Rails of Sheffield/Dapol/NRM Announce OO gauge Stroudley A1/A1X

[Oliver Rails]

Quick question, will these be like the Bachmann exclusive models (eg TMC Horsebox, Invicta CCT, etc.) where after X amount of time the tooling would end up in the manufactures main range or would it be like the Model Rail Sentinel loco and any future Terriers would only be available through Rails & Locomotion models?

 

 

Hi,

 

The newly tooled, high detail, Terrier will only be available from the current suppliers who have entered into a mutual development cost and exclusive supply contract. This is not like Bachmann contracts.

[Edwardian]

I think the significance of this release is the number of the options afforded by the tooling suite.

 

It doesn't allow every possible variation, particularly where the locos were changed after sale out of service (e.g. some of the alterations made later to IoW locos, the dumb-buffers for Paulings, the replacement Drummond and Wainwright boilers), BUT, it does cover the major in-service variations.

 

This is a great step forward as it allows the class to be represented at least from the 1880s through to preservation.  Two options for brake hangers and shoes, A1 and A1X boilers and sand boxes, 3 bunker options, together get you a very long way. 

 

Ultimately, it does not matter how many options there are, or really what those options are, in the first release.  Rails have the ability to turn out many, many versions with the chosen tooling in the future. The way people have collecting the many and manifold liveries of the old Dapol/Hornby version suggests that many iterations will be possible.  The big difference is that the new model will be to a modern standard and will be significantly more accurate than its predecessor.

 

Unlike the small and relatively unsuccessful P Class, or even Hornby's Peckett, for which known accurate liveries are going to be exhausted before long, the Terrier is a large and long-lived class, and, so, this is a model that can go on version after version after version.   

 

What's not to be pleased about? 

 

Frankly, neither of the major variations that suit me are present in the first batch (IEG A1 c.1890s-1900s without condensing pipes, and motor-fitted umber A1 from 1905), but I am none the less pleased, as the tooling is evidently planned that will allow these and many other iterations of the class.  So I'm pretty delighted.

[GreenGiraffe22]

Can the missing condenser pipes be added to the model of 'Southern' 2644.

 

This picture taken at Havant in August 1937 shows the locomotive as having them.

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/swift-valley/4168843093/

 

That photo makes the dark green of Bachmann 's E4s look pretty accurate...

[Dunsignalling]

 

 

As for Railroad standards, have you looked at Dapol's range? They have models in it that are from the 1960s including things that Hornby stopped making in the 1970s. Their LMS coaches are the old Airfix ones from the late 1970s.

 

Hardly "current standards".

 

 

 

Jason

As are Hornby's Siphons, B-set, Autocoach and LMS Restaurant car (all non-Railroad), 14xx (the new chassis was developed by Dapol before Hornby got it)  etc. etc.

 

At least Dapol's prices are more in keeping with the origin of their coaches.

 

Double "current standards"?

 

John

Edited March 26, 2018 by Dunsignalling

[bigherb]

That photo makes the dark green of Bachmann 's E4s look pretty accurate...

And Hornbys H class Southern lettering.

[Quarryscapes]

Which would be most suited to modelling these old girls?

 

 

[9402 Fredrick]

I just put a pre-order down for BOXHILL with DCC Sound, I can't wait to have it in hand, aswell as the rails model of the Caley 812 no. 828.

[Les1952]

Personally I'm well pleased that someone has at last had the nerve to put their head above the parapet and go for a new Terrier.  Well done!

 

I will probably have one, though I might take some time to decide which is the least unsuitable version for a Northern colliery.

 

I have only one concern, and this is not a pop at Dapol or Rails

 

As the prototype ran on very lightly laid track, some of which was laid to a very low standard, could you make sure the little beast has enough weight and enough play in its wheels to cope with track that is laid to look and behave like the real thing.  I find the current DJMs are a little light-footed and have had to withdraw a couple of Bachmanns which while nice and heavy aren't really flexible enough - the 64xx is one.

 

To pre-empt comments about trackwork, I see a lot of lovely Colonel-Stephens type layouts where everything is beautiful and lightly laid and looks scale- except that when the train comes to pointwork and rail joints it then glides smoothly across in exactly the same way the prototype didn't!

 

Les

[Ian J.]

Which would be most suited to modelling these old girls?

 

They appear to be original A1s, so possibly Boxhill from the current announcements, though the condensing pipes would need removing for one, and they'd have to be repainted. I imagine at least one of the trio would get produced in not too many years time, as long as there are production slots booked each year for the range.

 

Personally, I'd like to see Martello (662) done as preserved in 2009 in Marsh umber with the IoW bunker acquired shortly before withdrawal by BR, so I could own a more accurate version of the loco I drove than the old Dapol one I currently have

[JSpencer]

Personally I'm well pleased that someone has at last had the nerve to put their head above the parapet and go for a new Terrier.  Well done!

 

I will probably have one, though I might take some time to decide which is the least unsuitable version for a Northern colliery.

 

I have only one concern, and this is not a pop at Dapol or Rails

 

As the prototype ran on very lightly laid track, some of which was laid to a very low standard, could you make sure the little beast has enough weight and enough play in its wheels to cope with track that is laid to look and behave like the real thing.  I find the current DJMs are a little light-footed and have had to withdraw a couple of Bachmanns which while nice and heavy aren't really flexible enough - the 64xx is one.

 

To pre-empt comments about trackwork, I see a lot of lovely Colonel-Stephens type layouts where everything is beautiful and lightly laid and looks scale- except that when the train comes to pointwork and rail joints it then glides smoothly across in exactly the same way the prototype didn't!

 

Les

They have said there will be a Diecast body and sprung centre axle. The older model coped with any track I threw at it, it has a sprung centre axle only, so the model should be heavier. The old model with out pull a Beatty Well tank. I felt the sprung axle was sorely missed on the new Austerity, something which really helped the old Dapol one. Add my Bachmann57xx runs better with sprung axle than the 64xx without.

[Cor-onGRT4]

Can the missing condenser pipes be added to the model of 'Southern' 2644.

 

This picture taken at Havant in August 1937 shows the locomotive as having them.

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/swift-valley/4168843093/

Pre war live becomes so realistic with these bright colour pictures, but how filty some loco's are, but most are from just before the war i think, so not to many unneedy maintenance.

[GreenGiraffe22]

That photo makes the dark green of Bachmann 's E4s look pretty accurate...

Without wanting to hijack this thread too much and turn it into a' southern livery ' thread, I was Just having a look through some other photos in that album, there's some fantastic photos! Certainly shows several different shades of Southern green and I was surprised at how dirty locos and stock got even before WW2, also interesting to see malachite locos and carriages appearing as early as 1938/9, is that a shot of a Schools in malachite without smoke deflectors I saw?

[JSpencer]

 

SE&CR No.751 (ex 654 Waddon) is depicted with her original boiler, so this puts the model at from February 1905, when she commenced service on the Isle of Sheppey Light Railway, to November 1909, when she received a replacement Wainwright boiler. I believe that she retained her wooden brakes up to the time of her boiler change, so her the artwork is correct in this regard.

 

On Rails site it says 751 is A1X but the drawing is clearly showing an A1 boiler (an LBSCR boiler, not LNER). I have not found a pic showing here when she was in service on the SECR in those early years. Later pics are with the Wainwright boiler, Ramsbottom safety valves and later still (late Southern days) is with an A1X boiler, LBSCR raised bunker and a Drummond (LSWR) chimney!

 

Dapol's O gauge SECR version is an A1.

Edited March 27, 2018 by JSpencer

[PenrithBeacon]

Hopefully it will be driven off a single axle and coupling rods and not those dreadful DEMU style gearboxes. If it is, then I'll order one.

[Edwardian]

On Rails site it says 751 is A1X but the drawing is clearly showing an A1 boiler (an LBSCR boiler, not LNER). I have not found a pic showing here when she was in service on the SECR in those early years. Later pics are with the Wainwright boiler, Ramsbottom safety valves and later still (late Southern days) is with an A1X boiler, LBSCR raised bunker and a Drummond (LSWR) chimney!

 

Dapol's O gauge SECR version is an A1.

 

Indeed, I have not seen a picture of the loco in SE&CR service prior to re-boilering in January 1910.  IIRC, all the RCTS volume says is that Ashford removed the Westinghouse fittings and replaced them with vacuum fittings. She received Wainwright livery and was numbered 751. She also retained her wooden brake shoes at this point. 

 

As I discovered in the case of Bodiam, RCTS can be misleading in the absence of a reliable dated photograph!  Having had 14" cylinders fitted before she was sold out of service, Bodiam ought to have lost her condensing pipes according to the practice described in RCTS, but she clearly didn't! 

 

Nevertheless, 751 ought to be is the A1 condition of the time, just minus the Westinghouse cylinders and in full Wainright livery.  I'd love to see a picture of her in this state if anyone has one.

 

I think we can be confident that she was not converted to A1X before or under SE ownership.  She was sold to the SE&CR in 1904.  She can only have been an A1 then, because the first A1X rebuilds were not until late 1911, and, of course, were done by the Brighton to locos still in service with the Brighton (and to IWC and Newhaven Harbour locos).  751 would have remained in the A1 configuration until 1910.  She the received the Wainwright boiler and remained in that state when painted in SE&CR grey, a livery that she carried long after Grouping.  So there is no possibility of an A1X version in lined Wainwright green.

[JSpencer]

I think we can be confident that she was not converted to A1X before or under SE ownership.  She was sold to the SE&CR in 1904.  She can only have been an A1 then, because the first A1X rebuilds were not until late 1911, and, of course, were done by the Brighton to locos still in service with the Brighton (and to IWC and Newhaven Harbour locos).  751 would have remained in the A1 configuration until 1910.  She the received the Wainwright boiler and remained in that state when painted in SE&CR grey, a livery that she carried long after Grouping.  So there is no possibility of an A1X version in lined Wainwright green.

 

Thanks, it was the dates for A1X conversion I was looking for.

 

There is a nice grainy photo of her here on Sheppey Light Railway. Impossible to determine details however:

http://spellerweb.net/rhindex/UKRH/SECR/Sheppey.html

 

If only a bigger and finer photo was posted.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

 [Tangent)

... I was surprised at how dirty locos and stock got even before WW2...

 The combination of smoke and cylinder oil - and especially the higher temperature cylinder oil grades that became necessary with superheating - was just as effective then as it was post WWII. I endlessly recommend 'The Big Four in Colour, 1935-50', it provides a good sampling of how the filth got everywhere, among much else.

 

No need to fuss about matching the 'custard' of the GWR coach upper panels, the GWR couldn't do it: everything from pale straw to nicotine brown in a 1935 express behind a Castle on a sunny day. And don't trust photgraphs for your perception of 'correct' colour. Almost no two alike among what should match, thanks to variations in the state of the livery, cleanliness, the colour temperature of the lighting, and the gamuts of the film stock and subsequent reproduction processes to print the image.

 

And all of it intelligently and informatively captioned. Relax a little, in short...

[/Tangent]

[Edwardian]

Thanks, it was the dates for A1X conversion I was looking for.

 

There is a nice grainy photo of her here on Sheppey Light Railway. Impossible to determine details however:

http://spellerweb.net/rhindex/UKRH/SECR/Sheppey.html

 

If only a bigger and finer photo was posted.

 

I am told that there is a picture of 751 in full SECR livery in the " LBSCR Stock Book" by Peter Cooper on page 8. 

 

Does anyone posses this volume?

[JSpencer]

I am told that there is a picture of 751 in full SECR livery in the " LBSCR Stock Book" by Peter Cooper on page 8. 

 

Does anyone posses this volume?

 

There is also one in a Sheppey light railway book. Clearly an A1 boiler but with what looks what might be a blower too (not on Rails springstyle). Or maybe they just had super duper attachments for handrails to the smokebox.

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sheppey-Light-Railway-Peter-Harding/dp/0952345870

Edited March 27, 2018 by JSpencer

[Edwardian]

Thanks, it was the dates for A1X conversion I was looking for.

 

There is a nice grainy photo of her here on Sheppey Light Railway. Impossible to determine details however:

http://spellerweb.net/rhindex/UKRH/SECR/Sheppey.html

 

If only a bigger and finer photo was posted.

 

I'm afraid the nearer to 1923 we get, the more my interest tails off, so I have only looked up the dates for A1X conversions made prior to Grouping.

 

According to RCTS these are:

 

No. Date     

 

635 April 1922

 

643 September 1919  

 

644 November 1912    

 

647 January 1912    

 

650 May 1920

 

653 May 1912    

 

655 October 1912    

 

659 December 1921

 

661 January 1912    

 

662 December 1913    

 

663 May 1913

 

673 February 1912

 

677 November 1911

 

678 November 1911

 

679 January 1912

 

680 April 1912

 

Additionally the following sold out of service were later re-reboilered by the LBSC: 

 

Newhaven Harbour Company Fenchurch April 1913

 

Isle of Wight Central Railway No.11  May 1918

 

Isle of Wight Central Railway No.12  March 1916

 

EDIT: Incidentally Bodiam was not rebuilt to A1X until 1943.

Edited March 27, 2018 by Edwardian

[Butler Henderson]

Current Model Rail has a feature on Terrriers, a previous issue had a feature on Quarry Hunlsets (as then announced by Bachmann) - seems a bit too much of coincidence to have happened twice.

[PaulRhB]

Mags have to have the release info in time for publication so a quick shout to a knowledgeable staff writer can knock up an article in a few days, hours even

Some mags might even have helped with the project but under embargo.

Edited March 27, 2018 by PaulRhB

[JSpencer]

Ok found a photo of SECR 751 in Marx's Wainwright book. The loco definitely had a blower in A1 condition missing on the Rail's artwork. So the artwork is wrong unless someone produces a pic as A1 in Wainwright livery without.

 

[NHY 581]

I respectfully suggest this would be nice when the time is right.

 

 

Rob.

Edited March 27, 2018 by NHY 581

[Ian J.]

No mention has been made of the tooling having been / being designed to take into account the Wainwright and Drummond boiler variations, so the SE&CR and L&SWR variants may only happen if they (like 751) had a period of time in such ownership before boiler replacement.