2mm Products and Queries

[Nigelcliffe]

1 hour ago, Jim T said:

Just a quick query as one relatively new to the Association (this time)...

 

Is there any plan to produce 3’6” dia. wagon wheels? Has this ever been looked at? I’m actually after 8 axles worth of 10-spoke tender wheels for two SR bogie tenders, but it struck me pre-group wagon wheels would do a fairly good impression, at least if these weren’t all 8 split spoke...

 

 

 

I can't answer for current product development, but the cost of a mould tool for wagon/coach wheels is thousands of pounds.   So, the number likely to be sold over a number of years needs to justify that cost.

 

7mm diameter wheels in the locomotive bogie/tender type are listed as a shop item, so even if "temporarily out of stock" are likely to reappear as and when new loco wheel methods are finalised.

 

- Nigel

 

 

[Jim T]

Thanks Nigel

 

I hadn’t appreciated the mound tool costs! Inside bearings it is then...

 

Cheers

Jim

[2mm Andy]

1 hour ago, Jim T said:

Just a quick query as one relatively new to the Association (this time)...

 

Is there any plan to produce 3’6” dia. wagon wheels? Has this ever been looked at? I’m actually after 8 axles worth of 10-spoke tender wheels for two SR bogie tenders, but it struck me pre-group wagon wheels would do a fairly good impression, at least if these weren’t all 8 split spoke...

 

 

 

The short answer is that the Association committee has recently discussed producing some 7mm spoked rolling stock wheels (types tbc) using a bequest left to us to promote pre-grouping modelling (minutes of the meetings are in the member's area of the website). However, they are likely to be some way off being produced yet, and specific types are still to be confirmed.

 

I'd be tempted to use the Association tender wheels as you could build the bogies using split frame techniques and collect current from the track on all the wheels, which would be difficult to do if you used wagon wheels. In 2mm scale it's always handy to get as many wheels picking-up current from the track as possible.

 

Andy

(recently retired Association Secretary)

Edited October 13, 2019 by 2mm Andy

[Scottish Modeller]

On 07/08/2019 at 09:57, Chris Higgs said:

If you have been keeping your eye on the shop webpage, you will see that the Class 08 and Class 11 kits are back. Contrary to the webpage though, there are updated instructions on their way to the shopkeepers.

 

If you are wanting to order a new Class 08 or Class 11, you should order the following parts:

 

Class 08: 3-711a, 3-712a, 3-713a, 3-714a, 3-715a, 3-716, 3-022(3 pairs), plus gears as shown on the chassis arrangement

Class 11: 3-711b, 3-712b 3-713b, 3-714b, 3-715b, 3-716, 3-020(3 pairs), plus gears as shown on the chassis arrangement

 

For the first time, you can build a SR Class 12 as follows without buying two kits, although you are on your own in regards to making the wheels Bulleid-like:

 

Class 12: 3-711b, 3-712a 3-713a, 3-714b, 3-715b, 3-716, 3-022(3 pairs), plus gears as shown on the chassis arrangement

 

If you own an existing unbuilt kit, then the following parts can be used as upgrades (singly or together):

 

Class 08: 3-712a, 3-713a, 3-714a

Class 11: 3-712b 3-713b, 3-714b

 

The new chassis use metric gears, although I expect the imperial gears used in the original kits should also work. It is also recommended you use whichever of 3-266, 3-267 or 3-268 is appropriate to you motor choice. Only coreless motors should be used unless you wish risking melting the body.

 

Instructions Class 8 2018.pdf 5.04 MB · 45 downloads

 

Class 08 body etch.pdf 220.02 kB · 23 downloads

 

Class 08 chassis arrangement.pdf 178.28 kB · 29 downloads

 

Class 08 chassis parts.pdf 185.47 kB · 26 downloads

 

Class 11 body etch.pdf 241.84 kB · 14 downloads

 

Class 11 chassis arrangement.pdf 178.18 kB · 18 downloads

 

Hi Chris,

 

Thanks for the comprehensive list - much appreciated!

 

Now - I'm about to go for this one and it will be my first full 2mm chassis build since 1977! All my other stuff has been conversions with replacement wheelsets.

 

How things have changed - for the better of course!

 

Anyway, before I order the bits - I have questions.

 

1 - Can the new chassis be used under the current Farish body?

 

2 - Looking at the gears in the instructions I am confused as to which gears I need to get.

 

I want to have this model run as slowly as possible as it will be the main loco in a yard model with lots of wagon shuffling.

 

Hopefully there are answers to my queries.

 

Phil H

[Nigelcliffe]

55 minutes ago, Scottish Modeller said:

 

 

Anyway, before I order the bits - I have questions.

 

1 - Can the new chassis be used under the current Farish body?

 

2 - Looking at the gears in the instructions I am confused as to which gears I need to get.

 

 

 

I think you may find that "3-681", chassis etch kit for Farish 08 body, would be sure to fit under a Farish 08.  

 

Gears, the 3-681 option might be easier.... Clicking the title in the shop listing above where 3-681 is shown ("Locomotive Etched Chassis for Commercial Bodies") will bring up a page, which includes a link to the instructions for the etch, which includes all sub-parts needed and a lot of illustrations.

 

 

- Nigel

 

 

[Scottish Modeller]

HI Nigel,

 

OK - Have found the instruction set.

 

Will have a good look tomorrow and see what decision I come to.

 

First thoughts are to go for the 57.1 drive ratio as that should achieve the running speed I want.

 

Thanks

Phil H

[Chris Higgs]

11 hours ago, Scottish Modeller said:

Hi Chris,

 

Thanks for the comprehensive list - much appreciated!

 

Now - I'm about to go for this one and it will be my first full 2mm chassis build since 1977! All my other stuff has been conversions with replacement wheelsets.

 

How things have changed - for the better of course!

 

Anyway, before I order the bits - I have questions.

 

1 - Can the new chassis be used under the current Farish body?

 

2 - Looking at the gears in the instructions I am confused as to which gears I need to get.

 

I want to have this model run as slowly as possible as it will be the main loco in a yard model with lots of wagon shuffling.

 

Hopefully there are answers to my queries.

 

Phil H

 

No, this chassis is to a different scale to the Farish body. So do not confuse these compoents with the replacement Farish chassis 3-681. There is a 3D-printed chassis to go with 3-681 but it has to be purhased from Shapeways: https://www.shapeways.com/product/TUNM6ETAZ/n-class-08-chassis?optionId=58679319&li=marketplace

 

Chris

[Scottish Modeller]

On 16/10/2019 at 08:25, Chris Higgs said:

 

No, this chassis is to a different scale to the Farish body. So do not confuse these compoents with the replacement Farish chassis 3-681. There is a 3D-printed chassis to go with 3-681 but it has to be purhased from Shapeways: https://www.shapeways.com/product/TUNM6ETAZ/n-class-08-chassis?optionId=58679319&li=marketplace

 

Chris

Hi Chris,

 

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.

 

Will see about getting the bits now that the queries have been cleared up.

 

Phil H

 

Update - Shapeways order in

 

Update - Shapeways order delivered.

 

Queries still though!

 

See attached photo of what I think I need to get if I have anything wrong - please advise of the correct item(s)

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 22, 2019 by Scottish Modeller
To add info

[Izzy]

I don't know if this will help with running qualities but here is a video of the 08 I made using a Farish body - from BR lines - on the original version etched chassis that was produced. This is of course 1-148 whereas the new 2mmSA 08 parts will produce a 1-152 version.

 

Sorry the video isn't brilliant but it's the first time I have shot one on my iphone while trying to also hold the controller. It's DCC but in my experience the running is the same under DC. Any gear ratio above 40-1 is adequate I find, this is what the Farish 08 has. I believe this one might be about 49-1 with the older imperial gears I used, 30-1 + 14-18 spur reduction I think, not sure now, a while ago.

 

 

 

Izzy

[SandHutton]

That runs marvellously well, did you install simpsons springing?

 

Guy

[Izzy]

2 hours ago, SandHutton said:

That runs marvellously well, did you install simpsons springing?

 

Guy

 

Thanks, and yes, just to the front and middle axles - no room at the rear one (!), but it was the stay-alive unit that has made it totally reliable in the never-hesitating stakes however dirty the wheels/track might become over time. I do clean quite often, but when the video was shot yesterday i just got it out - not been run for a while, plonked it on the track and ran it as seen.

 

I have posted a few shots of it before, in the workbench thread I think, but these show the basic chassis arrangement, which is slightly different to normal in that the wheels drop out and are retained with a simple n/s keeper-strip. I'm afraid I just don't like the idea of fitting wheels into a chassis and not being able to fiddle with them. I can never build anything right straight off as some can, I always find the need to make adjustments and improvements before things are as I want them. Making up wheelsets and gears before fitting them into the chassis I find much easier for me.

 

 

 

 

I should offer apologies in that the gear reduction is actually the three stage 57-1 version. I had quite forgotten.

 

Anyway I hope it helps those now thinking of making the new 2mm SA kits. Well worth the time and effort. I am always extremely grateful to all those who work so hard designing and producing all these bits.

 

Izzy

 

[John P.]

Beautiful running, good job done. I like your idea of a keeper plate, very simple. I think I'll copy this soon.

[Izzy]

6 hours ago, John P. said:

Beautiful running, good job done. I like your idea of a keeper plate, very simple. I think I'll copy this soon.

 

I don't have a need to build many coupled wheel chassis with diesels although I do have another 08 (in Green) to do sometime, but I have also used this arrangement on a Farish 04 rebuild

 

 

and while working out how to position the retaining screws is an interesting challenge it does seem to be a satisfactory solution I find. Glad it might be of use.

 

Izzy

[Yorkshire Square]

I am pleased to confirm that Shop 3 can now accept orders for the new Locomotive Driving Wheels. The first batches, which I will post off to Steve tomorrow, are shown below. Please see website listings for prices. These wheels feature centres 3D printed in stainless steel with our regular turned rim and a new turn axle. I look forward to seeing these tucked under many a new locomotive!

 

[Yorkshire Square]

More sizes coming soon, btw!

[richbrummitt]

31 minutes ago, Yorkshire Square said:

I am pleased to confirm that Shop 3 can now accept orders for the new Locomotive Driving Wheels. The first batches, which I will post off to Steve tomorrow, are shown below. Please see website listings for prices. These wheels feature centres 3D printed in stainless steel with our regular turned rim and a new turn axle. I look forward to seeing these tucked under many a new locomotive.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Tender wheels are available (GWR sized ones, I mean) again. Excellent news! Thank you for posting, and to all who made this happen.

[Caley Jim]

1 hour ago, Yorkshire Square said:

 I look forward to seeing these tucked under many a new locomotive!

In case anyone hasn't seen elsewhere, there are six under this one already (but they were a special order).

 

 

Jim

[-missy-]

8 hours ago, Yorkshire Square said:

I am pleased to confirm that Shop 3 can now accept orders for the new Locomotive Driving Wheels. The first batches, which I will post off to Steve tomorrow, are shown below. Please see website listings for prices. These wheels feature centres 3D printed in stainless steel with our regular turned rim and a new turn axle. I look forward to seeing these tucked under many a new locomotive!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi.

 

Will the axles be available at any point Tony?

 

Thanks.

 

Julia.

[Yorkshire Square]

Hi Julia

 

I don’t see any reason why we shouldn’t. The next batch of sizes should be coming soon. I’ll look to put the axles into shop at the same time.

[-missy-]

34 minutes ago, Yorkshire Square said:

Hi Julia

 

I don’t see any reason why we shouldn’t. The next batch of sizes should be coming soon. I’ll look to put the axles into shop at the same time.

 

That's great news Tony, thank you.

 

Is there an associated drawing for them? It would be great to know what the tolerance of the axle is so I can ensure a good fit with my wheels.

 

Julia.

Edited February 4, 2020 by -missy-

[Kylestrome]

10 hours ago, Yorkshire Square said:

These wheels feature centres 3D printed in stainless steel with our regular turned rim and a new turn axle.

 

It's very appropriate that these have come available in the Association's jubilee year. Back in 1960 the new method of production would have seemed like pure science fiction.

 

Well done all concerned.

 

David

Edited February 4, 2020 by Kylestrome

[Nigelcliffe]

1 hour ago, -missy- said:

 

That's great news Tony, thank you.

 

Is there an associated drawing for them? It would be great to know what the tolerance of the axle is so I can ensure a good fit with my wheels.

 

Julia.

 

Though I've done a lot of the work on these, I don't have a drawing to hand, Alan Smith may have one as he sourced the axles.  

The axles are 1.5mm diameter, with a flange on them.  The flange is nominally 0.4mm thick and ~2.5mm diameter.  The stub axle to the wheel side is 1.1mm long, thus requiring a 0.2mm recess in the rear of a normal 1.3mm thick wheel.

 

When making the 3D prints, the printed axle hole is 1.4mm and bored out using carefully selected drills.  We tried printing at exact size, and results were not good enough on wobble/concentricity.  

 

 

Hope that helps.   

 

Longer article with some drawings needs writing for the magazine, I hope to do that in the next couple of weeks.

 

- Nigel  

 

[Nigelcliffe]

9 hours ago, Caley Jim said:

In case anyone hasn't seen elsewhere, there are six under this one already (but they were a special order).

 

 

Jim's wheels were a mix of "special order" and "testing the process".  It was an opportunity to test a very odd spoke profile and printing with the balance weights (different on the centre drivers) in place.    As the process produces only a handful of wheels per 3D print, in principle any unusual wheel design can go through the process.   In practise special orders will be "please wait until shop supply of standard items are fully up to speed" or "do it yourself, here's the article describing how".  

 

The wheel for the J94 came about when checking wheel prototype data, I couldn't find many prototypes needing 8.5mm dia wheels, except for the J94.  So, why not make a wheel which looks more "Hunslet/J94" in appearance than "standard spoke". 

 

As Tony said, more sizes are in the pipeline.  We keep learning from each batch, so small tweaks keep being made to the designs and processes.

 

 

 

- Nigel

 

[queensquare]

This is fantastic news, many thanks and congratulations to all involved in the project. I'm keen to try out the new wheels, I've just ordered a set of drivers for an S&D 7F (one of Nigel Hunt's chassis etches).

The ability to do short runs of more specific wheels is also excellent news. I would love to see a Terrier wheel with its characteristic short crank throw (the Association already does a chassis) and a 6mm driver suitable for small, industrial locos - I have things like the Judith Edge kits in mind but there are many others.

 

Jerry

[Yorkshire Square]

32 minutes ago, queensquare said:

This is fantastic news, many thanks and congratulations to all involved in the project. I'm keen to try out the new wheels, I've just ordered a set of drivers for an S&D 7F (one of Nigel Hunt's chassis etches).

The ability to do short runs of more specific wheels is also excellent news. I would love to see a Terrier wheel with its characteristic short crank throw (the Association already does a chassis) and a 6mm driver suitable for small, industrial locos - I have things like the Judith Edge kits in mind but there are many others.

 

Jerry

 

Hi Jerry

 

The majority of legwork on this project has been undertaken by Alan Smith and Nigel Cliffe and we should be extremely grateful for all that they have done to move the project forward. The rest of the committee and myself have basically just been cracking the whip and asking stupid questions. 

 

I think special order wheels might be a little while off yet, as an Association offering anyway. Meanwhile, as an Association we are quite happy to offer components (rims, axles etc) so that members such as Julia might develop their own ideas. I'll ask Alan for a drawing of the axle and then get a small supply into the shops.

 

Anyway, the first batch of wheels are now securely packaged up and on their way to Shop 3. Enjoy!