Rails of Sheffield/Dapol/NRM Announce OO gauge Stroudley A1/A1X

[The Stationmaster]

Thanks for the post Oliver.  A brave decision to reject a delivery but one which is greatly appreciated when you find an error and undertake to make sure it is corrected, by producing another batch, before models are sent on their way to us.  It shows your and the NRM's commitment to a high quality finish with the Terrier models and that is why many (all?) of us are buying them.  And a delay - irrelevant I suspect for the vast majority of us who have ordered these models.  Far better to make sure they are right and not just rush them out, so thanks again.

[CUCKOO LINE]

Good to hear progress and happy to wait but I feel a little confused on approx. dates, I have a late BR one on order not quite sure now where that fits in the release schedule.

[Ian J.]

Can I add my support, Oliver. The money for a couple of Terriers is put aside, and will not be spent elsewhere (except in the event of a real emergency, which I hope won't happen).

[BWsTrains]

11 hours ago, Oliver Rails said:

LB&SCR LIVERIED TERRIER LOCOMOTIVES
AN UPDATE FROM LOCOMOTION MODELS & RAILS OF SHEFFIELD

 

 

 

 

......

Unfortunately, the requirement to do this coincides with the shut down ready for Chinese New Year (25th January until 8th February). Production will not likely recommence in full until the third week of February and we regret we are unlikely to see these particular versions until April 2020 (possibly late March). As soon as they are ready they will be air freighted to the UK.

We would rather delay delivery than release something that falls just short of the exacting standards we have set the manufacturer and you expect of us. We can only apologise for the disappointment that this further delay to these variants will cause.

 

We are currently awaiting final production samples of two of our other versions for checking in the next few days prior to completing the approval process. If all goes well these should be released in January. These are KESR Bodium and LB&SC Gipsyhill. The remainder of the releases will in general follow the announcement dates with the first batch coming first with the exception of Brighton Gold Medal which should arrive with Boxhill. Production and delivery will be continuous from here at the factory, both before and after CNY, until all 13 versions have been delivered successfully.

 

We hope you will agree with our decision to not accept any compromises after the effort which has been put into achieving the most accurate model of a ready to run Terrier yet seen.

 

 

 

Oliver,

 

Thanks, the update has been welcomed widely but I find the wording of the release timing info confusing.

 

It would be helpful if you could provide INDICATIVE release dates for each of the locos in sequence. You are clear about the locos needing to go back to production and the next two nearing approval but many of us will have the other 8 (or is it 9?)  models where the prospective dates are unclear.

 

Colin W

[AY Mod]

52 minutes ago, BWsTrains said:

 

It would be helpful if you could provide INDICATIVE release dates for each of the locos in sequence. You are clear about the locos needing to go back to production and the next two nearing approval but many of us will have the other 8 (or is it 9?)  models where the prospective dates are unclear.

 

 

The identified issue only relates to Boxhill. The other items are awaiting final inspection/approval before shipping so dates will depend upon the outcome of those checks. I'm sure Oliver will keep us updated.

[Oliver Rails]

Please find below the production schedule for our OO gauge terriers.

 

Subject to any approval issues the aim is to have the first two models arriving before Chinese New Year. Production will continue once CNY has finished, the remainder will continue to arrive with a goal of full delivery completed by April. The majority are expected to be with us in March. This includes the reworked Boxhill and Brighton models.

 

Before CNY:

 

1. KESR Bodium

 

2. LB&SCR 643 Ex Gipsyhill

 

Immediately after CNY:

 

3. Boxhill NRM    )

                              ) these 2 to come together

4. Boxhill Rails    )

 

5. LBSC Brighton

 

6. BR 32665

 

7. BR 32661

 

8. Southern 2644

 

9. SECR 751

 

10. BR 32650

 

11. Southern 9 Fishbourne

 

12. WC+PR 4

 

13. GWR 6

[truffy]

I'm thinking of adding another SR2644, for renumbering and conversion to push/pull.

 

Does anyone have any guidance on what would be needed for such a conversion?

Edited January 17, 2020 by truffy
spoiling

[Oldddudders]

47 minutes ago, truffy said:

I'm thinking of adding another SR2644, for renumbering and conversion to push/pull.

 

Does anyone have any guidance on what would be needed for such a conversion?

No - but I can tell you that on Southern it was called pull-push. 

[truffy]

25 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

No - but I can tell you that on Southern it was called pull-push. 

At least I got my point across! 

[Jack P]

In that same vein - does anyone know how long 2644 stayed in olive green for?

[CUCKOO LINE]

20 hours ago, Oliver Rails said:

Please find below the production schedule for our OO gauge terriers.

 

Subject to any approval issues the aim is to have the first two models arriving before Chinese New Year. Production will continue once CNY has finished, the remainder will continue to arrive with a goal of full delivery completed by April. The majority are expected to be with us in March. This includes the reworked Boxhill and Brighton models.

 

Before CNY:

 

1. KESR Bodium

 

2. LB&SCR 643 Ex Gipsyhill

 

Immediately after CNY:

 

3. Boxhill NRM    )

                              ) these 2 to come together

4. Boxhill Rails    )

 

5. LBSC Brighton

 

6. BR 32665

 

7. BR 32661

 

8. Southern 2644

 

9. SECR 751

 

10. BR 32650

 

11. Southern 9 Fishbourne

 

12. WC+PR 4

 

13. GWR 6

Thanks for the update, really helpful

[GeoffBird]

On ‎18‎/‎01‎/‎2020 at 13:00, CUCKOO LINE said:

Thanks for the update, really helpful

Is No. 6 actually 32655?

[Ian J.]

4 hours ago, GeoffBird said:

Is No. 6 actually 32655?

 

I believe so.

[Oliver Rails]

Hi,

 

Sorry, Yes No.6 should be 32655.

 

Oliver

[Oliver Rails]

Hi,

 

Sorry, Yes No.6 should be 32655.

 

Oliver

[truffy]

On 17/01/2020 at 21:51, truffy said:

I'm thinking of adding another SR2644, for renumbering and conversion to push/pull.

 

Does anyone have any guidance on what would be needed for such a conversion?

 

According to SEMGonline:

Quote

with the introduction of 'motor-trains' (push-pull) the 'Terriers' were found to be useful. For this use, new boilers were fitted, and other modifications carried out, and so the 'Terrier' became the A1X

 

Does this mean to say that an A1X doesn't need any further conversion to push-pull?

 

On 17/01/2020 at 22:39, Oldddudders said:

No - but I can tell you that on Southern it was called pull-push. 

 

I must have got it from SEMG (above)

[Edwardian]

1 hour ago, truffy said:

 

According to SEMGonline: "with the introduction of 'motor-trains' (push-pull) the 'Terriers' were found to be useful. For this use, new boilers were fitted, and other modifications carried out, and so the 'Terrier' became the A1X"

 

 

That abbreviation of history is positively misleading.

 

After the experimental pair in 1905, between 1906 and, IIRC, 1912, all but 2 (used as works shunters) of the surviving class members on the Brighton were fitted with motor train gear, whereas the first of the new-boilered A1Xs were a relatively small number rebuilt IIRC 1911-1913. 

 

So, the conversion of the fleet for motor train work very largely pre-dated the first A1Xs. 

 

As the Terriers went into the works to be converted for motor train operation, they would have gained the 1905 umber livery.  Also associated with motor train working was the raising of the buffers, and I suspect this is when the shorter toolboxes were first fitted to accommodate this change, and condensing pipes were re-instated, but these were very much still A1s.

 

See Rails' forthcoming 643 as representative of this phase of development.  The model represents a motor-train fitted loco, from 1906, and was known to have worked the Kemp Town branch in this condition. 

 

[truffy]

19 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

 

That abbreviation of history is positively misleading.

 

After the experimental pair in 1905, between 1906 and, IIRC, 1912, all but 2 (used as works shunters) of the surviving class members on the Brighton were fitted with motor train gear, whereas the first of the new-boilered A1Xs were a relatively small number rebuilt IIRC 1911-1913. 

 

So, the conversion of the fleet for motor train work very largely pre-dated the first A1Xs. 

 

As the Terriers went into the works to be converted for motor train operation, they would have gained the 1905 umber livery.  Also associated with motor train working was the raising of the buffers, and I suspect this is when the shorter toolboxes were first fitted to accommodate this change, and condensing pipes were re-instated, but these were very much still A1s.

 

See Rails' forthcoming 643 as representative of this phase of development.  The model represents a motor-train fitted loco, from 1906, and was known to have worked the Kemp Town branch in this condition. 

 

 

So, are you saying that by "motor train" you mean that Rails' SR version is already PP fitted?

Edited January 23, 2020 by truffy

[Edwardian]

10 hours ago, truffy said:

 

So, are you saying that by "motor train" you mean that Rails' SR version is already PP fitted?

 

No, rather unhelpfully, I wasn't attempting to answer your question at all!

 

The quote you cited seemed to imply that motor train fitting was part and parcel with the A1X rebuilds, at least that's how it read to me, and I thought to correct that impression.

 

Grouping is not my period, and SR PP workings are rather out of my way.  Someone here will be far better placed to weigh in and I would hope they do so. But I will attempt to answer you now.

 

I think there must have been a progressive move away from using Terriers for PP after Grouping; D1 tanks seem to have taken over here, as, of course, they had once displaced Terriers from the suburban trains they'd been built for.  644/2644 was associated with the Kemp Town branch and this would have been push-pull working, but the service ceased in 1933.  I think 2644 went on to the Hayling branch, but Mike King says that, although push-pull sets were allocated to the branch 1937-9, he doubts any A1Xs were PP fitted by then.

 

SR air-controlled PP equipment involved a series of 3 colour-coded pipes mounted beneath the buffer beam.  Pictures of 2644 dated 1938 and 1939 show brake piping and steam heating pipes, but not the 3 PP pipes, and these pipes are not present on the model.  

 

Below, air-control piping on a D1:

 

 

Below, 2644 in 1938:

 

 

Below, 2644 in 1939:

 

 

 

Edited January 24, 2020 by Edwardian

[Edwardian]

On 18/01/2020 at 08:23, Jack P said:

In that same vein - does anyone know how long 2644 stayed in olive green for?

 

I have replied to your PM.

 

To November 1941, in case anyone else wanted to know.

[Wickham Green]

2 hours ago, Edwardian said:

 

.....................  644/2644 was associated with the Kemp Town branch and this would have been push-pull working, but the service ceased in 1933.  I think 2644 went on to the Hayling branch, but Mike King says that, although push-pull sets were allocated to the branch 1937-9, he doubts any A1Xs were PP fitted by then. ...................

 

I think Pull-Push Terriers were confined to the Isle of Widget by that time ........ as ever, Bradley will advise.

 

Maybe this is an opportunity to remind the Trade that a 'D1' would be useful ..................................

[Nick C]

I agree with Wickham Green on this one - as far as I know the only PP fitted Terriers post-grouping were the ones on the Island (and not all of them, not all of the time anyway!), with mainland services in the hands of D1 and D3 tanks (and later M7s and Hs as they moved into the ex-LBSCR area)

 

PP locos could be easily spotted by the extra air pipes under the headstocks, as per Edwardian's photo. The IOW locos were of course also fitted with Air brakes. (as did some, but not all, of the mainland ones, in addition to Vacuum). The rest of the gear was, I think, between the frames - unlike the O2s which had it on the left-hand-front footplate under the air pump.

[Edwardian]

2 hours ago, Wickham Green said:

I think Pull-Push Terriers were confined to the Isle of Widget by that time ........ as ever, Bradley will advise.

 

Maybe this is an opportunity to remind the Trade that a 'D1' would be useful ..................................

 

1 hour ago, Nick C said:

I agree with Wickham Green on this one - as far as I know the only PP fitted Terriers post-grouping were the ones on the Island (and not all of them, not all of the time anyway!), with mainland services in the hands of D1 and D3 tanks (and later M7s and Hs as they moved into the ex-LBSCR area)

 

PP locos could be easily spotted by the extra air pipes under the headstocks, as per Edwardian's photo. The IOW locos were of course also fitted with Air brakes. (as did some, but not all, of the mainland ones, in addition to Vacuum). The rest of the gear was, I think, between the frames - unlike the O2s which had it on the left-hand-front footplate under the air pump.

 

Thanks, both, and that makes perfect sense.  To be frank, it was only the presence of 644 at Kemp Town up to 1933 that made me think that Terrier PP might have continued there after Grouping. 

[No Decorum]

On 24/01/2020 at 10:36, Wickham Green said:

Maybe this is an opportunity to remind the Trade that a 'D1' would be useful ..................................

Neat design. More powerful than the D. Useful prototype. Inside valve gear. Small tender express loco. Operated where people nowadays are [supposed to be] wealthy. Compatible models available.

 

Darn! I should have put boxes in front of those comments for manufacturers to tick.

 

Darn, darn! I might have put them off producing a K4.

[Oldddudders]

8 minutes ago, No Decorum said:

Neat design. More powerful than the D. Useful prototype. Inside valve gear. Small tender express loco. Operated where people nowadays are [supposed to be] wealthy. Compatible models available.

 

Darn! I should have put boxes in front of those comments for manufacturers to tick.

 

Darn, darn! I might have put them off producing a K4.

I believe Wickham Green was referring to a Brighton D1 0-4-2 tank, not a SECR bogie express loco.