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Rails of Sheffield/Dapol/NRM Announce OO gauge Stroudley A1/A1X


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The announcement does seem a little underwhelming for such a broad and varied class that has been crying out for retool, and I'm not as excited about it as I thought I'd be compared to the 12 Hattons Ps, I'm curious as to why they've announced Stepney in pesky BR black, I'd have thought they'd kick off with a slightly wider selection, certainly including the preserved Bluebell examples and an IOW one to guarantee a few more sales.. None of the ones they've announced seem like particularly exciting examples... ?

 

But what do I know aye?

 

Perhaps they're just testing the water, I hope they are a success =)

 

I mean it makes no difference to me, I prefer work-A-day SR examples of locos, but looking at it from Joe Public 's point of view, announcing newly tooled Terriers without the Stepney in as-preserved condition that everyone knows and loves seems like an odd decision. But I'm sure they know what they're doing and I expect many much-loved preserved ones will appear in due course. :)

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Well, brilliant news, although someone must have had some inside info for the recent posts about a 00 Terrier??

I just hope that they realise the front of side tank lubricators should not be there on the early models, the position of cab fittings needs sorting and that they get the step better than the 0 gauge version.

Excellent news and I have ordered one already but am just doing transfers for Stroudley lining and lettering so may order another to rename. Numberplates in brass etch already available.

Cheers

Ian

 

This is undoubtedly very good news, and this is undoubtedly going to result in a far better model than the previous RTR version.

 

It is also good to see both A1 and A1X catered for, and optional condensing pipes, and both wooden and iron shoes. We also have no coal rail, coal rail and blanked coal rail options.  Some thought has been put into catering for all the major variants in one tooling suite.  Full marks there.

 

The Boxhill art work prompts some concerns, however.

 

While there is a legitimate debate over the precise shade of IEG, and I tend to view faffing about over precise shades with some scepticism, and the artwork looks OK, the Dapol 7mm model opted very much for the yellow end of the spectrum, uncomfortably so, in my view.  I hope we have something more towards ochre in the OO version.

 

I do not understand why Boxhill has wooden brake shoes in the illustration?  She was one of the final batch of 1880 and was built with iron shoes, which look quite different, and was also Westinghouse fitted from new.

 

Thus, with the condensing pipes, (aside from the erroneous brake fittings) the planned model represents the locomotive from 1880 to 1898, when she was fitted with 14" cylinders and the condensing pipes would have been removed.

 

For 1898-1905 she would have run without the condensing pipes. I would have preferred this configuration (with the correct brake fittings, of course) and few pre-Groupers can venture back as far as the 1880s and 1890s if RTR support is a factor (for instance, it would be a stretch to run this early condition (1880-1898) Boxhill alongside Bachmann's 1911-condition E4). 

 

In March 1905 Boxhill  was converted to a 2-4-0 as one of the two pioneering motor-train fitted Terriers, though still without the condensing pipes in her case. There is some debate as to whether she was in IEG, Goods Green or an experimental green at this point.  The lining style was consistent with IEG and the name retained on the side tanks.  

 

At no stage was she fitted with wooden brake shoes, as the Rails/Dapol artwork depicts, so this needs to be corrected.

 

SE&CR No.751 (ex 654 Waddon) is depicted with her original boiler, so this puts the model at from February 1905, when she commenced service on the Isle of Sheppey Light Railway, to November 1909, when she received a replacement Wainwright boiler. I believe that she retained her wooden brakes up to the time of her boiler change, so her the artwork is correct in this regard.

 

Bodiam (ex No.70, Poplar) is a good choice.  When initially sold to the K&ESR, Brighton apparently out-shopped them in the new owner's blue livery, the only physical change being the removal of the Westinghouse equipment.  The model, then, would seem to represent Bodiam from her sale in 1901.

 

However, the artwork shows her with condensing pipes.  I don't have a picture of Bodiam in her original K&ESR condition, but as No.70 had 14" cylinders fitted in 1897, the expectation is that she lost her condensing pipes at that point.  Certainly her sister, Rolvendon (ex No.671 Wapping), sold in 1905, is pictured without condensing pipes, wearing the same K&ESR livery (No. 71 had 14" cylinders fitted in 1899, and would have lost her condensing pipes then).  It is possible this did not happen in the case of Bodiam, but it would be the exception to the rule if her pipes were not removed when her cylinders were replaced. EDIT: kindly a picture has been posted, so Bodiam is correct with condensing pipes, so Dapol's version looks good.

 

So it seems that Rails/Dapol plan for all the right tooling, but that the artwork shows a Morecombesque tendency not to have the right details necessarily in the right places, in the case of Boxhill, at least.  They need to pay attention to this, but, really, some excellent and charismatic models should be expected following this announcement.

 

Well done!

 

I will watch developments with interest.

Edited by Edwardian
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Am I the only one who saw the sign at Ally Pally and reactions went something along the line of:

 

1st - Ooooh, new OO scale A1X Terrier, must get a pre-order in for one ASAP

2nd - I had better sell my old Hornby ones while they are still worth something

3rd - Oh, Dapol are making them, I'll hold off ordering until I see the livery produced is error free...

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Nope not at all. I model GWR and some Southern and have an ex Dapol Terrier in the former and an olive green Hornby version. Both see light use and at this stage I doubt either will be replaced. With the forthcoming P class and B4 I doubt I will need another small tank of this ilk but will never say never. Whilst the Terriers have their shortcomings from Hornby and Dapol I can’t see myself splashing out any time soon. I completed my 250th open wagon last night and the arrival of the P class next week will see my 100th loco join the fleet. Both milestones have made me think but that won’t stop me buying what are essentials. I just think my money is better directed elsewhere.

 

Good luck to Rails and Dapol with this model. It has proved a cash cow in the past for manufacturers and an upgrade has been much requested. I’m just a little disappointed that we couldn’t have had some diversity. There are so many prototypes still to produce in rtr and surely others would have been equally as successful for a manufacturer.

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I decided after much mulling to order the late crest BR one this morning.  My existing fleet will be moved on with the exception of 'Brighton Works' until they do that one as a replacement.

 

Looking at Ebay however, seems someone listed a whole pile of old Terriers yesterday afternoon!!!

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Looking at the choice of liveries/numbers. Stepney IS there in BR livery (and it ran in this livery during its last boiler certificate) and the SECR Terrier will be popular. However as I have noted, no classic Bluebell Terrier, nor IoW examples.

HOWEVER, we are probably seeing the classic marketing strategy of initial releases not being in the most popular liveries (the exception to this rule seems to be the Hattons P Class), whereby the 'must have it now' crowd will buy the initial releases, AND buy another release later of the model they really want. This obviously doubles sales.

 

Personally I will be happy to wait for a second batch, especially when the inevitable niggles are ironed out.

Dapol have shown they can make excellent locos, as exemplified by the 68 and the Western. The B4, providing they sort out the chimney, also looks great!

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This is her the artwork is correct in this regard.

 

Bodiam (ex No.70, Poplar) is a good choice. When initially sold to the K&ESR, Brighton apparently out-shopped them in the new owner's blue livery, the only physical change being the removal of the Westinghouse equipment. The model, then, would seem to represent Bodiam from her sale in 1901.

 

However, the artwork shows her with condensing pipes. I don't have a picture of Bodiam in her original K&ESR condition, but as No.70 had 14" cylinders fitted in 1897, the expectation is that she lost her condensing pipes at that point. Certainly her sister, Rolvendon (ex No.671 Wapping), sold in 1905, is pictured without condensing pipes, wearing the same K&ESR livery (No. 71 had 14" cylinders fitted in 1899, and would have lost her condensing pipes then). It is possible this did not happen in the case of Bodiam, but it would be the exception to the rule if her pipes were not removed when her cylinders were replaced.

interest.

There is a photo in one of KESR stock guides showing Bodiam in 1906 with condensing pipes and wooden brakes.

 

post-15098-0-20247100-1521990907_thumb.jpg

 

Tough choice choosing which one to buy (and after 5 Ps plus all the other southern goodies, I can really only offered just one for now).

 

Hornby have done both Bodiam and SECR. I normally buy everything SECR, but surprisingly the Hornby model is close (if not up to 21st century standards). Bodiam gives me all the new features plus for the first time condensers.

 

The BR versions offer splashers without the sandboxes for the first time. Here I will probably wait for Fenchurch as preserved though.

Edited by JSpencer
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Eric Morecombe:

 

"I'm playing all the right notes, just not necessarily in the right order..."

 

Aha! I thought he had something against the Lancashire seaside resort - but that's Morecambe, as, I think, was Eric. On reflection Morecombe sounds more south of England, fitting the subject.

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There is a photo in one of KESR stock guides showing Bodiam in 1906 with condensing pipes and wooden brakes.

 

attachicon.gifimage.jpg

 

 

 

 

Thank you, that is helpful, and shows that there were exceptions to the removal of condensing pipes, and that, really, one has to have a photograph in order to be sure.  This is good news for that version (and I will amend my own notes accordingly!).

 

I still cannot understand why Boxhill is shown with wooden brake shoes, though.

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Thank you, that is helpful, and shows that there were exceptions to the removal of condensing pipes, and that, really, one has to have a photograph in order to be sure. This is good news for that version (and I will amend my own notes accordingly!).

 

I still cannot understand why Boxhill is shown with wooden brake shoes, though.

Does Boxhill have wooden brake shoes at the moment in the NRM/Shildon? If so then it's probable the model will represent the loco's preserved state rather than its original state. Edited by Ian J.
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The Boxhill art work prompts some concerns, however.

 

While there is a legitimate debate over the precise shade of IEG, and I tend to view faffing about over precise shades with some scepticism, and the artwork looks OK, the Dapol 7mm model opted very much for the yellow end of the spectrum, uncomfortably so, in my view.  I hope we have something more towards ochre in the OO version.

 

I do not understand why Boxhill has wooden brake shoes in the illustration?  She was one of the final batch of 1880 and was built with iron shoes, which look quite different, and was also Westinghouse fitted from new.

 

Thus, with the condensing pipes, (aside from the erroneous brake fittings) the planned model represents the locomotive from 1880 to 1898, when she was fitted with 14" cylinders and the condensing pipes would have been removed.

 

For 1898-1905 she would have run without the condensing pipes. I would have preferred this configuration (with the correct brake fittings, of course) and few pre-Groupers can venture back as far as the 1880s and 1890s if RTR support is a factor (for instance, it would be a stretch to run this early condition (1880-1898) Boxhill alongside Bachmann's 1911-condition E4). 

 

In March 1905 Boxhill  was converted to a 2-4-0 as one of the two pioneering motor-train fitted Terriers, though still without the condensing pipes in her case. There is some debate as to whether she was in IEG, Goods Green or an experimental green at this point.  The lining style was consistent with IEG and the name retained on the side tanks.  

 

At no stage was she fitted with wooden brake shoes, as the Rails/Dapol artwork depicts, so this needs to be corrected.

 

SE&CR No.751 (ex 654 Waddon) is depicted with her original boiler, so this puts the model at from February 1905, when she commenced service on the Isle of Sheppey Light Railway, to November 1909, when she received a replacement Wainwright boiler. I believe that she retained her wooden brakes up to the time of her boiler change, so her the artwork is correct in this regard.

 

Bodiam (ex No.70, Poplar) is a good choice.  When initially sold to the K&ESR, Brighton apparently out-shopped them in the new owner's blue livery, the only physical change being the removal of the Westinghouse equipment.  The model, then, would seem to represent Bodiam from her sale in 1901.

 

However, the artwork shows her with condensing pipes.  I don't have a picture of Bodiam in her original K&ESR condition, but as No.70 had 14" cylinders fitted in 1897, the expectation is that she lost her condensing pipes at that point.  Certainly her sister, Rolvendon (ex No.671 Wapping), sold in 1905, is pictured without condensing pipes, wearing the same K&ESR livery (No. 71 had 14" cylinders fitted in 1899, and would have lost her condensing pipes then).  It is possible this did not happen in the case of Bodiam, but it would be the exception to the rule if her pipes were not removed when her cylinders were replaced. EDIT: kindly a picture has been posted, so Bodiam is correct with condensing pipes, so Dapol's version looks good.

 

So it seems that Rails/Dapol plan for all the right tooling, but that the artwork shows a Morecombesque tendency not to have the right details necessarily in the right places, in the case of Boxhill, at least.  They need to pay attention to this, but, really, some excellent and charismatic models should be expected following this announcement.

 

Well done!

 

I will watch developments with interest.

The artwork reminds me of a widely-sold print from 40 or more years ago, of which I have a framed copy somewhere. It is to be hoped that this is just to whet the market’s appetite.
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Does Boxhill have wooden brake shoes at the moment in the NRM/Shildon? If so then it's probable the model will represent the loco's preserved state rather than its original state.

 

The possibility did cross my mind, but I don't recall a picture of the preserved Boxhill with wooden shoes.

 

If it were the other way around, I'd get it.  I mean if she was loco built with wooden shoes, preserved in early condition but retaining later fitted iron shoes in preservation, I could understand it.  Here it appears to be an oversight. 

 

The artwork reminds me of a widely-sold print from 40 or more years ago, of which I have a framed copy somewhere. It is to be hoped that this is just to whet the market’s appetite.

 

I hope so, too.  Plenty of time to adjust to get this right.  Of course, most other Terriers in this early condition would have had wooden shoes, so the combination of livery, condensing pipes, and wooden shoes is typical, it just doesn't work for the example chosen.

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Am I the only one who saw the sign at Ally Pally and reactions went something along the line of:

 

1st - Ooooh, new OO scale A1X Terrier, must get a pre-order in for one ASAP

2nd - I had better sell my old Hornby ones while they are still worth something

3rd - Oh, Dapol are making them, I'll hold off ordering until I see the livery produced is error free...

 

If it is a Rails commission will it not be RAILS who are checking the liveries?

 

 

Just a thought....

 

Les

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The announcement does seem a little underwhelming for such a broad and varied class that has been crying out for retool, and I'm not as excited about it as I thought I'd be compared to the 12 Hattons Ps, I'm curious as to why they've announced Stepney in pesky BR black, I'd have thought they'd kick off with a slightly wider selection, certainly including the preserved Bluebell examples and an IOW one to guarantee a few more sales.. None of the ones they've announced seem like particularly exciting examples... ?

 

But what do I know aye?

 

Perhaps they're just testing the water, I hope they are a success =)

 

I mean it makes no difference to me, I prefer work-A-day SR examples of locos, but looking at it from Joe Public 's point of view, announcing newly tooled Terriers without the Stepney in as-preserved condition that everyone knows and loves seems like an odd decision. But I'm sure they know what they're doing and I expect many much-loved preserved ones will appear in due course. :)

 

6 is good number to start with. More examples means diluting what people will buy. £110 for a single loco, £230 DCC sound fitted.

 

There are 2 of this batch I fancy, if the Bluebell ones were added (as preserved), that would increase the number. The thing is I cannot afford several at once (and I suspect many are the same), 1 a year is fine.

 

Of the 2 I fancy, I've been thinking about a new layout in 2019 based in SECR days either Queenborough or Headcorn. So as to have a light railway (justifying small locos like these) meeting a main line (run with the bigger main line SECR engines). The former Queenborough would be best suited to the SECR Terrier (although how to justify it with the post 1915 rolling stock and other SECR locos), Headcorn would justify better Bodiam (again her condition had probably changed by 1915). 

I am more biased towards Queenborough because of 1/ the P class and 2/ the KESR Headcorn station was quite a distance from the SECR one in those days which would require bigger baseboards.

 

Queenborough will be a pure DCC layout, which makes the older Hornby tooling less suited.

Bodiam really is a unique piece with those condensers and open coal rails and therefore far better than Honby's offering. While the SECR is more or less the same format albeit 21st century standards and without the blower pipe. 

 

Choices:

1/ buy both as plain locos and add DCC sound later (adding to a list postponed sound projects)

2/ buy the SECR one in DCC sound which fits the layout better

3/ buy Bodiam in DCC sound and imagine Colonel Stephens had lent a KESR Bodiam and EKR Radial (another odd ball I already have) to Sheppy light railway for a while!

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This is undoubtedly very good news, and this is undoubtedly going to result in a far better model than the previous RTR version.

 

It is also good to see both A1 and A1X catered for, and optional condensing pipes, and both wooden and iron shoes. We also have no coal rail, coal rail and blanked coal rail options.  Some thought has been put into catering for all the major variants in one tooling suite.  Full marks there.

 

The Boxhill art work prompts some concerns, however.

 

While there is a legitimate debate over the precise shade of IEG, and I tend to view faffing about over precise shades with some scepticism, and the artwork looks OK, the Dapol 7mm model opted very much for the yellow end of the spectrum, uncomfortably so, in my view.  I hope we have something more towards ochre in the OO version.

 

I do not understand why Boxhill has wooden brake shoes in the illustration?  She was one of the final batch of 1880 and was built with iron shoes, which look quite different, and was also Westinghouse fitted from new.

 

Thus, with the condensing pipes, (aside from the erroneous brake fittings) the planned model represents the locomotive from 1880 to 1898, when she was fitted with 14" cylinders and the condensing pipes would have been removed.

 

For 1898-1905 she would have run without the condensing pipes. I would have preferred this configuration (with the correct brake fittings, of course) and few pre-Groupers can venture back as far as the 1880s and 1890s if RTR support is a factor (for instance, it would be a stretch to run this early condition (1880-1898) Boxhill alongside Bachmann's 1911-condition E4). 

 

In March 1905 Boxhill  was converted to a 2-4-0 as one of the two pioneering motor-train fitted Terriers, though still without the condensing pipes in her case. There is some debate as to whether she was in IEG, Goods Green or an experimental green at this point.  The lining style was consistent with IEG and the name retained on the side tanks.  

 

At no stage was she fitted with wooden brake shoes, as the Rails/Dapol artwork depicts, so this needs to be corrected.

 

SE&CR No.751 (ex 654 Waddon) is depicted with her original boiler, so this puts the model at from February 1905, when she commenced service on the Isle of Sheppey Light Railway, to November 1909, when she received a replacement Wainwright boiler. I believe that she retained her wooden brakes up to the time of her boiler change, so her the artwork is correct in this regard.

 

Bodiam (ex No.70, Poplar) is a good choice.  When initially sold to the K&ESR, Brighton apparently out-shopped them in the new owner's blue livery, the only physical change being the removal of the Westinghouse equipment.  The model, then, would seem to represent Bodiam from her sale in 1901.

 

However, the artwork shows her with condensing pipes.  I don't have a picture of Bodiam in her original K&ESR condition, but as No.70 had 14" cylinders fitted in 1897, the expectation is that she lost her condensing pipes at that point.  Certainly her sister, Rolvendon (ex No.671 Wapping), sold in 1905, is pictured without condensing pipes, wearing the same K&ESR livery (No. 71 had 14" cylinders fitted in 1899, and would have lost her condensing pipes then).  It is possible this did not happen in the case of Bodiam, but it would be the exception to the rule if her pipes were not removed when her cylinders were replaced. EDIT: kindly a picture has been posted, so Bodiam is correct with condensing pipes, so Dapol's version looks good.

 

So it seems that Rails/Dapol plan for all the right tooling, but that the artwork shows a Morecombesque tendency not to have the right details necessarily in the right places, in the case of Boxhill, at least.  They need to pay attention to this, but, really, some excellent and charismatic models should be expected following this announcement.

 

Well done!

 

I will watch developments with interest.

 

Good Morning,

 

Thanks for all the comments made and the fantastic interest shown over the weekend. 

 

We are all aware that accuracy both of the model and the livery is very important and Dapol, ourselves and the NRM will be working closely together to ensure we have brilliant accurate models. 

 

In response to the comments regarding the artwork, please note the following:

 

1. The artwork of the Dapol model ‘THAMES’ (which was accurate for the as built condition with wooden brake blocks), was used for the NRM ‘BOXHILL’ , however the new 00 scale tooling will contain both types of brake blocks – wooden and cast, which we can adjust to individual models, so BOXHILL will have the correct cast brake shoes and condensing pipes, as portrayed in the museum.

 

2. S.E.C.R. number 751 – the artwork is correct.

 

3. K.E.S.R. ‘BODIAM’- the artwork is correct, we have pictures showing the locomotive with the condensing pipes.

 

We hope this helps.

 

Thanks

Oliver

Edited by Oliver Rails
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Quick question, will these be like the Bachmann exclusive models (eg TMC Horsebox, Invicta CCT, etc.) where after X amount of time the tooling would end up in the manufactures main range or would it be like the Model Rail Sentinel loco and any future Terriers would only be available through Rails & Locomotion models?

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It had to happen sooner or later. Well done Rails and Dapol. A good selection of the numerous possible liveries and configurations on this first batch plus the promise of many more to come with the mention of the IOW bunker etc. Ironically I have a Hornby one in pieces in the top drawer of the work bench waiting to have an extended bunker fitted!

 

I think an order for Bodiam may be on the cards this time (might have to sell the Hornby version of same loco) until such time as we see one in Umber brown or any of the Isle of Wight locos. As mentioned above, Bodiam went to the KESR (Rother Valley Railway as it was at that time)with the condensing pipes and small bunker etc. It went through various rebuilds over the years before rejoining the rest of the Terrier fleet at nationalisation. It had an extended bunker of somewhat different design to the Isle of wight locos.

 

Trouble is I have five of the old ones to decide what to do with now!

Edited by PatC
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Good Morning,

 

Thanks for all the comments made and the fantastic interest shown over the weekend. 

 

We are all aware that accuracy both of the model and the livery is very important and Dapol, ourselves and the NRM will be working closely together to ensure we have brilliant accurate models. 

 

In response to the comments regarding the artwork, please note the following:

 

1. The artwork of the Dapol model ‘THAMES’ (which was accurate for the as built condition with wooden brake blocks), was used for the NRM ‘BOXHILL’ , however the new 00 scale tooling will contain both types of brake blocks – wooden and cast, which we can adjust to individual models, so BOXHILL will have the correct cast brake shoes and condensing pipes, as portrayed in the museum.

 

2. S.E.C.R. number 751 – the artwork is correct.

 

3. K.E.S.R. ‘BODIAM’- the artwork is correct, we have pictures showing the locomotive with the condensing pipes.

 

We hope this helps.

 

Thanks

Oliver

 

Thanks for the rapid and helpful response.

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Good Morning,

 

Thanks for all the comments made and the fantastic interest shown over the weekend. 

 

We are all aware that accuracy both of the model and the livery is very important and Dapol, ourselves and the NRM will be working closely together to ensure we have brilliant accurate models. 

 

In response to the comments regarding the artwork, please note the following:

 

1. The artwork of the Dapol model ‘THAMES’ (which was accurate for the as built condition with wooden brake blocks), was used for the NRM ‘BOXHILL’ , however the new 00 scale tooling will contain both types of brake blocks – wooden and cast, which we can adjust to individual models, so BOXHILL will have the correct cast brake shoes and condensing pipes, as portrayed in the museum.

 

2. S.E.C.R. number 751 – the artwork is correct.

 

3. K.E.S.R. ‘BODIAM’- the artwork is correct, we have pictures showing the locomotive with the condensing pipes.

 

We hope this helps.

 

Thanks

Oliver

 

Hmm, Boxhill as preserved - I may well place an order - but it is not a 'must have' (like Stepney and/or Fenchurch would have been) so I'll probably wait until at least livery samples are seen...

 

Quick question, will these be like the Bachmann exclusive models (eg TMC Horsebox, Invicta CCT, etc.) where after X amount of time the tooling would end up in the manufactures main range or would it be like the Model Rail Sentinel loco and any future Terriers would only be available through Rails & Locomotion models?

A brave question, and one that I sense you won't get an answer to, as to do so may be an own goal in terms of generating sales.

I seem to recall that with Bachmann tooling is 'exclusive' until it is not - there is no up front announcment 'we have exclusive rights for X years'. And then of course some tooling really is exclusive, like the prototype Deltic in OO, but wasn't originally marketed any differently from City of Truro, Midland Compound etc all of which appeared as NRM exclusive models.

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For  the mighty Zarquons sake stop moaning about  it .Its lovely loco and will sell like hot cakes  .I will buy a few as I like them  and have been requesting a good one for years on this forum .I may even have been one of the people who kicked off a request  way back when .I was told buy the good,great  and godless that as Hornby already did one it would make no sense to make a better one .I will probably never look at a picture of the real thing as its boring and lifes too short ,at least for me .It will look like a Terrier ,have good detail ,great liveries ,and good running and some early favorites will have  the right smoke box or what ever the bit on the front that holds up the chimney is called .

 

 

Next a Buckjumper in all its forms  please.That will keep everyone quiet .I'll have  a blue one please .

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