BR Wagons - Grey, Bauxite or both?

[Rivercider]

8 hours ago, john new said:

Partly related to the grey livery issue is the end door white stripe. I know it signifies that the wagon had end doors but where were the wagons sorted so that the end doors were the right way round to be tipped? Was it just a simple use of wagon turntables at the destination point or did they leave the pits with all the doors at the same end having been turned there? Something I have not thought to look for before in the books in my library, so something to look up in due course.

It depoends partly where the empties had come from. If they have come from coal depots across England they will be randomly mixed, however if in a captive circuit from pit to port and return they will generally all face the same way.

Look for pictures of MDOs of export coal at Swansea DOcks for example

 

cheers 

[Fat Controller]

3 hours ago, Rivercider said:

It depoends partly where the empties had come from. If they have come from coal depots across England they will be randomly mixed, however if in a captive circuit from pit to port and return they will generally all face the same way.

Look for pictures of MDOs of export coal at Swansea Docks for example

 

cheers 

End-door orientation was pretty random. There were 21-tonners with end doors at both ends; otherwise, there were often wagon tunntables on the approach to the hoist There was also a type of end tippler, used in bigger coal depots, which had a pair of tilting platforms feeding a common conveyor below the tracks.

There were some wagons that had end-doors at both ends, but no side doors; this caused problems when sent to coal depots, as opposed to sites with tipplers. 

[clive s]

On 26/03/2018 at 17:51, The Johnster said:

Sorry to be late on this as I haven't been joined long.

Also freight brakes were still required for 'dangerous goods' trains....I worked the Dungeness nuclear flask as a guard back in the early/mid 80s. 

Re..last class 9 trains ..they were still around until 1987 when I tranferred to LMR..but I was only on them as a guard on movements trains between locations...used to transfer unfitted vehicles to Carlisle Upperby, Carnforth East yard and Bamber Bridge-Hellifield . 

Now to modelling...the grey , crude examples, of the LNER Toad B with white 'NE' on  Hornby, Mainline Railways etc ..are they prototypical in that colour for the 1930s?.

Many thanks.

Clive S

On 26/03/2018 at 17:51, The Johnster said:

 

 

Unfitted and part fitted trains with brake vans carrying side lamps as well as the tail ran up to the early 80s in some areas.  Conversely, fully fitted freight trains ran from around the turn of the 20th century on most railways, with a brake van at the rear but carrying just the one tail lamp.  The guard had no need to assist with braking on such trains.  On the LNER, up to 2 fitted vehicles with the brake working could be marshalled behind the brake van, which in any case had to be piped or fitted so that the guard had a 'setter' available.  This is a lever that you lift which admits air to the vacuum system and applies the brakes.  

 

Guards on fully fitted trains were allowed to ride in the back cab of the loco following a single manning agreement with the drivers' union in 1969, and this was adopted for parcels and ecs working as well; a brake van could now be dispensed with.  But it was still necessary to have a goods brake van with the guard riding in it on unfitted or part fitted goods trains, and a brake compartment with the guard riding in it on passenger carrying trains, which included TPOs for this purpose.  A limit of 10 vehicles behind the brake compartment applied in this case.

 

To summarise, grey and bauxite liveried freight vehicles were introduced by BR, but colour identification of this sort had previously been used on the LNER and LMS.  They are suitable for BR steam, transition, and blue diesel eras, 1948-80 approx, but in the early years there would still have been many vehicles in big 4 liveries, especially wartime and post war ones, and some early BR wooden wagons were unpainted due to continuing post war material shortages.  Many later big 4 vehicles were repainted into the BR standard liveries, and some were retrofitted with vacuum brakes, so an unfitted livery LNER or LMS wagon could go into workshops and come out in BR bauxite livery.  Again because of post war shortages, actual shades of bauxite or grey varied and weathered differently according to quality; precise reproduction of actual early 1950s wagon livery does not always match the actual colour specification, and there are few colour photos from the period to work from!

 

 

a high degree of skill and anticipation of each other's actions to minimise the snatch.  Any idiot can drive a passenger train; goods work needs skill!!!

 

[The Johnster]

5 minutes ago, clive s said:

Clive S

 

First post quoted; not guilty m'lud, the site does this occasionally and attributes posts to people who didn't post 'em.  Guilty as charged for the second post quoted.  I was a freight guard at Canton between 1970 and 1977, and plead guilty to that as well...