LMS TPO Kits in 4mm

[ianwales]

Hi

 

I came across an advert in an early MRJ of 3 kits by B D Badger for LMS TPO Coaches, are there any kits or sides for LMS TPO coaches available currently, I seem to recall 247 developments or Stevenson carries had some sides available but I don't think they are currently in production?

 

Ian

[Barry O]

http://www.ukmodelshops.co.uk/suppliers/47822-StevensonCarriages

 

Yep Stevenson Carriages had the LMS TPO kits at Nottingham Show. 50' and 57' POS, POTS etc

 

Mine are a mix of Badger and Stevenons ones.

 

Baz

[hongkongmike]

I realise the last post on this topic was a while back, but I am modelling Aberdeen in 4mm, late 50's/early 60's. There existed a 4 coach ex LMS TPO set which formed part of the West Coast Postal, and which ran into the 1980's, albeit with Mk1 TPO vehicles by then.

Is there anywhere I can source ex LMS 4mm TPO coaches, or coach kits? Can anyone identify the vehicle types from the pic below? I suspect some were sorting vehicles and others were fitted with nets etc for pick up at speed.

[Barry O]

If Stevensons are still making these kits they the two types shown. The first 2 and 4th are sorting vans. These have a raised area above the coach waistline (for the sorting boxes) the third coach looks like a  POT..ie it may have the pick up/set down gear for mail sacks on the other side. I need to check in my coach books to be sure but the badger ones I have are now the Stevenson ones.

Baz

[mark54]

The 4th coach looks like a GWR design 57ft stowage van with 7ft bogies. Possibly this was transferred to the LMR when Mk1 stock was introduced in 1959 on the GW TPO.

[keefer]

Going by the nearest PTM book i can access (Winter West PTM 1960-61) this would seem to be the 3.30pm from Aberdeen (SX), but between Perth & Carstairs - the rest of the train to Glasgow Buch.St. was detached at Perth and these 4 coaches joined a Euston service at Carstairs.

 

Edited May 31, 2022 by keefer

[mark54]

Having had a further look at the photo I think I can identify all the coaches:

 

1) Period 2 sorting van to LMS Diagram 1792 (no toilet)

2) Period 3 sorting van to LMS Diagram 1792 (with toilet)

3) Stowage van to LMS Diagram 1793

4) Stowage van to GWR Diagram L21 (W794W & W795W were transferred to the LMR In 5/60 according to the Longworth book)

 

The lengths of these correspond to Keefer's extract above.

[Barry O]

Finally dug the kit built versions of some of these out. My memory does play tricks sometimes but..

Period III POS

 

Transductor side shown.

 

 

and the "sorting" side

 

 

Stanier Period III 50ft POT

 

 

and , finally, a Stanier Period III POT.

 

All from Brian Badger kits. Bought from him at a York Show many, many moons ago.

 

I will now go off and get them fixed, windows replace, roofs reattached.

 

Note these have the proper LMS coach roof extrusions. I wonder where the die for that went?

 

Baz

 

Edited April 6, 2020 by Barry O

[mark54]

These are very nice models, Baz. Thank you for posting.

 

According to An Illustrated History of LMS Standard  Coaching Stock:

 

M30230M is to D.1792 built 1936

M30291M is also D.1792 built 1939 (both these are as the second coach in the photo above)

M30282M is to D.2052 built 1946

M30276M is to D.2172 built 1950 (as it has a guard’s compartment, I suppose technically is should be coded BPOT)

[Barry O]

I am now repairing windows, moving couplings etc on these coaches. They will appear on my layout when

A  the layout has all its track in place

B  they have been refiboshed.

 

Not very oftem you see postal stock on trains at Exhibitions.

Baz

[ScRSG]

1 hour ago, Barry O said:

 

 

Not very oftem you see postal stock on trains at Exhibitions.

Baz

 

Check out the first scene on this  video -

 

 

The West Coast postal diverted from Perth down the Devon Valley to rejoin the main at Stirling.

 

The set is made up from IIRC Jackson Evans coach sides on Hornby donors. The last coach is the interesting one, the one with the guards duckets. No-one has identified the origins of this coach and this was built from an old MAJ  kit. 

[Barry O]

Very nice!

 

[mark54]

On 09/04/2020 at 09:31, ScRSG said:

 

Check out the first scene on this  video -

 

 

The West Coast postal diverted from Perth down the Devon Valley to rejoin the main at Stirling.

 

The set is made up from IIRC Jackson Evans coach sides on Hornby donors. The last coach is the interesting one, the one with the guards duckets. No-one has identified the origins of this coach and this was built from an old MAJ  kit. 

 

That last coach is a mystery. I can't find a diagram for it. However it does appear to exist as one can be seen in the platform at Crewe in the BTF Thirty Million Letters film. It has the layout of a LMS BG but with sliding doors and side gangways.

Edited April 10, 2020 by mark54

[mark54]

Deleted. Posted in error

Edited April 10, 2020 by mark54

[Joseph_Pestell]

For anyone that wants LMS TPO vehicles, especially in the "rarer" scales, worth a mention that rue d'Etropal (Simon Dawson) has two versions available via Shapeways. Found earlier when looking at his new Period 1 inter-regional coaches.

[ScRSG]

6 hours ago, mark54 said:

 

That last coach is a mystery. I can't find a diagram for it. However it does appear to exist as one can be seen in the platform at Crewe in the BTF Thirty Million Letters film. It has the layout of a LMS BG but with sliding doors and side gangways.

 

Yes, and can also be seen at the end of the train in the picture in the third post above. I remember corresponding with, I think, Jackson Evans to see if they knew anything of the history but they couldn't help. It did occur that the coach may be of LNWR origin but still haven't found any evidence. The model was made purely from reference to photos.

[Joseph_Pestell]

5 minutes ago, ScRSG said:

 

Yes, and can also be seen at the end of the train in the picture in the third post above. I remember corresponding with, I think, Jackson Evans to see if they knew anything of the history but they couldn't help. It did occur that the coach may be of LNWR origin but still haven't found any evidence. The model was made purely from reference to photos.

Looks rather modern to be of LNW origin.

[mark54]

34 minutes ago, ScRSG said:

 

Yes, and can also be seen at the end of the train in the picture in the third post above. I remember corresponding with, I think, Jackson Evans to see if they knew anything of the history but they couldn't help. It did occur that the coach may be of LNWR origin but still haven't found any evidence. The model was made purely from reference to photos.

 

Solved it now. I was thrown by the model as it doesn't have provision for nets although we are looking at the equipment side.

 

The coach in the photo above is a GWR diagram 21 57ft POT. 794 & 795 were transferred to the LMR in 1960 according to Longworth. However it looks as if a guards door and ducket was added in the centre of the coaches on transfer, as earlier photos when on the WR, do not have them. (These probably replaced pre-grouping side gangway BG's). If the model on Alloa purports to be one of the GWR ones that were transferred, then it is not right, as we are looking at the gangway side which should have a recess for the provision of nets.

[ScRSG]

1 hour ago, mark54 said:

 

Solved it now. I was thrown by the model as it doesn't have provision for nets although we are looking at the equipment side.

 

The coach in the photo above is a GWR diagram 21 57ft POT. 794 & 795 were transferred to the LMR in 1960 according to Longworth. However it looks as if a guards door and ducket was added in the centre of the coaches on transfer, as earlier photos when on the WR, do not have them. (These probably replaced pre-grouping side gangway BG's). If the model on Alloa purports to be one of the GWR ones that were transferred, then it is not right, as we are looking at the gangway side which should have a recess for the provision of nets.

 

Not too sure, attached is a copy of one of the few photos I have found with this coach and while it is a it chopped off i am reasonably confident it does not have a recess for nets on the side shown. I am sure when i made it (and it was not yesterday!) that I had seen pictures or video to show this side without  recess for nets. 

 

[ScRSG]

Also found this, a snapshot taken from a video, no recess for nets here - this coach is a bit of a mystery!

 

[mark54]

Thank you for posting the photos. That is an ex-SR POT. According to An Illustrated History of Southern Coaches, M4957S was transferred to the LMR in 4/62 . There is a photo as well showing the extra door that it gained and ROYAL MAIL on the right-hand panel.  The model must be of this.

[robertcwp]

So, in the various photos we are looking at two different carriages, one ex-GWR and the other ex-SR.

[ScRSG]

No, I don't think so, all the evidence I have is that the vehicle with the guard's duckets is one and the same and would appear to be the SR coach. There is no photo evidence of a guards section on any coach in this train with side net recesses.

 

Isn't RMWeb brilliant for getting answers like this! I have wondered for years about the origins of this coach.

[mark54]

Definitely 2 different types. The SR one has small windows under the can trail on both sides - the GWR ones do not have any, The SR one has centrally placed roof vents, evenly spaced - and the GWR ones have offset vents grouped in 2's and 3's.

[ScRSG]

I will, of course, accept your explanation of that, it is a pity that photos of the net equipment side of these trains are extremely rare - something to do with the sun being on the non-equipment side at the usual mid to late afternoon running of this train. I am not aware of any photo of the ex-GWR coach on that service which shows the net side. As I say, any photos of that side of the coach are of the ex-SR version.