Rails of Sheffield/Dapol/NRM Announce OO gauge Stroudley A1/A1X

[John M Upton]

The basic gist is that my modellinginterests have moved on so it's not really required.

 

I'll probably complete the purchase and either keep it stored for the future or recoup my expenditure through eBay.

[PhilH]

Clear as mud..

 

https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/can-i-claim-back-a-non-refundable-deposit

[cctransuk]

3 hours ago, Roy Langridge said:

 

As per the Rails terms and conditions the deposits are non-refundable.

 

 

I can't see anything that says you cannot cancel.

 

Roy

 

 

In line with the consumer rights advice quoted above, ask Rails to give you a breakdown of the costs that they have incurred that would justify their retaining your deposit.

 

Just because thay say that deposits are non-refundable doesn't make the practice legal - in law, it has to be fair and reasonable.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[PaulRhB]

Why not just ask first and then ask for a cost breakdown IF they refuse?

Other option is to ask if anyone else here wants to take up your choice and ask Rails to transfer it by refunding you once the other has paid their deposit. I cancelled another order recently because their supplier couldn’t tell Rails when or actually if they would get the item, the supplier would only say as and when so after a month I cancelled to order elsewhere. As these missed the initial delivery date it’s reasonable grounds to cancel as long as the t&c’s don’t specify extensions. Try a polite reminder of this before a combative legal quotes approach and the ‘managers discretion’ is likely to be applied. 

I’ve settled two disputes on price with a shop by politely pointing out the contract details.  

Edited July 25, 2019 by PaulRhB

[Oliver Rails]

Hi,

 

We review all cancelation requests / refunds cases individually. Please give our mail order team a call who will be happily to help and discuss options with you.

 

Kind Regards
Oliver

[Anglian]

Oliver,

 

Any indication when we can expect to see images of the revised Terriers?

[Oliver Rails]

On 27/07/2019 at 07:10, Anglian said:

Oliver,

 

Any indication when we can expect to see images of the revised Terriers?

 

The latest revised terrier samples are due this week. Depending what day they arrive we should be able to share images late this week or early next.

 

Thanks

Oliver

[GWRtrainman]

On 25/07/2019 at 07:43, Roy Langridge said:

 

As per the Rails terms and conditions the deposits are non-refundable.

 

 

I can't see anything that says you cannot cancel.

 

Roy

 

A non refundable deposit has to meet two criteria to be enforceable 

 

1. Any time scale given must be complied with

2. The value of a deposit should not be excessive - which I think means covering loss in the event of a cancellation.  

 

Then if a refund is refused the retailer would be expected to mitigate the loss.  I believe if they find another buyer for your item at the same price them the majority of the deposit should be refunded.  

 

In short point one has been breached therefore people can claim a refund.  

 

[mikesndbs]

On 31/07/2019 at 20:36, GWRtrainman said:

A non refundable deposit has to meet two criteria to be enforceable 

 

1. Any time scale given must be complied with

2. The value of a deposit should not be excessive - which I think means covering loss in the event of a cancellation.  

 

Then if a refund is refused the retailer would be expected to mitigate the loss.  I believe if they find another buyer for your item at the same price them the majority of the deposit should be refunded.  

 

In short point one has been breached therefore people can claim a refund.  

 

 

 

Businesses can keep your deposit or advance payments, or ask you to pay a cancellation charge, only in certain circumstances

If you cancel the contract, the business is generally only entitled to keep or receive an amount sufficient to cover their actual losses that directly result from your cancellation (eg costs already incurred or loss of profit).

Businesses must take reasonable steps to reduce their losses (eg by re-selling the goods or services).

Non-refundable deposits should only be a small percentage of the total price.

Cancellation charges must be a genuine estimate of the business’ direct loss.

 

The above is law!

 

Non refundable only applies if the business is not able to sell the item to another customer, as these are not exclusive items and are being offer for mass sale this does not apply. (no actual loss) I have kept out of this as I can see 'opinions' getting heated, but the law is as stated and is not an opinion.

[Andy Hayter]

17 hours ago, mikesndbs said:

 

 

Businesses can keep your deposit or advance payments, or ask you to pay a cancellation charge, only in certain circumstances

If you cancel the contract, the business is generally only entitled to keep or receive an amount sufficient to cover their actual losses that directly result from your cancellation (eg costs already incurred or loss of profit).

Businesses must take reasonable steps to reduce their losses (eg by re-selling the goods or services).

Non-refundable deposits should only be a small percentage of the total price.

Cancellation charges must be a genuine estimate of the business’ direct loss.

 

The above is law!

 

Non refundable only applies if the business is not able to sell the item to another customer, as these are not exclusive items and are being offer for mass sale this does not apply. (no actual loss) I have kept out of this as I can see 'opinions' getting heated, but the law is as stated and is not an opinion.

Thanks for that insight Mike.

 

Given the specific issues with the A1, does that impact on what you have written?

 

I am thinking that after the announcement by NRM/Rails had announced the model ( and maybe had already agreed and committed to production volumes in China), Hornby announced their intention to produce in competition - a situation that while not unique, is unusual.  Hornby have been able to bring their offering to market first, so draining a portion of the market to NRM/Rails.

 

Could it the be argued that in these new circumstances a cancellation of a Rails order is likely to leave that company with excess stock that could eventually only be sold by discounting - hence the loss of the deposit?

 

[Hilux5972]

Regardless of what the keyboard warriors on here state, I would trust that Rails, being a long established retailer, would know the laws concerning and surrounding its exclusive products and regards to non refundable goods. Or is everyone thinking of going to consumer advocates and getting them shut down? 

[mikesndbs]

10 hours ago, Andy Hayter said:

Thanks for that insight Mike.

 

Given the specific issues with the A1, does that impact on what you have written?

 

I am thinking that after the announcement by NRM/Rails had announced the model ( and maybe had already agreed and committed to production volumes in China), Hornby announced their intention to produce in competition - a situation that while not unique, is unusual.  Hornby have been able to bring their offering to market first, so draining a portion of the market to NRM/Rails.

 

Could it the be argued that in these new circumstances a cancellation of a Rails order is likely to leave that company with excess stock that could eventually only be sold by discounting - hence the loss of the deposit?

 

 

 

Technically no, non refundables only really applies when a customer orders something specific or for example with holiday lets, fails to give enough notice so that the company either can not re-let or has to discount significantly.

 

However, I do agree that the very clear undermining by Hornby was out of order and in fact it was that that inspired me to order a Rails Terrier and I shall hold on and await it eagerly.

 

Why are people looking to cancel their orders anyway?

 

 

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

1 hour ago, mikesndbs said:

...Why are people looking to cancel their orders anyway?

I suspect you identified the most likely answer in your own post. Among those wanting something better than the old Dapol designed model, some (unknown) proportion were satisfied by the appearance of Hornby's model.

 

I would suggest a parallel with the two Kings. There the retailer saw the risk and cut their losses, because they were foreseeably going to be beaten to market by Hornby.

 

Hornby is a brand with some muscle. It doesn't have to be putatively 'better' if it says Hornby on the box, for some (large?) segment of the customer base.

[Andy Hayter]

Additionally I think there is probably an element of the "I must have it and I want it now" impatience.

 

I will confess to personally waiting to see samples of the final model to see if the spectacle plate issue has been resolved.  If so and if the model is otherwise as good as the EP then my order will be winging Rails way.

[9402 Fredrick]

I do have a Hornby Terrier, and she is a beaut, but I do want to see how these will  fair as I have the LBSCR and Late BR liveried ones on order.

[trevor7598]

On 03/08/2019 at 10:14, mikesndbs said:

 

 

Technically no, non refundables only really applies when a customer orders something specific or for example with holiday lets, fails to give enough notice so that the company either can not re-let or has to discount significantly.

 

However, I do agree that the very clear undermining by Hornby was out of order and in fact it was that that inspired me to order a Rails Terrier and I shall hold on and await it eagerly.

 

Why are people looking to cancel their orders anyway?

 

 

I too eagerly await the arrival of the Rails Terrier, and my order has been in place since announcement.

Their advertisement ' Rails pedigree Terriers arriving soon ' has been showing on RM web for a considerable time.

Rails idea of ' soon ' is wearing a little thin. I think an update, good, bad or indifferent, would at least keep those

with long standing orders from straying to the opposition or cancelling.

It was the quality of the Dapol B4, that has persuaded me to stick with the Rails offering.

 

[truffy]

14 minutes ago, trevor7598 said:

Rails idea of ' soon ' is wearing a little thin. I think an update, good, bad or indifferent, would at least keep those

with long standing orders from straying to the opposition or cancelling.

Oliver stated, on this very page, that revised livery samples were imminent 

Edited August 5, 2019 by truffy
Can you keep a secret? So can I.

[adb968008]

Rather than cancel and lose £30, or hit the keyboard seeing red, translating law into your own opinion of what that law looks like as if all else fails, that’s actually a judges decision, not yours. Why not wait, buy it and if you don’t like it, you can either return it or resell it on ebay. Neither option will see you lose as much as £30, if it’s sold out at Rails, you may even make a few quid.

 

ive not ordered any new Terriers yet, as we’re constantly told duplication is healthy in the market, I’m just being a consumer and waiting to see if HP is better than Heinz, as it were.

 

 

[Oldddudders]

On 05/08/2019 at 09:51, trevor7598 said:

I too eagerly await the arrival of the Rails Terrier, and my order has been in place since announcement.

Their advertisement ' Rails pedigree Terriers arriving soon ' has been showing on RM web for a considerable time.

Rails idea of ' soon ' is wearing a little thin. I think an update, good, bad or indifferent, would at least keep those

with long standing orders from straying to the opposition or cancelling.

It is still less than 18 months since the initial announcement started this thread. Many RTR products have a gestation period well in excess of that. 

[Skinnylinny]

On 31/07/2019 at 11:22, Oliver Rails said:

 

The latest revised terrier samples are due this week. Depending what day they arrive we should be able to share images late this week or early next.

 

Thanks

Oliver

Hi Oliver,
 

Just wondering if there's any update yet?

[Ian J.]

On 08/08/2019 at 16:25, Skinnylinny said:

Hi Oliver,
 

Just wondering if there's any update yet?

 

Me too. It's been two weeks now since Oliver's recent post that the new samples were imminent in a week or two.

[Oliver Rails]

Hi,

 

Sorry for the delay with the update. I can confirm that the new samples have arrived at Dapol.

These are currently being inspected by the Dapol R&D department and I can report that they do look outstanding!

 

Dapol will have completed the full inspection by the end of next week.

 

We aim to publish images in the first week of September where we also can share some further good news.

 

Thanks

Oliver

[G-BOAF]

On 22/08/2019 at 15:58, Oliver Rails said:

Hi,

 

Sorry for the delay with the update. I can confirm that the new samples have arrived at Dapol.

These are currently being inspected by the Dapol R&D department and I can report that they do look outstanding!

 

Dapol will have completed the full inspection by the end of next week.

 

We aim to publish images in the first week of September where we also can share some further good news.

 

Thanks

Oliver

 

Any more news/reports/images. Now 6 September...

[Oliver Rails]

 

As a little tease please find attached a shot of the Southern Terrier. 

 

Be aware, as we have stated before, these are only samples which have been heavily handled, poked and pulled (they also arrive unboxed in bubble wrap ).

 

Dapol have really taken their time with the review process, going over each sample with a fine-tooth comb and making sure everything is correct, down to the finest detail.  

 

We have not had chance to photograph the others just yet. These will follow next week along with further exciting news.

 

Thanks
Oliver

 

 

 

[woodenhead]

 

Well to my eye the face is much improved.