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I very rarely post on RMweb, I just don't have time to explore everything on here. I have been following the various Terrier threads over recent months as I have a soft spot for them, both real and model. The promise of vastly improved models from both Hornby and Rails/Dapol resulted in me selling off most of the old Dapol/Hornby locomotives that I've acquired over the last thirty years or so. My Rails KESR A1 arrived this morning and having just had a good look over and a quick test run I have to say it is a truly splendid model. What on earth are people complaining about? 

 

It's a model, therefore there will be compromises. For £110 it is an outstanding piece of work and the people at Rails and Dapol fully deserve our congratulations and thanks, not our derision. At the end of the day, if you don't like it, don't buy it and go and build a kit instead ( which will cost a lot more). Frankly I'm still amazed that we can buy such fine models so cheaply. Have a look at the price of something similar in European HO.

 

 

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19 minutes ago, Ian J. said:

My 32661 has arrived. No pictures at the moment as I'm 'at work' albeit at home.

 

It looks beautiful, just like a Terrier. Of the issues discussed only the coal rails really stand out, and 'in the flesh' actually don't look that bad.

 

Things to do then:

 

Replace coal rails;

Remove air brake pipe;

Add vacuum brake pipe (not in bits bag);

Add steam heat pipe (in bits bag);

Remove and reposition smokebox door number plate;

 

It would have been nice to have the brake pipes correct, and the smokebox door number positioned right but these aren't deal breakers. This is without a doubt the strongest starting point to get a 'perfect' Terrier to start from.

 

Well done Dapol and Rails. A little extra effort and I believe this could very well be a 'best of breed'.

 

:)

 

Thanks Ian, I’ll get some vac pipes for my dual fitted locos on order.

 

Cheers

 

Andy.

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57 minutes ago, jonnyuk said:

for me, the rails Terrier should have no mistakes, It's £30 more, been delayed and delayed (and not just because of COVID19) sighting "getting it right".

 

Having said that, for me personally the one thing that bugs me about the Hornby version is the glazing, when compared to the Rails one it stands out, is that and a fire box glow worth spending £30 more on, not too sure.

 

And my last sentence is the crux of it, can "you" justify to your self the extra £30, for me no as 30 notes buys me a mk3 sliding door carriage :)

 

When does a tooling  compromise for manufacturing become a mistake?

 

The tank tops and the position of the buffers are to me a far more significant visible detail than many of the "errors" that are being quoted. They are certainly points worth paying £30 to have right.

 

The only quibble that I have, now that I have actually got hold of one, is the vac pipes are more like Westy pipes. Easily changed and it is detail that I often change  on other models and I keep a bag of them.

 

I like the firebox flicker and find it not over intrusive. Mine runs well but has to be driven with care to enter the curve of a point at the top of a gradient.

 

I think a fair comparison is not with the Hornby model but with an equivalent small tank loco. The Bachmann J72 for example. This model certainly knocks spots off of that in respect of VFM and all round accuracy and neatness of detail.

 

Bernard

 

 

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I'm sympathetic to the disappointment being reasonably expressed here, it strikes me as particularly understandable given the stacked delays of various origins, being as they were, usually accompanied by a comprehensive press release and appetite building reassurances of "correct, down to the finest detail", along with the somewhat unquantifiable "museum quality". As for the emotive denouncing of the whole model or the entire Rails brand, I think this has been suitably rebuffed above.

 

To add a slightly different angle to discussions, it does strike me as a pity that the range wasn't able to launch with the Boxhill variants, as seemingly planned. These early versions look truly stunning from all images I've seen so far and likely would have been better set to weather the particularly judgemental hunger that comes with a first delivery. It's a pity the rest of the range is riding in under the shadow of this rather than on the wave of celebration I think would have accompanied Boxhill. I trust that in the coming months when all variants have been delivered that most will be able to make a balanced judgement on the whole range, taking into account the various pros and cons of each model.

 

As for the £30 price difference. I feel there is an overall refinement to the Rails offering which is supperior to that of the, also very good, Hornby model. This is, of course, a subjective point and I accept some may prefer the visuals of the alternative. Looking at a purely feature based criteria though, the price jump brings both an illuminated firebox and factory fitted speaker. Once again, if these are of value or use is up to individual, but they do represent a clear justification of a significant portion of the price leap. As seems to be the conclusion in so many threads, you pays your money and you takes your choice. 

 

I'm personally still gleefully anticipating my terrier in due course, being thankful that the issue doesn't affect my planned variant. I'm also equally excited for the eventual arrival of the D class, but I do concede that the events of this release have impacted at which point I will have the faith to lay down a deposit or pre-order for that project.

 

I hope the Terrier is an overall success, that Rails and Dapol continue to learn and grow both individually and in partnership, and that many more models lay ahead.

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If we were all in a room together (preferably a pub!) and could see each other's facial expressions and mannerisms, we would probably find that we could have had a nice discussion about the comparisons and comprimises that would not have become so heated. I think there is maybe an assumption that those who are not wholly satisfied are banging their fists on the desk and snorting steam out of their nose! I'm sure that isn't the case (for most of us at least!).

 

I am awaiting my 32655 (ordered for pick up, but aware Rails must be very busy so I will await them contacting me as they tend to do, to discuss options), and when the pictures were published, I must admit I was (quietly) disappointed by the c**l r**ls, as they, to me, are an important feature of the shape and character of the particular locomotive that I have chosen. I am however reassured by Jenny Kirk's video review and the astonishingly fantastic photos from twitter above from 'West Hill Wagon Works' that it is still an absolutely superb model, and whilst not right, the bunker isn't as big a detraction as I was concerned it might be.

 

For some, it may well be an issue big enough to cancel an order, we all have different tollerances and opinions. I don't think their opinion is any less valid, nor is the opinion of those who are not bothered by it in the slightest. Whilst it isn't usually my way, I would like to reserve the right to calmly identify errors on a £110 tank engine in a public forum where debate and opinion is encouraged.

 

I hope that everyone who buys a terrier derives huge enjoyment from it. I anticipate that after my initial two purchases, my resolve will crack and buy more! I also hope that those who choose to not part with the money, derive the same enjoyment from whatever else they spend their money on. Finally from me until I receive my models, when I will post photos, I wish Rails and Dapol the best success with this venture.

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7 minutes ago, Tiny151 said:

it does strike me as a pity that the range wasn't able to launch with the Boxhill variants, as seemingly planned. These early versions look truly stunning from all images I've seen so far and likely would have been better set to weather the particularly judgemental hunger that comes with a first delivery.

 

With respect to the preserved version of 'Boxhill' for the Locomotion exclusive edition:

 

It's a small but unfortunate consequence of the current situation that Locomotion is closed until a yet to be determined date and as such that version could not be shipped from the factory (as that would have required payment which cannot be processed at present) and there would be no-one available at the museum to accept the consignment or store them let alone process the orders. Some of those orders would have only had deposits paid and their systems are not open to process payments even if fulfilment were possible so it's a whole basket of complexities. Only when everything is back to functioning can that stalled process be restarted but I know they are as keen as anyone to complete the orders. It certainly looks rather special and I've been able to look at the accompanying informative booklet which is a nice little extra in its own right.

 

Good things will come to those who do wait.

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Posted (edited)

Mine will be coming from the NRM.  I have ordered one because I liked Terriers (yes, I saw them in their later working days) and because my purchase will help support the NRM, simple as that.  And it is something I look forward to with no worries about the fact that it will take longer to reach me than models curremtly arriving via Sheffield.

 

Now when it comes to making models for mass production and speaking from experience of involvement with the development  of a model which despite its good points received a lot of hammering because of a minor visual fault what is far easier to say than do is criticise an error.  Masses of research goes into most models nowadays - which takes time and costs money; in order to keep prices down production engineering is on the other side of the world, as in many cases is design, which means communication can take time (even with email), most of those involved in such communication are also dealing with other things at the same time, and finally whatever anybody might think 'the thing' has to be capable of mass production and assembly at a cost which will enable a profit to be made in order to finance the future of the company involved in the UK.  In other words there is room for minor errors however careful you are, there is room for errors because you run out of time, and there is room for discrepancies because the thing has to be capable of being made at a realistic cost in order to sell at an acceptable price.

 

And the more detail differences there were on the real thing the more chances there are for production costs to take the lead role and for research not to reveal every tiny detail to the nth degree.  That's life - end of.   So yes -sometimes there may be criticism in respect of detail items those voicing it really need to consider that it should be against the background I have outlined.  That's not an excuse for detail errors or misprepresentations but to illustrate what is involved, bear it in mind.  And don't get personal because I doubt if anyone cares as much as those who have done the detail research in an effort to get things right.

Edited by The Stationmaster
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Mine arrived like this and I was about to send it straight back but the pipe is slightly loose and I was able to gently nudge it back into position. The cab rails look a bit wonky so I will have a look at those too. I’ll reserve judgement for now. 
 

I will go over it very carefully and give it a test run tomorrow. I am very impressed with the packaging and paperwork that comes with the model. I’m one of those who probably would have been very happy with the Hornby model as I don’t know enough about the finer details of the class to compare the two (I did however notice the wonky pipe straight away) . I am, however very pleased that we have an expert here who has helped get it as close to the prototype as possible. 

8EF3F742-3962-4201-858D-85AE1B960D36.jpeg

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Mine was made on a Monday.
 

I decided to look very carefully at my loco, it has a detached handrail, badly fitted brake rodding that fouls one of the wheels and glue on the dome. It also looks as though it has already been run. There is an oily finger print on the top of the body. 
 

It will be going back without me having test run it : ( 

 

I only hope there is someone at Rails who can find me a good replacement. 

 

If I hadn’t paid a premium for it I may have tried to remedy some of the faults myself but I shouldn’t have to do that should I? 

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31 minutes ago, Silly Moo said:

I only hope there is someone at Rails who can find me a good replacement. 

 

If anyone has any issues please make Rails the first point of contact rather than RMweb and allow them to address it.

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My Bodiam has some broken and detached pieces and a missing step.

I telephoned Rails and received a very courteous response.

They reserved a replacement and emailed me a prepaid returns label.

I only have to take it to a post office and get a receipt.

Unfortunately these things do happen, my first Hornby Terrier had to be exchanged.

Rodney

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2 hours ago, AY Mod said:

 

If anyone has any issues please make Rails the first point of contact rather than RMweb and allow them to address it.

why? they are simply saying their loco has some issues and they are sending it back, i don't think they said anything out of turn. all over this forum members tell others of their troubles with new loco's.

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22 minutes ago, jonnyuk said:

why

 

Why?

 

Because it's the first thing a consumer should do from a legal perspective. It's also the most respectful thing to the supplier.

 

Surely that's not too difficult to understand.

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This is  supposed to be a public forum , so that people can gather information about purchasing items whether good or bad, making things,  etc etc .

 

What is the point of saying anything about anything in that case ?, that is why Public Forums are created/exist as far as I aware. Perhaps I am wrong with that assumption. I have no problem with people being moderated for unreasonable behaviour , in this case surely its a fair question. I have read dozens of scathing comments on here re Hornby, Bachmann , et al , none have ever recieved this kind of response that I have ever read.

 

What has the legal perspective got to do with simple discussion between people re a product, again I would  agree if it becomes slanderous to the makers or constitutes criminal behaviour. If that is the case the post should be deleted as a minimum action, the posters contacted of line and warned or banned.

 

 

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9 hours ago, jonnyuk said:

for me, the rails Terrier should have no mistakes, It's £30 more, been delayed and delayed (and not just because of COVID19) sighting "getting it right".

 

Having said that, for me personally the one thing that bugs me about the Hornby version is the glazing, when compared to the Rails one it stands out, is that and a fire box glow worth spending £30 more on, not too sure.

 

And my last sentence is the crux of it, can "you" justify to your self the extra £30, for me no as 30 notes buys me a mk3 sliding door carriage :)

 


Explain to me what the Hornby Mk 3 sliding door carriage has to do with a Terrier.Unless of course you’re applying Rule 1.

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Just now, Ian Hargrave said:


Explain to me what the Hornby Mk 3 sliding door carriage has to do with a Terrier.Unless of course you’re applying Rule 1.

It's bigger:jester:

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8 minutes ago, micklner said:

This is  supposed to be a public forum , so that people can gather information about purchasing items whether good or bad, making things,  etc etc .

 

What is the point of saying anything about anything in that case ?, that is why Public Forums are created/exist as far as I aware. Perhaps I am wrong with that assumption. I have no problem with people being moderated for unreasonable behaviour , in this case surely its a fair question. I have read dozens of scathing comments on here re Hornby, Bachmann , et al , none have ever recieved this kind of response that I have ever read.

 

What has the legal perspective got to do with simple discussion between people re a product, again I would  agree if it becomes slanderous to the makers or constitutes criminal behaviour. If that is the case the post should be deleted as a minimum action, the posters contacted of line and warned or banned.

 

 

  Bit off course for you ?  Stop ranting  for goodness sake.

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26 minutes ago, micklner said:

This is  supposed to be a public forum , so that people can gather information about purchasing items whether good or bad, making things,  etc etc .

 

What is the point of saying anything about anything in that case ?, that is why Public Forums are created/exist as far as I aware. Perhaps I am wrong with that assumption. I have no problem with people being moderated for unreasonable behaviour , in this case surely its a fair question. I have read dozens of scathing comments on here re Hornby, Bachmann , et al , none have ever recieved this kind of response that I have ever read.

 

What has the legal perspective got to do with simple discussion between people re a product, again I would  agree if it becomes slanderous to the makers or constitutes criminal behaviour. If that is the case the post should be deleted as a minimum action, the posters contacted of line and warned or banned.

 

 

 

The point is that if you have a defective product, yelling about it on here won't get anything fixed. It doesn't matter if the product is a model locomotive or a washing machine, you take it back to the place you bought it from. That is the correct legal position, and the point @AY Mod was making. Time and time again, we find people demanding that they should go direct to a manufacturer because they consider themselves too important to do the correct thing, which is take it back to the shop. Pointing this out is hardly the terrible response you suggest it is.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

 

The point is that if you have a defective product, yelling about it on here won't get anything fixed. It doesn't matter if the product is a model locomotive or a washing machine, you take it back to the place you bought it from. That is the correct legal position, and the point @AY Mod was making. Time and time again, we find people demanding that they should go direct to a manufacturer because they consider themselves too important to do the correct thing, which is take it back to the shop. Pointing this out is hardly the terrible response you suggest it is.

 

 

Thanks , I dont consider anything in my comment  is "terrible" , it was simple observation to the original reply by the moderator to the person posting.

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15 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

Time and time again, we find people demanding that they should go direct to a manufacturer because they consider themselves too important to do the correct thing, which is take it back to the shop

Ummm, in this case, given the (sub)forum that we're posting in, it's one and the same thing!

 

I agree that the proper thing to do is to contact the supplier.

 

OTOH, posting here does allow people to realise that 'it's not just them'.

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13 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

Pointing this out is hardly the terrible response you suggest it

 

I really, really don't like getting involved in this sort of thing, but in the interests of fair play to micklner, Phil, may I please suggest that you might be well served to find out from Andy Y. what his post said before he edited it; I must admit I gulped a bit at its harshness, too.

 

Pete T.

 

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8 minutes ago, PJT said:

what his post said before he edited it; I must admit I gulped a bit at its harshness

 

It went through several iterations to be honest. I was far from impressed with someone grumbling on here without contacting the supplier and then being told I shouldn't tell people what they should be doing.

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

It went through several iterations to be honest. I was far from impressed with someone grumbling on here without contacting the supplier and then being told I shouldn't tell people what they should be doing.

 

I expect it did.  So where's the 'Ok, I can understand that' icon when I need one?

 

Pete T.

 

Edited by PJT
Clumsy grammar.
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1 hour ago, PJT said:

find out from Andy Y. what his post said before he edited it; I must admit I gulped a bit at its harshness, too.

 

Interesting. None of Andy's posts are marked as edited. Does that mean that admins can 'silent edit', while for the rest of us it's blatantly obvious? :excl:

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8 minutes ago, truffy said:

 

Interesting. None of Andy's posts are marked as edited. Does that mean that admins can 'silent edit', while for the rest of us it's blatantly obvious? :excl:

 

Is that an issue? 

 

 

Rob. 

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