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Rails of Sheffield/Dapol/NRM Announce OO gauge Stroudley A1/A1X


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2 hours ago, Otis JB said:

 

Well I don't want to speak for you if you are happy with your model but Jenny Kirk, someone who is meant to be an impartial reviewer despite being 'friends with Rails', failed to mention the very noticeable design flaw of the gap on top of the cab and the prototypical inaccuracies of the BR version she had. I also don't think that is a way over simplistic judgment of Bachmann either, maybe you have too much loyalty to a brand like so many do in my opinion. I remember seeing a model news video from Mike Wild at Hornby magazine some time ago and despite the fact that it was just meant to be an unbiased, informative video, he admitted that he thought some of Bachmann's latest prices were a mistake and was quite surprised to learn that they weren't. 

 
And “your opinion “ which has taken wings over the last few weeks is getting perilously close to being offensive...and in my case is just that ....so withdraw that observation if you have any respect for the opinions of other forum members. Being combative is contrary to the rules of this forum. When you joined did you read them ?  If Jenny Kirk....a well respected member of the model rail community... reads this,I wonder what her reaction would be ? On the one hand you quote her to substantiate a point you make and yet on the other you are clearly defamatory. You obviously  have a big problem. Please take it elsewhere.

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1 hour ago, Ian Hargrave said:

 
And “your opinion “ which has taken wings over the last few weeks is getting perilously close to being offensive...and in my case is just that ....so withdraw that observation if you have any respect for the opinions of other forum members. Being combative is contrary to the rules of this forum. When you joined did you read them ?  If Jenny Kirk....a well respected member of the model rail community... reads this,I wonder what her reaction would be ? On the one hand you quote her to substantiate a point you make and yet on the other you are clearly defamatory. You obviously  have a big problem. Please take it elsewhere.

 

Might I point out that I have only been trying to defend my previous words when you have replied to them. I did not write any of this seeking the hassle of an argument. I am very sorry if I have offended you with my opinion but I would like to state that it is just that. I thought the point of a forum was to share your opinions with others and I don't see why we cannot politely disagree with each other. Additionally, on the point of Jenny Kirk, quoting somebody doesn't mean you agree with them on every matter, if that were true how would any history book or paper about any famous military leader be written!? Maybe I am being too pessimistic and harsh but many others share my assessments of these issues and I only wrote what I did previously to start/reignite a discussion. The lat thin I want to do is to make you feel bad, I would never write anything to intentionally harm, maybe it would be best if we just drew a line under this conversation and walked away respectfully. I for one would rather read people's verdicts on their received models and share mine when I get my terrier than squabble and be negative.

 

Kind regards,

 

Otis 

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If that is your intention then reflect upon exactly what you have posted and consider its possible effect on those whom it might offend.As Andy Y often quotes,think twice and pause before you press submit.That might have prevented this situation .Your “opinion “ does not give you licence to cause unnecessary offence.,especially as it is just that and only that.

There are many here whose opinion is respected because they post with a background of both experience and knowledge..

 

If you have an axe to grind about quality and value in general then again I remind you this particular thread is not the place  to ignite a bonfire .Take a leaf out of your own book and cease negativity.

 

 

 

 

 

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17 minutes ago, Jenny Emily said:

I felt my ears burning.....

 

I’ve put my Rails Terrier side by side with the Hornby one and am struggling to find what people are complaining about with regards to the cab roof. 
 

BEA5B360-239A-40E7-83B0-7FC4BDA840F1.jpeg.811d968463808e51eb1269ff218a658b.jpeg


lol 

 

it’s not the front of the cab roof that is being discussed it’s the way the cab rear sheet forms part of the rear edge of the roof. The joint is not as noticeable on the black versions than it is on the white roofed versions. 
D4D0B289-0282-4B47-8011-07A709665028.jpeg.a05820ee10a4292b01f9b115791056a2.jpegD91B1B7D-9AD0-482A-B825-1D877730B58F.jpeg.b6e05be26074047f99b233957162b427.jpeg

 

It is perhaps  more of an issue for some than others but could have been avoided. 

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That’s my pair from the rear. 
 

    0007A0E1-63AE-415C-B8D1-6E69D8BCC560.jpeg.13c90a0cad469459670709945f58f5b5.jpeg
 

I’ve been running both of these, and have to say of more importance to me is that the Rails one is a far more reliable runner. Hasn’t stalled once whilst the Hornby one sulks at every point frog.
 

I had to really hunt for what was being talked about. Maybe it is less visible on the black ones, but is that really what people don’t like? My feeling is that if that puts a buyer off the Rails Terrier, then maybe they had already decided they didn’t want one long before they found that fault. 

 

Edited by Jenny Emily
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Jenny

It's not just the visible join in the cab roof, it's the fact that the cab back doesn't go down far enough.  My Bodiam is like that and, from your photo, so is your black one.  This means that the gutter which should be level all the way round is slightly higher at the back.

I admit it's not much and wouldn't worry a lot of people but, to me, it is as noticeable as the lack of a tank top recess was in the first Hornby Terriers.  It would be just as difficult to fix as the cab is glued in place and the back glued to the cab.

The 0 gauge Terrier was exactly the same but the join was invisible.  Obviously the tooling for the 00 version is not so accurate.

Just as a matter of interest (having watched your review) the chimney on your black model represents the later all cast iron chimney.  This is 3'' shorter than the original Stroudley copper capped version.

I have both Hornby and Rails Terriers.  Neither are perfect but it won't stop me buying more of both makes !

Rodney

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5 hours ago, Jenny Emily said:

I had to really hunt for what was being talked about. Maybe it is less visible on the black ones, but is that really what people don’t like? My feeling is that if that puts a buyer off the Rails Terrier, then maybe they had already decided they didn’t want one long before they found that fault. 

 

 

I have a Rails one on order and I will still get that as I am from the school of not cancelling pre-orders. But, as it stands this will be my only Rails one and that cab has a lot to do with it.

 

Right at the beginning I pinned my colours to the Rails mast and decided that the Hornby one was not for me. However, with the improvements since made by Hornby, and with what we are seeing with production Rails version, I now have two Hornby Terriers on order. Yes, I still believe that it is slightly inferior, but the Rails offering no longer offers me value for money given its deficiencies.


Roy

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10 hours ago, Jenny Emily said:

I’ve been running both of these, and have to say of more importance to me is that the Rails one is a far more reliable runner. Hasn’t stalled once whilst the Hornby one sulks at every point frog.

 

 

 

That's quite interesting, I was super impressed with my Hornby Terrier for running smoothly over point work that almost every other loco was stuttering on, I guess performance really does vary from model to model 

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On 10/07/2020 at 15:51, Silly Moo said:

Back to Terriers, could anyone recommend suitable loco crew figures? 
 

I have a single 0 scale Terrier and ordered figures from Modelu, one of them was too tall to fit in the cab and had to have his legs shortened so I know that finding suitable figures to fit in an 00 Terrier cab could be tricky. 
 

I was hoping that one of the 3D companies might produce some figures especially for the new Terriers both Hornby and Dapol. 
 

 

Try Hardy's Hobbies.

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On 12/07/2020 at 17:46, Roy Langridge said:

 

I have a Rails one on order and I will still get that as I am from the school of not cancelling pre-orders. But, as it stands this will be my only Rails one and that cab has a lot to do with it.

 

Right at the beginning I pinned my colours to the Rails mast and decided that the Hornby one was not for me. However, with the improvements since made by Hornby, and with what we are seeing with production Rails version, I now have two Hornby Terriers on order. Yes, I still believe that it is slightly inferior, but the Rails offering no longer offers me value for money given its deficiencies.


Roy

 

Exactly what I've been saying this whole time!

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34 minutes ago, Otis JB said:

 

Exactly what I've been saying this whole time!

 

14 minutes ago, Otis JB said:

 

Hi Jenny, I didn't mean to 'slate you off' on my earlier posts, yours doesn't look as bad as I remember in these photos which is quite interesting and I'm sorry if I judged your verdict too quickly. As I'm sure you will have picked up on, I am quite frustrated. Maybe you were quite lucky as I think there seems to be a huge amount of variety between each variant and each individual model and there have been many stories of broken parts, bent running plates and noisy runners, your BR version is also prototypically inaccurate in a few ways. While maybe these things or the risk of them may not be a deal clincher for some, I still think that it is rather unfortunate considering the constant promises of 'pedigree' from Rails and how much more expensive it is than the Hornby model. You can also look at what others do for £110 and many manufacturers have made many other models that don't have any design or prototypical flaws, or a massive wait for delivery. 

 

Kind regards,

 

Otis 

 

 

Ad nauseum. 

 

Rob. 

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Hi All.

 

I have acquired five of the Hornby terriers and am very pleased with them. There are a couple of Rails ones which I would like to get, but I have been put off by the reports of the assembly problems, in particular the twisted footplates. Without wading through all the previous posts on this blog, can anyone advise if these problems are particularly prevalent on certain locos or if they afflict all the types ?

I think that the problems with the running on the Hornby model are due to the rather flimsy pickups they are using which are not very positive in maintaining contact as the wheels move from side to side. This problem  is not exclusive to Hornby, as I have found that those on Hattons P class and Andrew Barclay and some other recent locos are very similar. Have other members found the same problems ? I have made careful adjustments with a fine pair of tweezers, but avoided applying too much pressure as they will snap off.

All the best

Ray

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On 09/07/2020 at 19:03, Otis JB said:

Well I suppose it does compared to the likes of Bachmann and Heljan's prices but maybe not when compared with the competition. Additionally, if you take Hornby's new Rocket, while not perfect it effectively costs the same as these terriers if you estimate each coaches' worth at £20 (a considerably low estimate) which is quite astonishing considering its' size, detail and fidelity. Just because Bachmann values their new 0-6-0 at £130+ doesn't mean it's worth it.


Value is only created when something has Utility and Warranty.

.. ie it looks like what you expect and works like you expect.

 

How well it provides both determines value.

A Lima 117 looks less like a 117 than Bachmanns.

A Lima 117 certainly doesnt work as well as Bachmanns.

So the lima one, to me has less value than the Bachmann one.

 

Thats really the only fair comparison you can make, as thats the only two 117’s on the market.

 

if you want to compare Realtracks 2 car 156 (£230) to Bachmanns 3 car 117 (£314). Then your comparing Apples and Pairs, but the price of fruit is still comparable.

 

If you want to compare Rocket to 117, then I dont see the point, theyve never met in Reality, your not comparing multiple units, nor even relevant technology, merely comparing a plastic model to another... why not compare a Class 117 to a £20 CD player.. both plastic, from china with a 12v motor ? Or How about a class 117 to a £300 Mercedes wing mirror... again plastic with a 12v motor..
 

simplistically speaking... Theres no electrics in Rockets coaches, no lighting, no complex couplings... Rocket is in essence a n gauge model on oo gauge wheels with a bunch of wagons behind it..It doesnt even have that many separate detailed parts. Nice, Delicate, Highly accurate, but a DMU it is not.
 

I value both at their pricing, I suspect though Hornby is laughing more than Bachmann at what price for what, especially on volumes sold.

 

Value is only what you see, if you don't see the value, then its just not the right model for you, but it doesn't make it not worth it to others.

 

 

 

 

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8 hours ago, adb968008 said:

How well it provides both determines value.

A Lima 117 looks less like a 117 than Bachmanns.

A Lima 117 certainly doesnt work as well as Bachmanns.

So the lima one, to me has less value than the Bachmann one.

 

Thats really the only fair comparison you can make, as thats the only two 117’s on the market.

 

 

 

As you say that "value" has a personal choice element also. My middle son* would rather have two Lima 117s and be able to enjoy running them together or past each other, than have one Bachmann one. His "value" comprises different elements and he is probably not so worried that "A Lima 117 looks less like a 117 than Bachmanns", but has a play factor instead. Me, I will go down the Bachmann route when I need a 117 as my values tie in with yours.

 

Each to their own, and quite right. 

 

*he is 13 but I think this also is true for some older modellers.

 

Roy

Edited by Roy Langridge
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But going back to Terriers it is much more personal.

 

You could get 3 Hornby for 2 Rails terriers. or 1 Hornby plus a coach and a couple of wagons for 1 Rails. 

 

But it then depends on the ERA and how accuracy comes into it and is firebox flicker more important than not etc. 

 

It all ends up very personal choice, I guess the Terrier is popular enough for both to exist and sell.

 

..... and so it goes on.

 

p.s. I guess with modern manufacture you will always get good uns and bad uns whatever you go for.

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On 15/07/2020 at 18:21, Roy Langridge said:

 

As you say that "value" has a personal choice element also. My middle son* would rather have two Lima 117s and be able to enjoy running them together or past each other, than have one Bachmann one. His "value" comprises different elements and he is probably not so worried that "A Lima 117 looks less like a 117 than Bachmanns", but has a play factor instead. Me, I will go down the Bachmann route when I need a 117 as my values tie in with yours.

 

Each to their own, and quite right. 

 

*he is 13 but I think this also is true for some older modellers.

 

Roy

 

True words (highlighted) Roy,

 

I'm an example of your last point. I have the OLD Hornby WC&PR Terrier (latest prod'n batch though) and was gifted a new Rails one 10 months ago for a major birthday; so a special present. What a treat I thought, until the delays began, problems, COVID, delays, problems (*2 it seems now). Still no sign and as I'd rather a present than a promise I swapped gifts for a delightful and faultless Peckett. I've since found out (but not yet confirmed by Rails) that limitations with the DCC socket would prevent my adding a stay alive to this loco. Something that I need for my present setting until I someday relay all my track.

 

Am I happy with my decisions? Very. Regarding the old Terrier, I've attended to my loco's average running by adding some better wipers and a stay alive. Then some notable coarse modelling features have been refined.

 

Knowing my luck and based on the reports for the Rails model, I'd have got a poor runner or faulty one. Deliveries and returns each are taking 2-3 months to/ from Oz and TBH I can do without all that hassle.  I might consider one if they ever get discounted, WC&PR being a somewhat niche market so it will be interesting to see how well they go with all the issues and delays.

 

I feel it was a huge pity that Rails caught a "100 year storm" during what promised to be a most exciting project and generally have handled matters very well.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by BWsTrains
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Well, I have a sound-fitted Terrier and I'm not very happy. I had to carry out a decoder reset several times to get it to respond, then the delay before it starts moving is far too long; I've adjusted the CVs to cut it in half and it’s now reasonable.—.though still too long.

 

The rear coupling mount is canted to one side so I'll need to adjust that too. Had this been pre-COVID it would have been returned.

 

The one good thing is that, once it started responding, the actual sound itself is pretty good.

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10 hours ago, Fireline said:

Well, number 5 has arrived, and I am pleased to report that it's good. Well done Rails, for your refusal to give up, and finding a good example! 

I just hope that one of the other four haven’t been sent to me! :unsure:

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On 21/07/2020 at 18:08, truffy said:

I just hope that one of the other four haven’t been sent to me! :unsure:

And now we all wait to see what the reworked batch, supposedly due at the end of this month, is like.

 

Will it be the model it should have been in the first instance ?

 

Or once a dog, always a dog ?

 

From a purely personal viewpoint, I sincerely hope it's the former.

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