March 23, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 23, 2019 In the Dapol cabinet Close as I can get to head on 6 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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