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Rails of Sheffield/Dapol/NRM Announce OO gauge Stroudley A1/A1X


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Why should you have to open an account with somebody to buy something from them if you are an occasional (or single item) customer?   You simply pay for it and take it away or have it delivered to your nominated address.

 

I fully understand that if I buy something from most model railway retailers that I use they will include in their records various details about me but that does not make me an account customer in the way that I am an account customer with, for example, Jewsons. Equally if I were to be an account customer I would expect the usual way of dealing with account customers to apply to me - starting with the fact that I need not necessarily settle the whole of my outstanding invoices every month (albeit leading to my paying interest on the oustandings and so on).  Again I quote the example of Jewsons where when I ring the call centre to pay my bill the second thing I am asked is whether or not I wish to pay all the outstanding amount.  The same of course also applies to my credit card company where yet again I am what amounts to an account customer and in consequence am not obliged to settle my bill in full every month.

 

So yes - a retailer will obviously take details about you, especially if you will be buying for postal etc delivery which means they need your address, and yes they might take card details (subject to certain safeguards), and yes they might have a loyalty scheme which means they have a record for me and can mean I build up credits in that scheme.  But I'm still not an account customer in the generally applied and accepted meaning of the term where they bill me only at monthly or four weekly intervals (i.e. not necessarily when the goods are despatched) and in most cases I need not clear the full outstanding amount at that time albeit at a cost in subsequent interest payments.  Equally of course I need not necessarily build up any credit on my account - which would mean I am effectively lending them money free of charge.

 

It is obviously up to any business whether or not they wish to trade with their customers on that basis and it is equally down to the customer whether or not they wish to buy from that business under those terms only (should the business not offer a choice of trading terms).  By the way I don't use Ebay and I very definitely neither have nor wish to have a Paypal account because I have a bank account and a credit card account and that is quite enough for me and the model railway retailers I buy from seem perfectly happy that I pay them in that way.

 

 

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9 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

Why should you have to open an account with somebody to buy something from them if you are an occasional (or single item) customer?   You simply pay for it and take it away or have it delivered to your nominated address.

 

I fully understand that if I buy something from most model railway retailers that I use they will include in their records various details about me but that does not make me an account customer in the way that I am an account customer with, for example, Jewsons. Equally if I were to be an account customer I would expect the usual way of dealing with account customers to apply to me - starting with the fact that I need not necessarily settle the whole of my outstanding invoices every month (albeit leading to my paying interest on the oustandings and so on).  Again I quote the example of Jewsons where when I ring the call centre to pay my bill the second thing I am asked is whether or not I wish to pay all the outstanding amount.  The same of course also applies to my credit card company where yet again I am what amounts to an account customer and in consequence am not obliged to settle my bill in full every month.

 

So yes - a retailer will obviously take details about you, especially if you will be buying for postal etc delivery which means they need your address, and yes they might take card details (subject to certain safeguards), and yes they might have a loyalty scheme which means they have a record for me and can mean I build up credits in that scheme.  But I'm still not an account customer in the generally applied and accepted meaning of the term where they bill me only at monthly or four weekly intervals (i.e. not necessarily when the goods are despatched) and in most cases I need not clear the full outstanding amount at that time albeit at a cost in subsequent interest payments.  Equally of course I need not necessarily build up any credit on my account - which would mean I am effectively lending them money free of charge.

 

It is obviously up to any business whether or not they wish to trade with their customers on that basis and it is equally down to the customer whether or not they wish to buy from that business under those terms only (should the business not offer a choice of trading terms).  By the way I don't use Ebay and I very definitely neither have nor wish to have a Paypal account because I have a bank account and a credit card account and that is quite enough for me and the model railway retailers I buy from seem perfectly happy that I pay them in that way.

 

 

It keeps track of preorders and both you and the retailer can see at a glance whats the situation is regards those orders .We are dealing  with models that often dont appear for years and when they do sell out straight away .

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Thankyou, Mike, for offering a very comparable outlook to my own. 

 

It is truly flattering to have so many questioning my motivation in resisting opening an account with Rails. I repeat - and as Mike has highlighted - an account generally implies financial transaction, with scope for money to be owed. No retailer, Internet or otherwise, provides the goods or service without prior payment, for obvious sound reasons. So I would still need to authorise any future transaction. When Rails bought their online sales package, they opted not to include a fast-track (sorry) single-purchase checkout, as offered by a number of other firms. Those companies do not insist on registering my details on a database, to be used for future promos and offers, 99.9% of which will not be of interest to me. If I were to walk into Rails shop when it re-opens, I would not be required to register anything except my payment. As for after-sales service, well, the chances of me bothering to send a duff model back are remote. La Poste does not make it easy. 

 

Ebay requires every bidder to have an identity, which of course I have. The system couldn't work without it. That identity also carries a reputation, earned over 20 years or so, helping sellers to know I am not trouble. PayPal provides a separation between the seller and my financial details, and I certainly appreciate that. Amazon does the same, but includes the financial service in its registration. I make regular use of these firms, but the Rails purchase would not be the start of a similar relationship. 

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If a service provider requires me to have an account, and I perceive a value in doing business with them, I open an account. If I don't, I don't. This is why I have an account with Rails, but not with Facebook or Twitter.

 

The Rails account allows me to create a wish list, as well as pre-order items.

 

As noted above, if you don't want an account, but do want a Rails exclusive, you can put a call in over the speaking wire. If they haven't sold out on pre-order, you're golden, so to speak.

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I'm glad people realise that one word, in this case "account" can have multiple meanings, and in the case of an account on a website, or in a customer database has nothing to do with borrowing money, or any other form of financial transaction.

 

I shall give you this one from the dictionary as an example that might be a bit more relevant to the discussion at hand: "an arrangement by which a user is given personalized access to a computer, website, or application, typically by entering a username and password."

 

In the case of an online retailer it is used to link your details to your order, both of which will be stored in separate, very secure databases. So unless you want Rails to throw your order out the door and hope by magic that it reaches you, then it is probably best they have some form of access to your details, which they would not get from PayPal, as their is no way for them to link to information stored on PayPal's database, and they are not allowed to store it for themselves.

 

Hope that helps clarify everything for you both :)

 

Gary

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Not entirely sure why Rails are being singled out here for requiring an account, I thought that was normal? 

 

It's very useful for keeping track of my pre orders that's for sure! 

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Posted (edited)

I'm not sure what the objection is to having accounts with Rails, PayPal or other big retailers. It's "mostly harmless"* and the normal way of doing business on the Internet these days. These systems are used more to move money than to hold money (or debt).

 

* Let's say, "mostly harmless" because there is a small risk of your data being hacked but we have to trust these organisations to do everything possible to mitigate those risks. If they don't, the reputational damage of a hacking incident could be terminal for them!

 

A phrase that springs to mind is, "Don't cut off your nose to spite your face!"

 

Edited by Harlequin
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19 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

Ok Terriers? I think we have analysed the accounts thing to death ;) 


 

 

Very much looking forward to receiving 2644 =) as usual the best ones in Southern livery are being saved till last :p 

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2 hours ago, GreenGiraffe22 said:

Not entirely sure why Rails are being singled out here for requiring an account, I thought that was normal? 

 

It's very useful for keeping track of my pre orders that's for sure! 

It is a decision for the retailer to make, whether normal or not is neither here nor there.

 

I have made precisely two model railway goods pre-orders,  no account had to be set up on my part, both delivered as expected, well done NRM.

 

I likewise have pre-ordered all sorts of recordings and books from my preferred vendors, no account necessary.

 

And in my career I have had large scale CRM systems operating for large numbers of customers globally distributed. They didn't have to open accounts. Many chose to do so because incentives came with it, but it wasn't compulsory: and service delivery was equivalent with or without a client account. The Customer is King, wisest to offer the choice.

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23 hours ago, Torn-on-the-platform said:

Out of interest, anyone who has an order in for Bodiam, what are your reasons? Seeing the real thing at the preserved K&ESR? Modelling the original K&ESR? Just like the lovely livery?

 

 

I have Bodiam on order. It will go with my No.5 Rolvenden from Hornby. And they will appear from time to time alongside my SECR stock.

 

The model reflects the loco back around 1905 in A1 condition. On the KESR, preserved, she has carried the original KESR livery but that was in A1X condition (with some KESR modifications).

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Most websites usually have a guest checkout option. I set up an account with Rails when asked as I had no qualms about doing so, and also with Hattons, Kernow, eBay, Facebook, online car forums, online model train and model boat forums, and 7 of my local model shops. It speeds up transactions due to the fact you don’t have to keep putting your details in every single time you want to buy something.
 

I’m seriously not seeing the issue anyone has here. It’s not like they are asking for your social security, drivers licence number, and family tree. 

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Hilux5972 said:

 It speeds up transactions due to the fact you don’t have to keep putting your details in every single time you want to buy something.
 

 

 

'Fraid not in the case of Rails. Having used my 'account' to order something, I quickly went to check on the progress of said order and my current email address linked the account, used  the last five years and within the last couple of days to place the order, is now considered no longer valid. I cannot access my account.......

 

I will therefore contact Rails by telephone in future...........if only to ask them to delete my details........those they used to email me confirming my recent order...:banghead:

 

Rob. 

 

 

Edited by NHY 581
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Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, NHY 581 said:

I will therefore contact Rails by telephone in future...........if only to ask them to delete my details........those they used to email me confirming my recent order..

A bit of an overreaction, isn’t it? For numerous reasons I’ve decided not to deal with Hattons anymore, after halving used them as my primary source for many years. But I haven’t felt the need to delete my account, I just don’t use it. 

Edited by truffy
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1 hour ago, NHY 581 said:

 

 

'Fraid not in the case of Rails. Having used my 'account' to order something, I quickly went to check on the progress of said order and my current email address linked the account, used  the last five years and within the last couple of days to place the order, is now considered no longer valid. I cannot access my account.......

 

I will therefore contact Rails by telephone in future...........if only to ask them to delete my details........those they used to email me confirming my recent order...:banghead:

 

Rob. 

 

 

Probably just a technical or human glitch, which Rails will sort out for you. These things happen and the true test is how quickly they are fixed. Doesn't mean the whole system is bad for everyone, of course.

 

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Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

It is a decision for the retailer to make, whether normal or not is neither here nor there.

 

I have made precisely two model railway goods pre-orders,  no account had to be set up on my part, both delivered as expected, well done NRM.

 

I likewise have pre-ordered all sorts of recordings and books from my preferred vendors, no account necessary.

 

And in my career I have had large scale CRM systems operating for large numbers of customers globally distributed. They didn't have to open accounts. Many chose to do so because incentives came with it, but it wasn't compulsory: and service delivery was equivalent with or without a client account. The Customer is King, wisest to offer the choice.

Exactly so.  And to bring together the two things my 'Terrier' is on order with the NRM and I have, as it happens paid a deposit in accordance with their usual trading terms.   They obviously have various of my details - and have long had them - but all that happens is that I place an order and pay the appropriate amounts at the relevant time, simples.  

 

Only question now is when are the NRM Terriers likely to arrive?  Not a gut-busting lust for it on which the future of life, the universe, and everything depends but just as a matter of interest.

Edited by The Stationmaster
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, The Stationmaster said:

Only question now is when are the NRM Terriers likely to arrive?  Not a gut-busting lust for it on which the future of life, the universe, and everything depends but just as a matter of interest.

 

Locomotion/NRM haven't said when their model will arrive but their website states they won't be despatching any orders until they are back on site. So even if they arrive at Dapol with the rest of the Rails batch it could be a while before they arrive at Locomotion. 

Edited by Pre Grouping fan
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  • RMweb Gold
Posted (edited)
On 02/05/2020 at 19:13, truffy said:
  • We've travelled on the K&ESR several times. Happy memories.
  • We've visited Bodiam on the K&ESR.
  • I like the livery.
  • My youngest daughter's (the one who likes trains and TTTE) favourite colour is blue.

FWIW, I'm happy that it's being presented as in service, not as preserved. Generally, I don't go for 'as preserved' liveries.


most preserved railways aren’t preserved, indeed very few recreate their past accurately. I think railway modellers probably do that much more. Some aspire too, but most just seem to collect as a random living museum of artifacts... so “Tourist Railway” or “Museum Railway” is probably a better term. They exist for tourists afterall, and their stock, locos and line is often designed, modified in such a way as to support that, rather than preserving historical accuracy, often to the detriment of the local history that surrounds them.
 

Many tourist railways have now been around longer, than rolling stock built after those lines became established...I always find it amusing that 73082 (1955) is only 3 years older than the line it resides on closed (1958), but yet has been working condition on the Bluebell decades more than it ever worked on BR...it’s effectively preserved in its “preservation era service ” condition, making its own post BR history... 73082 away from Bluebell some how would seem wrong... of course back on track but Stepney as anything but Stepney would also seem wrong.

Edited by adb968008
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If I want to represent 2644 in unlined black Bulleid Sunshine livery which would the best example to modifty. 

 

Here's a prototype photo. 

 

Ex-LBSCR Stroudley A1X 'Terrier' 0-6-0T no. 2644 taken from the platform at Hayling Island Station facing east across the throat of the goods yard. The ex LMS 20t Brake Van, when BR rebranded, served on the line until its closure some 25+ years later. 2644 would receive BR branding in April 1948 whilst allocated to Fratton shed but would move across country to Ashford in April 1949 and it was there that withdrawal symptoms set in exactly two years later. [Mike Morant collection]

 

Thanks in advance, 

 

Mark

 

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8 hours ago, 46444 said:

If I want to represent 2644 in unlined black Bulleid Sunshine livery which would the best example to modifty. 

 

Here's a prototype photo. 

 

Ex-LBSCR Stroudley A1X 'Terrier' 0-6-0T no. 2644 taken from the platform at Hayling Island Station facing east across the throat of the goods yard. The ex LMS 20t Brake Van, when BR rebranded, served on the line until its closure some 25+ years later. 2644 would receive BR branding in April 1948 whilst allocated to Fratton shed but would move across country to Ashford in April 1949 and it was there that withdrawal symptoms set in exactly two years later. [Mike Morant collection]

 

Thanks in advance, 

 

Mark

 

 

I'm thinking 32655, early logo BR Black, for general arrangement. Obviously a repaint would be required.

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2 minutes ago, Ian J. said:

 

I'm thinking 32655, early logo BR Black, for general arrangement. Obviously a repaint would be required.

 

Thanks Ian. That's what I was thinking.

 

Not being totally acquainted with the Terriers it's good to get some advice. 

 

Cheers, 

 

Mark 

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