JSpencer Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 (edited) I've arrived at a conclusion that each time there are two manufacturers doing the same model with all new tooling at more or less the same time, we always seem to have that each has its plus and minus points and neither is definitive. For example: The Adams radial (Oxfordrail/Hornby), the class 71 (Hornby, DJM), 1361 (Kernow/Heljan), even the Hornby King was naff as it was facing a DJM one until the latter died. Now it could be purely psychological that we see the errors better thanks to there being two state of the art models around or it could be that monies and time are needed to refine the final bits are not available as duplication makes it non viable to do so. Probably a bit of both but I feel it is more of the former than latter. Edited May 19, 2020 by JSpencer 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 There is a place for both rival models in the market. It is almost impossible to look at one without glancing across the the other, something clear from Graham's review. My personal view is that the two rivals are further apart when it comes to A1 rather than A1Xs. Graham reviews the A1X, which Hornby's design compromises in most cases favour, hence the gap is narrowed. To some extent it depends which compromises to which loco bother you the most. I was very interested at Graham's none-to-veiled reference to the Hornby Terrier in fact being originally an Oxford Rail product, a rumour that had been circulating within the industry. 5 3 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenGiraffe22 Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 At least with Terriers there are so many to do we hopefully won't get too many duplications =) I mean there were, what, 50 built? If each one wore an average of 6 liveries in its lifetime that's at least 300 variants to do. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 3 minutes ago, GreenGiraffe22 said: At least with Terriers there are so many to do we hopefully won't get too many duplications =) I mean there were, what, 50 built? If each one wore an average of 6 liveries in its lifetime that's at least 300 variants to do. Well, the SE&CR has doubled its score! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted May 19, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 19, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, Compound2632 said: An interesting insight. It's dog eat dog in the world of RTR locomotives... I sometimes wonder if some dogs do some dining in these threads too. Edited May 19, 2020 by adb968008 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
truffy Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 1 hour ago, adb968008 said: those dog fights.., especially if they happen to spot and call out a possible sighting of a 12th man on the pitch. I have to admit that I was going to rate your post, until that point. I have no idea what I'm signing up for there! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Popular Post Graham_Muz Posted May 19, 2020 RMweb Gold Popular Post Share Posted May 19, 2020 (edited) Just for the record, I am impartial and have no commercial interest with any manufacturer and I am just a “humble customer” as anyone else, and have purchased myself models from both sources. My review of this Rails Terrier, as named within the title, therefore implies that it’s content was unless specified about that model, hence the need not to mention Rails by name so often. I do not believe I trashed either model however I honestly highlighted both positive and incorrect areas of both models by way of a comparison (as has also been done a few times already in this thread) , that am at liberty to do on my own blog, and have done consistently on my blog since it’s inception. I clearly state in my final summary that I believe the Rails model to be overall the finer model. Edit: just to state that certain previous posts, that I intentionally chose not to specifically quote at the time, have now been edited / trimmed Edited May 19, 2020 by Graham_Muz 7 3 22 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ventnor Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 (edited) 13 hours ago, adb968008 said: I disagree. This is a review of the Dapol Rails Terrier. The word “Hornby” is used 15 times, 4 times encouraged (retooling of future new Hornby model x2, generic reference to “Hornby standard” and 2x negatively (length, incorrect guard irons, buffers all placed in the same sentence). The word “Rails ” is used just 4 times in context of the Retailer (excluding coal rails etc). Reading the article, I think it details the short comings quite consistently throughout the review, with the Rails model. i feel informed of the Rails short comings, but not of its praises, additionally not Hornby's deficiencies (its either a perfect model or just not mentioned). The review reveals inside information on Hornbys future plans for the tooling, which I dont feel is relevant in an impartial review of a competitors product, and neglects to mention one of the biggest differentiators of the two models (the firebox flickr). my conclusion is, whilst informative, and definitely worth a read, but to find this not impartial. I have however decided to not buy the current new Hornby terrier, beyond one I have planned, as its suggested theres another iteration to be tooled in the future, so imho its wiser to wait and see. Good morning I believe that Graham may not have been aware that Hornby have already retooled the front guard irons and tank top recess on their model (recess doesn't seem as obvious as the Rails model though). This has been discussed in the Hornby Terrier thread. The retooling is evident on the latest models of A1 "Leadenhall" and A1X No.10 "Cowes" so I don't think there's any further retooling to come. Graham's mention of the Rails model having firebox flicker in his review has already been highlighted in another post. I will admit myself, it is quite difficult at times keeping up with manufacturers developments, updated information and related or relavent information contained in other threads / subjects. It all moves so fast even with COVID-19 restrictions in place!! Kind regards Andy. Edited May 20, 2020 by Ventnor Added additional, final sentance. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted May 20, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 20, 2020 18 hours ago, Edwardian said: There is a place for both rival models in the market. It is almost impossible to look at one without glancing across the the other, something clear from Graham's review. My personal view is that the two rivals are further apart when it comes to A1 rather than A1Xs. Graham reviews the A1X, which Hornby's design compromises in most cases favour, hence the gap is narrowed. To some extent it depends which compromises to which loco bother you the most. I was very interested at Graham's none-to-veiled reference to the Hornby Terrier in fact being originally an Oxford Rail product, a rumour that had been circulating within the industry. The subject of your final comment has, I believe, long been known to quite a lot of people in various parts of the hobby and trade but it was interesting to see that Muz has now brought it to public attention. I think the warning we can best take heed of is that based on the new OxHornbyRail Terrier we can but hope that Hornby's development team will be able to continue their past excellent work without being brought down to the standard we have come to associate with OxfordRails' efforts. Now back to the Dapol/Rails model, hopefully ... 4 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted May 20, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 20, 2020 3 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said: I think the warning we can best take heed of is that based on the new OxHornbyRail Terrier we can but hope that Hornby's development team will be able to continue their past excellent work without being brought down to the standard we have come to associate with OxfordRails' efforts. Venturing further along the alphabet of Brighton tank engines might be one way out of this morass... 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenrithBeacon Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 On 18/05/2020 at 22:59, Ventnor said: Good morning everyone I think Graham's review is honest, ballanced and objective, certainly when compared to some YouTube reviews that are either almost hostile or ignore any shortcomings completely. If you read this, thanks Graham. Kind regards Andy. It seems reasonable enough to me. Has anyone done a P4 conversion? Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 20 hours ago, Edwardian said: Well, the SE&CR has doubled its score! tripled Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 1 minute ago, JSpencer said: tripled Ah yes, the old Dapol tool. Not yet seen anyone reboiler any version and paint it grey. If anyone has it would be nice to see it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 1 minute ago, Edwardian said: Ah yes, the old Dapol tool. Not yet seen anyone reboiler any version and paint it grey. If anyone has it would be nice to see it. That is the part which is nuts. 3 models of the same loco running for a short time before 1910 on the small line Sheppy light railway line for which no other RTR rolling stock exists.... But I did get drawings recently for one of the other locos that ran on the line at the same time as her. I will soon hopefully have all 3 models. One for DC, one for DCC and one for the kids..... perfect. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 2 hours ago, JSpencer said: That is the part which is nuts. 3 models of the same loco running for a short time before 1910 on the small line Sheppy light railway line for which no other RTR rolling stock exists.... But I did get drawings recently for one of the other locos that ran on the line at the same time as her. I will soon hopefully have all 3 models. One for DC, one for DCC and one for the kids..... perfect. The Sondes? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted May 20, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 20, 2020 38 minutes ago, Edwardian said: The Sondes? Yep, pre-fitted with a speaker. (I'm afraid the sun is getting to me.) 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hroth Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 On 19/05/2020 at 15:59, Compound2632 said: An interesting insight. It's dog eat dog in the world of RTR locomotives... Not really adding anything to the discussion, but I'd like to share the fact that when young, our family dog DID eat, or at least chew, a large proportion of my then new Triang 3F tender loco. Compared with what you can get nowadays, that was a bit of a dog.... Still toying with getting the SE&CR one... 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 2 hours ago, Edwardian said: The Sondes? Comus Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 6 minutes ago, JSpencer said: Comus Ah, the Kirtley S Class, very nice. I suspect the direct counterpart of Little Tich would have been the Kitson railmotor 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 7 minutes ago, Edwardian said: Ah, the Kirtley S Class, very nice. I suspect the direct counterpart of Little Tich would have been the Kitson railmotor I gave serious thought to doing a layout representing this line. You can cover a few decades of history. Maybe a retirement project. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 1 hour ago, JSpencer said: I gave serious thought to doing a layout representing this line. You can cover a few decades of history. Maybe a retirement project. I often think that the solution to the limited traffic o a rural branch line is to run trains through a limited historical sequence, as, often, stock changed faster than the infrastructure. The Hayling Island line and the RVR/K&ESR would make good examples, but more conventional branch lines would work too. 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adrianmc Posted May 21, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 21, 2020 12 hours ago, JSpencer said: I gave serious thought to doing a layout representing this line. You can cover a few decades of history. Maybe a retirement project. Model of Leysdown on the Sheppey Light Railway http://www.leysdown.org.uk and as featured in the April 2020 edition of Railway Modeller 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenGiraffe22 Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 17 minutes ago, adrianmc said: Model of Leysdown on the Sheppey Light Railway http://www.leysdown.org.uk and as featured in the April 2020 edition of Railway Modeller That is one of my favourite layouts I've ever seen at an exhibition, I never see many Southern grouping era layouts at exhibitions and it is SO atmospheric with all the sounds the layout has, could watch it for hours! 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 11 hours ago, adrianmc said: Model of Leysdown on the Sheppey Light Railway http://www.leysdown.org.uk and as featured in the April 2020 edition of Railway Modeller Very nice. I was thinking of doing the other end, Queenborough. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trevor7598 Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 My late crest Terrier arrived this morning, and is now running in on my garden railway. I have to say that some of the criticism levelled against the model is a bit nit picking. The only thing that I am not totally happy with is the fit of the chimney cap. But all in all I'm glad I waited for the Rails version, although the wait was a little frustrating at times, especially as it was imminent nearly a year ago, but we didn't have a virus then!. It was a pity that the model was subject to so many corrections after the prototypes were shown. Surely with nine examples to measure and photograph in the UK, things like the spacing of the cab front spectacles should have been picked up before tooling. Never mind the model is here now and I'm generally delighted with it. Well done Rails/Dapol. 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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