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Rails of Sheffield/Dapol/NRM Announce OO gauge Stroudley A1/A1X


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I collected mine today from the post office, on unpacking the chimney was found to be detached, however further scrutiny shows that it can be re-glued. The packaging was excellent and more than sufficient. I would suggest the problem lies with Dapol's quality control, and clearly it was not checked by Rails prior to despatch, although , to be fair, they  expect everything to be ok, clearly things are not, and as stated it would appear Dapol's quality control needs tightening. In fairness I have to say this is the first item of many purchased over the course of the years that has had a problem, and I only looked because of what others had reported in this thread.

 

kind regards

 

Nigel

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1 hour ago, doktorstamp said:

I collected mine today from the post office, on unpacking the chimney was found to be detached, however further scrutiny shows that it can be re-glued. The packaging was excellent and more than sufficient. I would suggest the problem lies with Dapol's quality control, and clearly it was not checked by Rails prior to despatch, although , to be fair, they  expect everything to be ok, clearly things are not, and as stated it would appear Dapol's quality control needs tightening. In fairness I have to say this is the first item of many purchased over the course of the years that has had a problem, and I only looked because of what others had reported in this thread.

 

kind regards

 

Nigel

 

QA of any item produced in the 100s / 1000s is likely to be only on a % sample basis, so the odd error is likely to slip through the net. If this were a critical item that may be 100%, but it isn't and the cost would not be justified.


Roy

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5 hours ago, Kaput said:

Anyone fitted a stay alive to these little beasties yet? If so, where did you put it and how did you wire it up?

 

I sought advice on this question because I need one on my layout setting and TBH  sound installation should have one by default to avoid project resets from even momentary power loss.

 

1) I never got a reply from Rails to this question - very disappointing

2) I had other expert advice which indicated that the use of and positioning of the NEXT 18 socket in the Dapol Terrier made fitting a stay alive very difficult or even not possible.

 

It was this plus all the other QA and delay issues which finally caused me to lose interest in the model

 

Colin

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clarification
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My BR 32650 arrived, looks great and none of the body issues but it has a tight spot that just won’t go away even with 2hrs running in,  even though that’s not supposed to be necessary. It means it just won’t run slowly enough to shunt with so sadly will have to go back. 
It’s not the contacts as the firebox glow is constant. 

 

 

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18 hours ago, PaulRhB said:

My BR 32650 arrived, looks great and none of the body issues but it has a tight spot that just won’t go away even with 2hrs running in,  even though that’s not supposed to be necessary. It means it just won’t run slowly enough to shunt with so sadly will have to go back. 
It’s not the contacts as the firebox glow is constant. 

 

 

Hi Paul,

 

I've found similar issues with various 0-6-0 locos over the years, though usually Bachmann ones. 

 

In several cases, one or more keeper plate screws had been nipped up a little too tight, causing binding. Easily rectified by backing them off then retightening more sensitively.

 

It may well not apply to your Terrier, but it might save the faff of returning it.

 

Regards

 

John

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10 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

In several cases, one or more keeper plate screws had been nipped up a little too tight, causing binding. Easily rectified by backing them off then retightening more sensitively.

 

Hi John, yes first thing I tried ;)

Oliver has also helpfully pm’d me this morning that idea and I’d tried over a full turn slackening so they are loose but although it slightly better on the top spot it still stalls on the bottom at slow speed so I think it’s  quartering over the keeper plate. There’s a definitive click at higher speeds too. The rest is perfect but I’m not mucking with quartering on a new loco. 

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On 20/09/2020 at 18:25, Kaput said:

Anyone fitted a stay alive to these little beasties yet? If so, where did you put it and how did you wire it up?

 

I do not have one of these, although I am considering getting one. Fitting a stay alive charging circuit and capacitors to a locomotive with a Next18 decoder requires some very careful soldering. I have done it with Dapol N gauge class 50s and a Zimo Next18 decoder and Zimo charging circuit, but I needed to use a multimeter to find precisely where to solder for the ground and common positive and then solder very carefully to surface mount components. However, this was successful and I have fitted quite a few N gauge class 50s with stay alives in this way.

 

The Dapol terrier has a built-in speaker. For those who do not wish to use this speaker for sound, this could be a good place to fit the charging circuit and capacitors (use at least 5x 470uF 16v surface mount tantalums with the Zimo SACC16). Having seen the size of the speaker on one of Jennifer Kirk's videos, this volume should be sufficient for a Zimo SACC16 and circa 5x 16v 470uF surface mount tantalum capacitors if I have parsed the image correctly. If using sound, I am not sure whether there is sufficient space. Having seen videos of the inside of the Hornby terrier, which uses a 6 pin chip, that appears to have no more space than the Dapol version, and even less if one is not removing the speaker.

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On 16/09/2020 at 19:29, truffy said:

Hmmm, I think I prefer the shade of green on Hornby's. The Rails/Dapol one seems to be edging uncomfortably towards malachite :nono:

 

On 16/09/2020 at 19:41, Pre Grouping fan said:

Rails terrier seems to match Bachmanns E4 in shade which I think is more accurate than the Maunsell shade Hornby use on both their maunsell stock and loco's. 

 

 

We have had this debate before.

 

For what its worth my take is that both manufacturers have got it wrong - albut in different ways (Granted not being 90 odd years old my personal reference is the livery applied to the Maunsell society engines at the Bluebell).

 

I think that in terms of the shade of Green, that applied to Hornby products is far closer to Maunsel Olive Green and Bachmanns varient has too much of a blueish tone coming through....

.... BUT....

When it comes to the shade of yellow used for the lettering all Hornby products is far too pale and the Bachmann colour is far more accurate.

 

When Kernow produced their O2 tank in Maunsell livery a few years ago they went for a combination of Hornby Green and Bachmann lettering which looks spot on when compared to photos of the aforementioned Blubell locos, but looks odd against both Hornby and Bachmann products.

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12 hours ago, jamespetts said:

 

I do not have one of these, although I am considering getting one. Fitting a stay alive charging circuit and capacitors to a locomotive with a Next18 decoder requires some very careful soldering. I have done it with Dapol N gauge class 50s and a Zimo Next18 decoder and Zimo charging circuit, but I needed to use a multimeter to find precisely where to solder for the ground and common positive and then solder very carefully to surface mount components. However, this was successful and I have fitted quite a few N gauge class 50s with stay alives in this way.

 

The Dapol terrier has a built-in speaker. For those who do not wish to use this speaker for sound, this could be a good place to fit the charging circuit and capacitors (use at least 5x 470uF 16v surface mount tantalums with the Zimo SACC16). Having seen the size of the speaker on one of Jennifer Kirk's videos, this volume should be sufficient for a Zimo SACC16 and circa 5x 16v 470uF surface mount tantalum capacitors if I have parsed the image correctly. If using sound, I am not sure whether there is sufficient space. Having seen videos of the inside of the Hornby terrier, which uses a 6 pin chip, that appears to have no more space than the Dapol version, and even less if one is not removing the speaker.

 

I think there is a much easier way to tackle the direct wiring issue if using ZIMO chips as their on-line manual identifies the correct terminals to use for connecting Stay Alives. I've followed their guidance successfully.

 

However, I was less clear whether a chip wired in this way could then be fitted into the NEXT socket, i.e. do the extra wires foul the socket access? Regarding this point I've already commented on Monday at 08:44 - to my mind this is not clear and in the absence of a response from Rails I remain sceptical.

 

The point about removing the Speaker is a good one to accommodate the Stay Alive kit, if indeed one can be plugged in.

 

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20 minutes ago, BWsTrains said:

 

I think there is a much easier way to tackle the direct wiring issue if using ZIMO chips as their on-line manual identifies the correct terminals to use for connecting Stay Alives. I've followed their guidance successfully.

 

However, I was less clear whether a chip wired in this way could then be fitted into the NEXT socket, i.e. do the extra wires foul the socket access? Regarding this point I've already commented on Monday at 08:44 - to my mind this is not clear and in the absence of a response from Rails I remain sceptical.

 

The point about removing the Speaker is a good one to accommodate the Stay Alive kit, if indeed one can be plugged in.

 

 

The manual does not, unless I have missed it, in which case I should be grateful if you could point me to the page in question as this would make connecting stay-alives easier for me in future, indicate solder points for connecting the SACC16 charging circuit to the Zimo MX618N18 Next18 decoder, although does do this for a wide variety of other decoders, including 6 pin models such as the MX617 series.

 

In principle, one needs to connect the SACC16 between ground and common positive; on most Zimo chips, there are solder pads for both of these, but not on the MX618N18 chips. The idea is, I believe, that there should be solder pads on the locomotive's PCB, but this is in the manufacturer's discretion, and Dapol unfortunately do not seem to provide these for their Next18 fitted models. Thus, one needs to find traces on the circuit board that correspond to these terminals and solder to these. Ideally, one would do it from the locomotive's own PCB, but it can also be done from the decoder itself. I found a way of doing this from the locomotive's PCB on the N gauge class 50s, but only after I had connected a few with one of the wires soldered to the decoder itself.

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13 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

 

 

We have had this debate before.

 

For what its worth my take is that both manufacturers have got it wrong - albut in different ways (Granted not being 90 odd years old my personal reference is the livery applied to the Maunsell society engines at the Bluebell).

 

I think that in terms of the shade of Green, that applied to Hornby products is far closer to Maunsel Olive Green and Bachmanns varient has too much of a blueish tone coming through....

.... BUT....

When it comes to the shade of yellow used for the lettering all Hornby products is far too pale and the Bachmann colour is far more accurate.

 

When Kernow produced their O2 tank in Maunsell livery a few years ago they went for a combination of Hornby Green and Bachmann lettering which looks spot on when compared to photos of the aforementioned Blubell locos, but looks odd against both Hornby and Bachmann products.

 

It always puzzled me why Bachmann's 473 was SO much darker than the real 473. I agree Hornby's Green with Bachmann's yellow would be ideal. I think it was in the Hornby H thread ( I can't really remember) I took some photos comparing all the different SR Greens in different lighting on my layout, direct sunlight and shade make huge differences. 

 

Be interested to see if the D comes out in the same shade as Rails Terrier or if they go more olive.

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29 minutes ago, GreenGiraffe22 said:

 

It always puzzled me why Bachmann's 473 was SO much darker than the real 473. I agree Hornby's Green with Bachmann's yellow would be ideal. I think it was in the Hornby H thread ( I can't really remember) I took some photos comparing all the different SR Greens in different lighting on my layout, direct sunlight and shade make huge differences. 

 

Be interested to see if the D comes out in the same shade as Rails Terrier or if they go more olive.

I've heard previously when the Bachmann E4 came out that the colour Bachmann use is closer to the correct shade and the colour used on B473 was actually wrong. 

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8 hours ago, jamespetts said:

 

The manual does not, unless I have missed it, in which case I should be grateful if you could point me to the page in question as this would make connecting stay-alives easier for me in future, indicate solder points for connecting the SACC16 charging circuit to the Zimo MX618N18 Next18 decoder, although does do this for a wide variety of other decoders, including 6 pin models such as the MX617 series.

 

In principle, one needs to connect the SACC16 between ground and common positive; on most Zimo chips, there are solder pads for both of these, but not on the MX618N18 chips. The idea is, I believe, that there should be solder pads on the locomotive's PCB, but this is in the manufacturer's discretion, and Dapol unfortunately do not seem to provide these for their Next18 fitted models. Thus, one needs to find traces on the circuit board that correspond to these terminals and solder to these. Ideally, one would do it from the locomotive's own PCB, but it can also be done from the decoder itself. I found a way of doing this from the locomotive's PCB on the N gauge class 50s, but only after I had connected a few with one of the wires soldered to the decoder itself.

Fair enough regarding direct wiring, I'd not looked at their NEXT chips not having used them. All the other chips' contact terminals are identified and that in itself is a worry, implying ZIMO don't expect you to have to access the relevant points on their NEXT chips.

 

Also everything you say about it being down to the Manufacturer confirms what I'd been told by an independent source (who should know). This suggests that there will be an issue if the required connections are at the socket end of the chip as surely extra wiring will prevent plugging it into the socket. Then the question becomes "how easy is it  to access the correct points on the socket???"  this omission appears to be a massive oversight by Dapol as it is the norm to have a stay alive with sound. Not one modellers should have to address post market.

 

So now we have NEXTgate to add to all the others, cab, bunker etc....

 

 

 

 

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10 hours ago, Pre Grouping fan said:

I've heard previously when the Bachmann E4 came out that the colour Bachmann use is closer to the correct shade and the colour used on B473 was actually wrong. 

 

Bachmann claim their shade is correct - but it is manifestly different to that used on the real things (as seen on the Bluebell / NYMR / etc) where as Hornbys take on the colour is pretty much spot on (if you take into account lighting, metal versus plastic etc....)

 

Now I did see some pictures of locos in Olive taken at Winchester in 1938 which looked like the loco was in Bachmanns Green (albut with very light yellow lettering like Hornby) BUT that rather ignores the fact that film / slides from that era do deteriorate with age and cannot be taken to be 100% acurate decades later.

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3 hours ago, BWsTrains said:

Fair enough regarding direct wiring, I'd not looked at their NEXT chips not having used them. All the other chips' contact terminals are identified and that in itself is a worry, implying ZIMO don't expect you to have to access the relevant points on their NEXT chips.

 

Also everything you say about it being down to the Manufacturer confirms what I'd been told by an independent source (who should know). This suggests that there will be an issue if the required connections are at the socket end of the chip as surely extra wiring will prevent plugging it into the socket. Then the question becomes "how easy is it  to access the correct points on the socket???"  this omission appears to be a massive oversight by Dapol as it is the norm to have a stay alive with sound. Not one modellers should have to address post market.

 

So now we have NEXTgate to add to all the others, cab, bunker etc....

 

 

 

 

 

One does not solder to the inside of the socket itself. That would not be possible. Rather, one solders to somewhere on the locomotive's PCB with a trace to the right pins on the socket. This needs to be confirmed using a multimeter. It is important to get this right, or else the decoder might be irreversibly damaged. If soldered to well chosen places, there will be no problem with plugging or unplugging the decoder.

 

I should note that I have not actually confirmed that the Dapol A1/A1x models do not have solder pads for stay-alives; I know that the N gauge class 50s do not, and these also may not, but this should be confirmed by somebody with access to a model. It should in principle be straightforward to include these solder pads on the PCB, and not having them is an unfortunate omission, as it then makes fitting a stay-alive charging circuit more difficult than it needs to be, and a stay-alive system will be very useful for an 0-6-0 locomotive.

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10 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

 

Bachmann claim their shade is correct - but it is manifestly different to that used on the real things (as seen on the Bluebell / NYMR / etc) where as Hornbys take on the colour is pretty much spot on (if you take into account lighting, metal versus plastic etc....)

 

Now I did see some pictures of locos in Olive taken at Winchester in 1938 which looked like the loco was in Bachmanns Green (albut with very light yellow lettering like Hornby) BUT that rather ignores the fact that film / slides from that era do deteriorate with age and cannot be taken to be 100% acurate decades later.

But as has been discussed on here many times, arguing about the exact shade of green (or for that matter red) is pointless, as it varies on so many parameters - where and when it was painted, how long it's been since painting, the light conditions, the distance from the viewer, etc. 

 

The likelyhood is that if you took a loco painted at Eastleigh, and one painted at Ashford, on the same day, and parked them side by side, they'd be slightly different shades. Certainly one painted at Ryde would be! I've also seen photos of a three-car set, which would all have been painted at the same time and place, yet all look different due to the angle of the light compared with the camera. 

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21 hours ago, GreenGiraffe22 said:

There's the real 2644, if you blackened Rails' one with some coal dust it'd probably look a very similar colour 

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/swift-valley/4168843093/in/set-72157622769148804

 

Which contrasts with this bg_davep_jan10m.jpg

 

or this

 

Maunsel_U_class_no._1638_Bluebell_railwa

 

Be very careful about using old photographs as a reference - cameras and film of the 1930s were very crude compared to todays technology and their ability to record colour variations accurately is notably poorer than many like to think.

 

I quite simply do not believe that all heritage railways in the country have got the shade of Maunsell Green wrong on the basis of old photos - but if people provide paint specifications which highlight this then I will listen.

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Dear All

 

Has anybody already installed in a sound decoder into the Dapol Terrier? As I prefer Zimo, does any body know if an MX658 matches, or if the small MX659 needs to be installed?

 

Btw, some pics showing the chassis after having unmounted the body of SR no. 2644

 

 

39502372oe.jpg

39502373mb.jpg

Dapol SR Terrier no. 2644.

 

As you may see, the space inside is a bit tight, and even the smallest NEXT18 Decoders provide for a height of 4 mm.

 

Thank you.

Mark

 

 

 

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19 hours ago, Guardian said:

does any body know if an MX658 matches,

 

When I was interested in this model, many moons ago, I asked Rails this question and AFAIR their answer was that the MX658 was what Dapol were installing.

 

However, I'd not recommend depending just on my memory; ask the question of their Help desk as I did, a simple call.

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They both will probably be ok. I would go for the 659 as it’s slightly narrower and there is not a lot of clearance above the wheels. The decoder fixing is very loose and it might be a good idea to also fix it with some black tack. You should definitely insulate the speaker terminals as it’s very inclined to fall out and attach itself to the motor.

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Give Mrsoundguy a ring, he will tell you which decoder you need, a nice helpfull chap. Just fitted one into mine, good sound and its a zimo chip. Its a tight fit but will go in there. As everone says be aware of the speaker becoming detached. 

 

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