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My recollection is that the NS locos weren't identical to the BR ones even if they looked superficially similar.

My intention is to build one of the original WD locos numbered 501-510.

These were class 11 locos if I'm not mistaken and this is also catered for in the kit.

It is very well possible that the later series (ordered new from EE) had a different roof shape but that would not have been the case on the original ones.

I want the version with the oil lanterns:

https://perspoor.wordpress.com/2017/09/15/de-ns-dieselserie-500600700/

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My recollection is that the NS locos weren't identical to the BR ones even if they looked superficially similar. In particular I think that the cab roof shape was different (from the EE standard) on the BR ones in order to fit the restrictive BR loading gauge better. If I am right, I suspect that it would be possible to modify a model based on the BR 08 during construction to better represent the NS locos.

 

Err, no. The NS Locos are identical in roof profile to a Class 11, and I used an NS one in designing the Class 11 kit. The kit even has specific parts for the NS version, for example the boxes on the sides.

 

The Class 08  does have a different roof profile that did have to get cut down because when larger 4'6" wheels got fitted to the Class 11 design then it would have fouled the loading gauge. Interestingly the Class 12 which was a SR design that was also the Class 11 fitted with Bulleid style 4'6" wheels did not have the cab cut down even though the height was increased, as the loading gauge of the routes it ran over must have been able to accomodate it.

 

Chris

Edited by Chris Higgs
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Please note that Shop 3 will be closed for most all of January and February. If you're likely to need items from that shop, please get your order in before Christmas. Thanks!

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As a member of the 2mm FS association and also a N gauge society member one product I believe would be most useful would be an etch of various wagon components ie brake levers,wagon strapping,sole bars etc.I imagine that quite a few association members model in N gauge converted to 2mm fine scale by use of the association wheels sets and these type of etches would be useful for fine detailing RTR chassis.When I modelled in 4mm these etches where available from mainly trains and allowed you to improve the appearance of RTR stock Wizard models currently supply these etches could an approach be made to see if these could be reduced to 2mm scale by the association or the n gauge society? I feel certain that 2mm etches would prove a useful addition to 2mm or n N gauge modellers What are the thoughts and opinions of other members?

Ian Galloway       

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As an NGS member, I would certainly find wagon strapping useful. There has been the odd occasion when I've wanted to build a specific open wagon to place on a Peco chassis but didn't know how to replicate the strapping.

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As a member of the 2mm FS association and also a N gauge society member one product I believe would be most useful would be an etch of various wagon components ie brake levers,wagon strapping,sole bars etc.I imagine that quite a few association members model in N gauge converted to 2mm fine scale by use of the association wheels sets and these type of etches would be useful for fine detailing RTR chassis.When I modelled in 4mm these etches where available from mainly trains and allowed you to improve the appearance of RTR stock Wizard models currently supply these etches could an approach be made to see if these could be reduced to 2mm scale by the association or the n gauge society? I feel certain that 2mm etches would prove a useful addition to 2mm or n N gauge modellers What are the thoughts and opinions of other members?

Ian Galloway       

 

Some "generic" etched strapping would be very useful for 2mm modellers of many varieties.

 

Equally, generic brake gear V hangers and levers of different lengths would also be very handy not only for detailing and scratch building, but for adding to 3D prints (e.g. the "Stockprints" LBSCR wagons on Shapeways have notches for etched W-irons from the 2mm range, but I think just rely on "spares" for brake levers). They'd also come in handy as spares!

 

I don't know if the Association has the artwork for existing chassis etches in a format that bits like the existing designs for brake levers could be copy-pasted onto a composite sheet as a low effort way of doing something like this?

 

J

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The new Point Rodding booklet is now available to members via Shop 1 and to non-members via the Association website - http://www.2mm.org.uk/products/nms/

 

Point%20Rodding%20Pic.jpg

I bought a copy of Jim at Warley show and it is a great read - got to page 16 before eyes gave out on the train!  I am sure it will help lift many models in the future.

Robert 

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I don't know if the Association has the artwork for existing chassis etches in a format that bits like the existing designs for brake levers could be copy-pasted onto a composite sheet as a low effort way of doing something like this?

 

J

 

The short answer is that the Association doesn't hold the artwork for existing chassis etches at all. The etches are ordered from the various individuals who drew them (Bob Jones, Chris Higgs, etc.). Following Bill Blackburn's death, we no longer have access to the artwork for the chassis he designed (although there are good stocks of most of the chassis, 2-330 excepted) and enquiries to the etchers have drawn a blank.

 

Andy

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How would we stand directly tracing /replicating Bill's design for 3-330 (and others as they run out)? It's a supremely useful chassis for (pre)grouping era modelling, and much more user friendly design than many other chassis. It might be generic, but it's especially quick and stress free for batch building in volume.

 

I'd be prepared to do the drawing work if required.

 

Justin

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How would we stand directly tracing /replicating Bill's design for 3-330 (and others as they run out)? It's a supremely useful chassis for (pre)grouping era modelling, and much more user friendly design than many other chassis. It might be generic, but it's especially quick and stress free for batch building in volume.

 

I'd be prepared to do the drawing work if required.

 

Justin

 

Thanks Justin - replacing this chassis etch is in hand and it will re-appear in due course. The others are a lower priority as I believe that there are significant stocks of these at present.

 

Andy

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Would it be a good idea for the Association to request copies of the CAD from the folks who drew them?

 

Not insist, just ask nicely, perhaps with some assurances about how it would and would not be used.

 

I know this is fraught with problems of compatability and obsolescence and that different people draw etch artwork in different ways but surely having a copy of someone else's artwork gives you more options than not having it?

 

A couple of years back after having got permission to get etches done from someone else's photo tools, the etchers were unable to locate them... so sadly this doesnt seem to be a one off problem.

 

Regards, Andy

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Would it be a good idea for the Association to request copies of the CAD from the folks who drew them?

 

Not insist, just ask nicely, perhaps with some assurances about how it would and would not be used.

 

I know this is fraught with problems of compatability and obsolescence and that different people draw etch artwork in different ways but surely having a copy of someone else's artwork gives you more options than not having it?

 

A couple of years back after having got permission to get etches done from someone else's photo tools, the etchers were unable to locate them... so sadly this doesnt seem to be a one off problem.

 

Regards, Andy

 

HI Andy,

 

I don't want to go into too much detail on a public forum, but it isn't always that simple. Some suppliers have been paid to produce artwork, some have donated the artwork or etches, some sell us the etches but retain copyright of the artwork and don't want to hand over digital copies. Quite often the correspondence and agreements made at the time have been lost or filed somewhere safe (if paper copies ever existed in the first place!) and then add in the number of different Product Officers and Sales Officers we have had over the past 20 years and you can see why things can get a tad confusing!

 

The management committee has kicked this problem around a few times over the past few years, and has again recently started to think more about ownership of artwork, etc. with more recent products, and has started approaching some of the existing suppliers to try to safeguard artwork, etc.

 

Andy

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Would it be a good idea for the Association to request copies of the CAD from the folks who drew them?

 

 

In this particular case, the CAD system would have been "cardboard aided design".   The original artwork would have been done on paper using a big traditional drawing table with pens, many times the size of the finished item.

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In this particular case, the CAD system would have been "cardboard aided design".   The original artwork would have been done on paper using a big traditional drawing table with pens, many times the size of the finished item.

 

As someone who once had a Littlejohn copy camera the size of the average car, (among other stuff as part of an art studio/darkroom/platemaking complex employing around a dozen staff, 6 of them artists), to convert such stuff into photo tools/etched plates in the days when litho was king, it is sobering to realise that all this kind of work can now be done with a click of a mouse on really small devices by a single person. Well, perhaps not the actual etching bit. I often wonder whether litho still plays any part.

 

Izzy

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The first etched vehicles I got involved with were two (unusual) panelled carriages which we paid a printer a small fortune to etch in zinc. The paneling came out beautifully but the printer could only do one-stage etching so the actual windows still had to be drilled and filed out - it was all but fifty years ago, mind (and in 4mm scale).

Edited by bécasse
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Some "generic" etched strapping would be very useful for 2mm modellers of many varieties.

 

Equally, generic brake gear V hangers and levers of different lengths would also be very handy not only for detailing and scratch building, but for adding to 3D prints (e.g. the "Stockprints" LBSCR wagons on Shapeways have notches for etched W-irons from the 2mm range, but I think just rely on "spares" for brake levers). They'd also come in handy as spares!

 

I don't know if the Association has the artwork for existing chassis etches in a format that bits like the existing designs for brake levers could be copy-pasted onto a composite sheet as a low effort way of doing something like this?

 

J

 

If a member were to produce some artwork, I'm sure we could look at stocking them. The product development team have a number of high priority projects at the moment so we can't rely on them to progress this right now. Volunteers stand in a line...

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Is this public forum the best place to be discussing what are Association policy matters?  Would it not be better to have this sort of discussion on the VAG?

 

Jim

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Is realistically the only solution to PO wagon lettering to paint it yourself? I've only found one supplier of transfers and they're a bit on the naff side. I'm looking to pick up half a dozen RCH 1887 wagons from the society shops!

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Is realistically the only solution to PO wagon lettering to paint it yourself? I've only found one supplier of transfers and they're a bit on the naff side. I'm looking to pick up half a dozen RCH 1887 wagons from the society shops!

Have you tried Robbie's Rolling Stock? See http://www.robbiesrollingstock.co.uk/ 

 

It is some years since I ordered anything from him, but when I did he was able to adapt the transfer sides to whatever size wagon you asked for.

 

Bill

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Have you tried Robbie's Rolling Stock? See http://www.robbiesrollingstock.co.uk/ 

 

It is some years since I ordered anything from him, but when I did he was able to adapt the transfer sides to whatever size wagon you asked for.

 

Bill

 

I used his service a few years back for some custom wagons for my Dad and brother on significant birthdays and was very pleased with what was provided. Usual disclaimer.

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New in shop 3 ready for it reopening in mid-February:

 

2r4jv9y.jpg

 

2rco7df.jpg

 

ih1qab.jpg

 

2mh6jqa.jpg

 

Products 3-266 to 3-269 are 3D printed mounts, designed to cradle mainly round motors of various diameter, but they may be adapted for use with others such as flat can motors that feature curved sides.
 
The mounts also feature pins for use in conjunction with certain Masterclass chassis kits. If not required, these may be carefully removed.
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I used his service a few years back for some custom wagons for my Dad and brother on significant birthdays and was very pleased with what was provided. Usual disclaimer.

 

 

I find the fact that he uses modern fonts just too much of a compromise - when you can recognise Arial Black, Arial, or whichever, it looks VERY different from the work of an Edwardian or Inter-war signwriter.

 

Our very own Geoff Jones designed a TrueType font called PO Wagon several years ago, which he shared on the Yahoo VAG. With his permission I've updated this in FontForge to an OpenType font to be compatible with more recent operating systems. The proportions of the letters look much more authentic, and the custom designed shading font work very effectively. I've designed some complete wagon sides that I keep meaning to send off to Railtec to print in white.

 

You could also use the font to design your own sides using the original "Robbie's" approach (print the wagon side colour onto your decal, either on white decal paper, or on clear over a white wagon body), or something I've been considering is to print the shadow and and a thin outline in another colour that will show up using clear decal paper, that you can then use as a template to paint over (white paint pen etc?) - seems like a potential good half way house with hand painted lettering. 

 

J

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Here are some of the designs in Inkscape, with colours for design purposes only. Not quite happy with the 'cursive' font for the tare details etc.

 

post-3740-0-59654200-1548029390_thumb.png

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Here are some of the designs in Inkscape, with colours for design purposes only. Not quite happy with the 'cursive' font for the tare details etc.

 

attachicon.gifpowagons.png

 

They look very good Justin. I wouldn't worry too much about the font on the tare details in 2mm, I've received very favorable comments about how good they look on some of my PO wagons when they are no more than a series of tiny dots and dashes!

 

Jerry 

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