Rails of Sheffield/Dapol/NRM Announce OO gauge Stroudley A1/A1X

[Edwardian]

13 minutes ago, Roy Langridge said:

 

Fair comment, but why yet another dig at Hornby? Unnecessary in my opinion. 

 

Roy

 

But fair.  A quite high proportion of the Hornby Terriers seem to have QC issues.  Did you see the chimney on the one I was considering?

 

I spoke to one retailer at a show last weekend, who said that some poor customers have had to have a Hornby Terrier returned and replaced 2-3 times before they got a good one. As the retailers have to deal with all of this, it's a bit of a trial for them, too.  When QC issues are not the exception, as seems to be the case here, I'm afraid I do factor it into my assessment of the model, and I'm certainly not going to agree that it's irrelevant or unfair to mention it. 

 

Whether Rails/Dapol will do any better, we yet cannot say, but I thought your criticism of a sample reminded of me nothing so much as the state of some Hornby production Terriers, so I said so.  Sorry. 

[Roy Langridge]

59 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

 

But fair.  A quite high proportion of the Hornby Terriers seem to have QC issues.  Did you see the chimney on the one I was considering?

 

I spoke to one retailer at a show last weekend, who said that some poor customers have had to have a Hornby Terrier returned and replaced 2-3 times before they got a good one. As the retailers have to deal with all of this, it's a bit of a trial for them, too.  When QC issues are not the exception, as seems to be the case here, I'm afraid I do factor it into my assessment of the model, and I'm certainly not going to agree that it's irrelevant or unfair to mention it. 

 

Whether Rails/Dapol will do any better, we yet cannot say, but I thought your criticism of a sample reminded of me nothing so much as the state of some Hornby production Terriers, so I said so.  Sorry. 

 

But that belongs in another thread, not this one which is about the Rails Terrier. 

 

Roy

[Edwardian]

1 minute ago, Roy Langridge said:

 

But that belongs in another thread, not this one which is about the Rails Terrier. 

 

Roy

 

Sorry, missed your Moderator badge there.

 

These two rival products will inevitably be compared, and it follows from that they will each be mentioned on the other's topic from time to time. 

 

This is developing into a pointless argument.

 

 

 

[Oldddudders]

59 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

Whether Rails/Dapol will do any better, we yet cannot say, but I thought your criticism of a sample reminded of me nothing so much as the state of some Hornby production Terriers, so I said so.  Sorry. 

Sadly I have to concur, as the owner of two Hornby items. Neither runs reliably. Getting a 6-pin decoder short enough is a trial - Zimo MX618N seems to fit, unlike Digitrax DZ126IN, or Bachmann 36-568 (made by Zimo) - but after running 2662 on rollers for nearly half an hour, placing it on the track produced not a twitch. Was the track dirty? Well, a Bachmann Atlantic had run steadily over it a dozen times in the previous half-hour, hauling 6 Hornby Maunsells, so probably not too bad. 

 

The fidelity issues that seem to suggest the Rails version is superior really don't bother me - but I prefer locos that run!

[Roy Langridge]

13 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

 

Sorry, missed your Moderator badge there.

 

These two rival products will inevitably be compared, and it follows from that they will each be mentioned on the other's topic from time to time. 

 

This is developing into a pointless argument.

 

 

 

 

How droll. However, I will remember that line next time you criticise somebody else’s post. 

 

All I was saying is you have, in numerous posts, shown preference for the Rails version, which incidentally is my choice also. Can’t we just give the deficiencies of the Hornby model a miss in this thread please?

 

Roy

[Edwardian]

I don't criticise other people's posts as a rule.  I didn't criticise yours. You just decided to start an argument.  Again, sorry. Can we leave it now?

[Edwardian]

Oh dear...

[friscopete]

The point to mention is they are both toy trains .Hornby are available in toy shops and Rails isnt .This matters as while we consider ourselves above such things the public dont .Most will never see a Rails version at least at present .So long term  the Hornby will be in shops for decades probably while Rails will cream off sales from a few cranks including me .it was great while there was no viable other option but for many including me the Hornby one is fine as will be the Rails  version which has already suffered  from the fact that Hornby has creamed off many buyers .Maybe not the creme de la creme buyers but Joe Public who in the end determines the viability not the pedantic few.

When I worked in model shops it was Joe Public who bought most models not the expert buffers who frigged around for years fretting about the accuracy  of a certain model .We wanted the guys who bought big RC tanks and blew them up  every week or guys that bought plastic kits  and never made them .Thats really what it was about.When the experts all came in moaning about this and that being missing we would nod in amazment at his knowledge while serving someone who actually bought stuff.

Edited April 23, 2019 by friscopete

[PhilH]

1 hour ago, Edwardian said:

 

But fair.  A quite high proportion of the Hornby Terriers seem to have QC issues.  Did you see the chimney on the one I was considering?

 

I spoke to one retailer at a show last weekend, who said that some poor customers have had to have a Hornby Terrier returned and replaced 2-3 times before they got a good one. As the retailers have to deal with all of this, it's a bit of a trial for them, too.  When QC issues are not the exception, as seems to be the case here, I'm afraid I do factor it into my assessment of the model, and I'm certainly not going to agree that it's irrelevant or unfair to mention it. 

 

Whether Rails/Dapol will do any better, we yet cannot say, but I thought your criticism of a sample reminded of me nothing so much as the state of some Hornby production Terriers, so I said so.  Sorry. 

 

Where were the figures published on this, I seem to have missed them. How do you know  'a quite high proportion of the Hornby Terriers seem to have QC issues'? Or is it your opinion posted as fact?

 

As I said in another thread it's understood that you are the Rails terrier brand ambassador but honestly this constant sniping is getting really old now and in my opinion, which I am posting as an opinion, is adding nothing to the debate.

 

 

 

Edited April 23, 2019 by PhilH

[Edwardian]

Jolly good.  For the record (again) [sigh], I have been consistently positive about the Hornby Terrier as a mid-range model, and, given the price point, it is a reasonable model that will naturally appeal to a different market segment from the Rails product, which is more refined, and higher spec as well as in most matters more accurate. It will be worth the money to the market segment that values those things. In short, they each have their virtues and they each have their place.  

 

I'm not sure that the nihilist approach, the belief that bothering with accuracy is pointless as wasted on people, is one I would accept. 

 

"Frigging around" concerning accuracy is what has, historically, lead to the quality and diversity we enjoy today.  EDIT: If Friscopete's assessment were the whole story, presumably we'd still be buying stuff like this ...

 

 

 

36 minutes ago, PhilH said:

 

Where were the figures published on this, I seem to have missed them. How do you know  'a quite high proportion of the Hornby Terriers seem to have QC issues'? Or is it your opinion posted as fact?

 

 

 

 

 

  

 

Oh dear, lots of people intent on squabbling this evening.  Anecdotally, that is my impression.  That is why I used the word "seem".  I did post somewhere that 4 out of the first five I saw pictured had quite serious issues, several people have raised QC and I had a serious issue with the one I had.  I cited what I was told by a retailer concerning the high incidence of returns, which I think alone justified the remark. 

 

I could resent the criticism, the apparent snideness of simply dismissing everything I've checked, researched, measured and written as "brand ambassadorship".  I could be sarcastic and ask about all the valuable research and input you've put into the subject, but, hey, anyone who reads my stuff will know that it's researched and always tries to be objective. About both models.  You're just flaming. I'll stand by my record. 

Edited April 23, 2019 by Edwardian
Sorry, thought I'd managed to lose this post trying to add a picture, hence slightly repetitive post below!

[Edwardian]

40 minutes ago, PhilH said:

 

 

 

Duplicate post!

Edited April 23, 2019 by Edwardian

[truffy]

2 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

a higher spec, more refined, and generally more accurate Rails model is worth its price-point and will appeal to a different segment. 

 

And I trust you to be just as objectively critical of that model should it come to it. There has already been some (hopefully valuable) feedback given on the EP test shots, and (just as hopefully) this will be taken into account. But, if not, I expect that Dapol/Rails will be still held to account.

 

[Edwardian]

1 minute ago, truffy said:

 

And I trust you to be just as objectively critical of that model should it come to it. There has already been some (hopefully valuable) feedback given on the EP test shots, and (just as hopefully) this will be taken into account. But, if not, I expect that Dapol/Rails will be still held to account.

 

 

Thank you. I will certainly try my best.  Naturally, I have my preferences concerning what I look for in a model (other people have different priorities - which is fine, we're not all made the same), and I have a sense of where the 'Terrier Wars' will end up, but as I've said before, I think you need to have all the production models to compare before you can really call it. There were clearly mistakes shown by the Rails EP - I suspect that, if the archaeology was done, these would prove to be hangovers from the 7mm models.  That said, Oliver promptly posted that changes would be made, including the really serious issue regarding the spectacles, so there seems little point in dwelling on features that may well be amended.  Let's see what we get. I hope that I will be forgiven a certain optimistic expectation at this stage! 

[cctransuk]

1 hour ago, Edwardian said:

 

Thank you. I will certainly try my best.  Naturally, I have my preferences concerning what I look for in a model (other people have different priorities - which is fine, we're not all made the same), and I have a sense of where the 'Terrier Wars' will end up, but as I've said before, I think you need to have all the production models to compare before you can really call it. There were clearly mistakes shown by the Rails EP - I suspect that, if the archaeology was done, these would prove to be hangovers from the 7mm models.  That said, Oliver promptly posted that changes would be made, including the really serious issue regarding the spectacles, so there seems little point in dwelling on features that may well be amended.  Let's see what we get. I hope that I will be forgiven a certain optimistic expectation at this stage! 

 

We're not "... dwelling on features that may well be amended ..."; it's you who cannot resist any and all opportunities to trumpet the (in your opinion) superiority of the Rails / Dapol product, and to denigrate the Hornby version.

 

How you have the gall to say "... I have been consistently positive about the Hornby Terrier ...", and then add the rider "... as a mid-range model ..." to try and cover your previous demolition of it, is beyond me.

 

I thought that we had come to a mutual agreement that our positions on this subject were not poles apart, but you just cannot resist the opportunity to express your partiality - you really are your own worst enemy!

 

You may have answered this before - if so pardon my inattention - what, if any, personal involvement have you had in the research, design and / or development of the Rails / Dapol Terrier?

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[Edwardian]

Yawn

[adb968008]

oh boy, its hot in here tonight.

 

 

 

Edited April 23, 2019 by adb968008

[Edwardian]

A lot of people blowing hot air for sheer devilment.

 

It's not as if they ever have anything informative or informed to say. 

 

Sad.

[cctransuk]

10 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

A lot of people blowing hot air for sheer devilment.

 

It's not as if they ever have anything informative or informed to say. 

 

Sad.

 

..... or even answer a simple question !

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[Edwardian]

Answered it before, John, and you're just making mischief again, misrepresenting what I've said, trying to dismiss research as opinion, all the usual stuff. You seem to enjoy it/can't help yourself. You don't even seem to have the excuse of being a Hornby Fanboy; it's just that being tendentious is sport for you. I've learnt that, so I won't play any more. Bye.

[friscopete]

3 hours ago, Edwardian said:

 

"Frigging around" concerning accuracy is what has, historically, lead to the quality and diversity we enjoy today.  EDIT: If Friscopete's assessment were the whole story, presumably we'd still be buying stuff like this ...

 

 

 

  

 

 

You really dont know the model business do you Mate ?

[mikesndbs]

 

 

FFS, dozens of new post notifications and all about the locos just piffle. Take it to a PM please.

[Ian J.]

Two words: ignore list.

[Guardian]

On 22/04/2019 at 19:49, Edwardian said:

Today at York on the Locomotion stand, their exclusive Boxhill (sample):

 

Hi All

 

The finish already looks good to me - but the wheels (spokes) appear to be plastic? AFAIK, these have been announced to be die-cast...

 

Cheers

Mark 

[Pre Grouping fan]

23 minutes ago, Guardian said:

Hi All

 

The finish already looks good to me - but the wheels (spokes) appear to be plastic? AFAIK, these have been announced to be die-cast...

 

Cheers

Mark

Probably because its an early sample.

[The Stationmaster]

On 23/04/2019 at 20:09, Edwardian said:

 

Thank you. I will certainly try my best.  Naturally, I have my preferences concerning what I look for in a model (other people have different priorities - which is fine, we're not all made the same), and I have a sense of where the 'Terrier Wars' will end up, but as I've said before, I think you need to have all the production models to compare before you can really call it. There were clearly mistakes shown by the Rails EP - I suspect that, if the archaeology was done, these would prove to be hangovers from the 7mm models.  That said, Oliver promptly posted that changes would be made, including the really serious issue regarding the spectacles, so there seems little point in dwelling on features that may well be amended.  Let's see what we get. I hope that I will be forgiven a certain optimistic expectation at this stage! 

From a conversation I had today with somebody from Dapol I understand that the tooling changes are done (I know not what they are) and that further livery samples should be reaching the UK in the not too distant future.