Jump to content

Rails of Sheffield/Dapol/NRM Announce OO gauge Stroudley A1/A1X


Recommended Posts

  • RMweb Gold
55 minutes ago, stovepipe said:

I've come here because my interest has been piqued by the NRM version in IEG or another similar, and after reading around and watching various things, it does rather seem that those defending the model are invested in some way, whether they care to admit it to themselves or not. I'm sure the models they have, are acceptable to them. But differences in opinion are allowed, and banding around terms like 'terriergate!' are unhelpful.

 

Then I look up the images Rails have themselves selected to put on their website.

 

https://images.railsofsheffield.com/product-images.axd/boxhill.IMG_2893.jpg?preset=large

https://images.railsofsheffield.com/product-images.axd/boxhill.IMG_2895.jpg?preset=large

https://images.railsofsheffield.com/product-images.axd/brighton.IMG_2899.jpg?preset=large

https://images.railsofsheffield.com/product-images.axd/brighton.IMG_2901.jpg?preset=large

 

I'm told the frames are not banana shaped. Is this just an optical illusion then? Why does either the cab look to be leaning backwards, or the front leaning forward? Why isn't the condensing pipe parallel in line and level to the tanks? What about those gaps between the superstructure and the chassis?

 

I get it, these are small locos and Rails' pictures are perhaps rather too large, and I guess if it turns up like that, then it will be 'as advertised'... and I should accept it, though realistically I'm not hurrying to buy based on those photos, sorry to say.

 

The NRM one is better, but still not flawless

http://www.locomotionmodels.com/exclusive-models/steam-locomotives/lbscr-terrier-boxhill-dcc-ready.htm

 

I don't doubt the Rails version is technically superior, it clearly is, and no doubt there are some good examples out there, but if Rails can't find a decent one to photograph, what hope has the prospective average punter got? Maybe the NRM are insisting on only good ones, so perhaps I would be better off looking there first.

 

Or perhaps I should just avoid locos with diecast chassis frames - it isn't the first time we've been here with models fitted with them.


This is sadly ironic because a Rails images are usually the best of all websites. Couple of points if I may.Firstly there are AFAIK no claims that any of these models are as you say flawless so I’d be grateful if you would highlight for me the faults you currently find with the Locomotion Boxhill.Secondly please refresh my memory with regard to your comment on diecast chassis frames....historically to which examples do you refer ? 

 

 You make reference to members investing in some way in Rails Terrier. In a way this is correct but it is so in terms of pure ,rigorous academic research into the origins and history of the A1 and A1X and not in any remunerative/financial sense. Put it this way : if you had invested hours of your own time in this,would you too not be inclined to be vigorous in its defence ?

Edited by Ian Hargrave
Additional comment
  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes Rails are to be commended for their photos generally, but with the Terrier being so small they may  have perhaps done themselves a disservice in providing such large photos. There's is only one (smaller) NRM photo to go on, but it still exhibits some hogging on the chassis frames, the chimney seems to be  leaning forward, and it seems there are some gaps under the front sandboxes and splashers. Although the NRM is a museum I don't really expect the NCiM locos to be flawless; perhaps I should have said 'below the expected standard'.

 

As to previous models I was thinking of one of the Hornby LNER K models, I'd have to check which it was - it was a few years ago.

 

  • Agree 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • RMweb Gold

Well, I have two Hornby Terriers and one from Rails. Not one of them runs as well as any of the "old" Hornby Terriers I have. While in general terms the appearance of models has improved over the 35 years or so since it was first released (ironically, by Dapol) it's a shame that running quality hasn't.

 

All my examples are BR livery, so I hadn't noted the issue with the join on the cab roof; given that many of the versions to be modelled would have white roofs and given that models are often viewed from above, I cannot understand why this error was not corrected. The Hornby model may have more detail issues in general, but none this obvious. As it is, the definitive Terrier is yet to be produced…

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • RMweb Gold
16 minutes ago, stovepipe said:

Yes Rails are to be commended for their photos generally, but with the Terrier being so small they may  have perhaps done themselves a disservice in providing such large photos. There's is only one (smaller) NRM photo to go on, but it still exhibits some hogging on the chassis frames, the chimney seems to be  leaning forward, and it seems there are some gaps under the front sandboxes and splashers. Although the NRM is a museum I don't really expect the NCiM locos to be flawless; perhaps I should have said 'below the expected standard'.

 

As to previous models I was thinking of one of the Hornby LNER K models, I'd have to check which it was - it was a few years ago.

 

 If you look at the images Dennis Lovett has posted on the Locomotion thread you will see no such leaning and the image is quite large enough for normal viewing. Another forum member has also posted images of his newly received model. He attributes both slight fore& aft “leaning “ to distortion from his camera phone which does not convey an accurate impression .He is delighted with his. What’s an expected standard btw ?

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Ian Hargrave said:


You make reference to members investing in some way in Rails Terrier. In a way this is correct but it is so in terms of pure ,rigorous academic research into the origins and history of the A1 and A1X and not in any remunerative/financial sense. Put it this way : if you had invested hours of your own time in this,would you too not be inclined to be vigorous in its defence ?

 

Perhaps I would, but I would not go as far as defending design decisions or assembly issues for which I have had no part of, or call wingeing those that have experienced issues, while glossing over the fact the model(s) I have received may have been specially selected, and are after all a single (or low digit) points of reference in the grand scheme of things. Especially when the sellers own photos indicate some assembly issues could well be present.

 

42 minutes ago, Ian Hargrave said:

 If you look at the images Dennis Lovett has posted on the Locomotion thread you will see no such leaning and the image is quite large enough for normal viewing. Another forum member has also posted images of his newly received model. He attributes both slight fore& aft “leaning “ to distortion from his camera phone which does not convey an accurate impression .

 

I have had a look at those photos thanks, and I agree they do look a deal better... though there is still something odd in the last rear 3/4 view. The condenser pipe projects off at an unnatural angle and I'm sorry to say that chimney still seems to be leaning forward compared to the other major vertical elements. The boiler handrail does a dive to the front too. I wish someone would take a picture with a high quality camera at a standard focal length, which could then be zoomed in -  I think possibly the only way I'm going to sort this out is to see the NRM one in the flesh. I don't suppose they are taking personal callers though...

 

41 minutes ago, Ian Hargrave said:

 What’s an expected standard btw ?

 

I define it the same way you do.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 26/10/2020 at 11:12, Georgeconna said:

 

 

As an influencer do you get paid from rails/other suppliers to review these yokes?

 

Certainly not. I don’t get paid to produce any reviews. Indeed, the six Terriers were only loaned so the same position the magazines would be in. 

  • Like 1
  • Informative/Useful 1
  • Friendly/supportive 7
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 26/10/2020 at 16:32, JeremyKarl said:

My one arrived today and I can see no fault with the running plate (I took a ruler to it). So very happy with it so far though I have still to test it's running capabilities and to add a DCC chip. So 3 out of 4 terriers from Rails ok so far but perhaps I am lucky. Who knows...

...

Jeremy

p.s. I have still to receive my SE Terrier - Rails are still awaiting more stock I was told.

It seems I spoke too soon :o My final SE&CR one arrived with the smokebox dart and handrail above missing. I found the detached smokebox dart but not the handrail. I am puzzled as to how it could have broken off given that the ice cube packaging doesn't appear to put any force onto the front of the loco. Pity as I would happily have reattached the smokebox dart as the rest of it looks fine but I don't fancy replacing the broken off handrail, so this one will have to go back :( The footplate looks fine and I adore the lining on these locomotives - and again what an exquisite chimney!

 

20201028_120604.jpg.54af325c42d5199bde2f9de0f2d1f0dc.jpg

  • Friendly/supportive 5
Link to post
Share on other sites

Sadly all manufacturers have problems when it comes to stuff travelling from China.  Packaging is getting better but the inspection regime at ALL of the Chinese factories leaves something to be desired at times.  If a worker is on long hours then towards the end of a shift errors will be missed, if they are looked for at all.

 

One thing Dave Jones did was to inspect every loco.  But he did that in China (which might account for some of the money he got through) and before the loco was packed in its box.  That allowed the loco to be rammed in after he had left and damage to occur accordingly.  Removing from packaging and testing in the UK would add  to the cost of each loco- how much time to carefully remove a loco, carefully inspect every part is present and the right way up, give a function test including curves and pointwork and carefully put back in the box?  I reckon maybe 10 minutes, less at the start of a shift.  That is 6 to the hour at £15 per hour minimum including employment costs not included in wages.  You would also need to replace that nice pretty paper outer that protects the box from scuffs etc- skilled labour to do that by hand or invest in a machine....

 

The laws of getting model locos to customers seem at times like the laws of entropy-

1.  You can't win

2. You can't break even

3. You can't get out of the game

 

For 3 read system, and add the exception that the get out is by closing down or going bust....

 

Les

 

Edited by Les1952
  • Interesting/Thought-provoking 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, JeremyKarl said:

It seems I spoke too soon :o My final SE&CR one arrived with the smokebox dart and handrail above missing. I found the detached smokebox dart but not the handrail. I am puzzled as to how it could have broken off given that the ice cube packaging doesn't appear to put any force onto the front of the loco. Pity as I would happily have reattached the smokebox dart as the rest of it looks fine but I don't fancy replacing the broken off handrail, so this one will have to go back :( The footplate looks fine and I adore the lining on these locomotives - and again what an exquisite chimney!

 

20201028_120604.jpg.54af325c42d5199bde2f9de0f2d1f0dc.jpg

I personally saw a step change between the initial and final batches in terms of quality.

 

Whilst mine are mostly Hornby (and they're not perfect - a recent delivery had one of the condensing pipes broken off) a friend of mine has some of the Dapol versions.

 

Two from the first batch - suffering from missing detail, broken detail, broken darts. One took two attempts to get a good 'un (and even that needed a second set of steps sent to achieve it, for him to fit himself), and the second three attempts, but the final two from the final batch were absolutely spot on, and IMHO if you placed them and the Hornby versions side by side you'd go for the Dapols (which, let's face it, given the extra cost over the Hornby is what you'd hope for). 

 I hasten to add that no dislodged chimneys or twisted running plates were experienced with either batch. A run on the rolling road was also deemed acceptable.

 

These are non-DCC I should also add, so as regards speaker issues I cannot comment.

 

I think the above proves that Dapol CAN supply a decent model, and given that I posted earlier about the issues with the first two it seemed only fair to report on the final two, thankfully favourably. I daresay we all can but hope that the lessons have been learned, and the forthcoming 4-4-0s are right first time.....

  • Like 1
  • Informative/Useful 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • RMweb Gold
1 hour ago, Les1952 said:

One thing Dave Jones did was to inspect every loco.  But he did that in China (which might account for some of the money he got through) and before the loco was packed in its box.  That allowed the loco to be rammed in after he had left and damage to occur accordingly. 


Sorry, one thing Dave Jones claimed to have done, but evidence suggested otherwise. 
 

Roy

  • Like 2
  • Agree 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • RMweb Gold
7 hours ago, WisTramwayMan said:

I personally saw a step change between the initial and final batches in terms of quality.

 

Whilst mine are mostly Hornby (and they're not perfect - a recent delivery had one of the condensing pipes broken off) a friend of mine has some of the Dapol versions.

 

Two from the first batch - suffering from missing detail, broken detail, broken darts. One took two attempts to get a good 'un (and even that needed a second set of steps sent to achieve it, for him to fit himself), and the second three attempts, but the final two from the final batch were absolutely spot on, and IMHO if you placed them and the Hornby versions side by side you'd go for the Dapols (which, let's face it, given the extra cost over the Hornby is what you'd hope for). 

 I hasten to add that no dislodged chimneys or twisted running plates were experienced with either batch. A run on the rolling road was also deemed acceptable.

 

These are non-DCC I should also add, so as regards speaker issues I cannot comment.

 

I think the above proves that Dapol CAN supply a decent model, and given that I posted earlier about the issues with the first two it seemed only fair to report on the final two, thankfully favourably. I daresay we all can but hope that the lessons have been learned, and the forthcoming 4-4-0s are right first time.....

 
And again add to this the excellent B4. You have to ask,were these made in the same factory as the Terrier ?

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Ian Hargrave said:

 
And again add to this the excellent B4. You have to ask,were these made in the same factory as the Terrier ?

 

Hmmm . The next Dapol loco due, next month I think, is the 43xx . Will be interesting to see how it turns out.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • RMweb Gold

Added to which of course is that it’s this Dapol’s regime’s inaugural tender loco in OO  as opposed to tank.It was billed as arriving next month but seems to have disappeared from the expected soon list.No reason for it not to succeed.It’s been well designed so hopefully the factory will make a thorough job of assembly and packing. A positive sign is the delay in releasing it to correct certain issues in livery etc. We live in hope but realistically I don’t expect to see it before the New Year. I hope Dapol prove me wrong.

Edited by Ian Hargrave
For accuracy
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • RMweb Gold
28 minutes ago, CUCKOO LINE said:

Dapol Website says expected in shops mid November


Gaugemaster’s list....they are Dapol major distributors....omits them from its latest list,having included it the previous month’s list. Also not mentioned in latest ModelRail ad. I’m not holding my breath. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Ian Hargrave said:


Gaugemaster’s list....they are Dapol major distributors....omits them from its latest list,having included it the previous month’s list. Also not mentioned in latest ModelRail ad. I’m not holding my breath. 

 Just got an email from Rails , they are expected next week

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • RMweb Gold
2 hours ago, Ian Hargrave said:


Gaugemaster’s list....they are Dapol major distributors....omits them from its latest list,having included it the previous month’s list. Also not mentioned in latest ModelRail ad. I’m not holding my breath. 

  
Great to be proven wrong ,Rails say next week

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Anglian said:

Is a second run of a Rails LBSC umber liveried Terrier expected or in the pipeline?

Quite possibly, (probably a different identity though) but only the models listed on Rails website are what's planned currently. 

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • RMweb Gold
1 hour ago, Anglian said:

Is a second run of a Rails LBSC umber liveried Terrier expected or in the pipeline?

Have you thought of asking Rails? I understand they don't bite, and if enough people ask for a repeat of something that has sold well in the first releases then you may actually help make it happen. 

  • Like 2
  • Agree 4
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Anglian said:

Is a second run of a Rails LBSC umber liveried Terrier expected or in the pipeline?

 

If you want the current model, Dapol have them available (both ready and fitted). https://www.Dapol.co.uk/shop/oo-gauge/Steam-Locomotives-OOGauge/A1_A1X.

 

Umber seems to be a Cinderella livery for terriers even though there would have been many more of them, I assume, than the "pretty" liveries that are popular with buyers. I certainly looking forward to receiving mine  to replace my venerable original umber terrier (its been residing in Dapol's factory since May waiting for a decoder to be fitted and to be delivered to Rails)

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, stephennicholson said:

Umber seems to be a Cinderella livery for terriers even though there would have been many more of them, I assume, than the "pretty" liveries that are popular with buyers. 

 

I think I'm right in saying that all Terriers ran (with names) in IEG - undoubtedly the prettiest of liveries - until they were all repainted umber (losing their names) in the early 20th century. Although possibly you have in mind the odd ones that carried other companies' liveries.

Edited by Compound2632
  • Agree 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.