Ruston Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 (edited) Having now finished building two of Isaac Watt Boulton's stable, I am going for a hat-trick. I did start pattern-making for Eclipse but although that project is not dead it is certainly sleeping well. Hercules the second is a bit of a bruiser when compared to the previous builds. It isn't as wacky as No.11 but is definitely more out of the ordinary than Leodis. According the The Chronicles, Mr. Boulton was walking along The Strand, one day in October 1872, when he was "accosted by an elderly stranger", who asked him if he wanted to buy a locomotive. Hercules was found in a siding of the Metropolitan District Railway, at Hammersmith and after inspection was bought on the spot for £500! She was sent straight from Hammersmith on hire to the Severn & Wye for two months before going to Ashton, where she was painted by Mr.Knowles. In December of 1872 she was hired to The Stanton Iron Co., Beeston; in 1874 to Miller & Sons, Bridgend; and in January 1875 was sold to Scotlane Colliery, Wigan for £1000! Obviously I.W. Boulton knew a bargain when he saw one. In The Chronicles, Bennett says: "Who her makers were was never ascertained - the Yorkshire Engine Company has been suggested; but a great similarity in the bunker, wheels and other lower parts to an 0-6-0 tank supplied by James Cross & Co., of St Helens, to the Southern and South-Eastern Railway of Portugal (illustrated in the Locomotive, August 1924) about 1859 makes it more probable that she was a creation of that firm. Further thoughts on this, and who she may have been built and worked for are provided in an article written by Trevor Lodge in the Industrial Railway Record issue 212, March 2013. She was described as having the appearance of a huge square case, which is clear from the drawing and the photo in the IRR article but before I start building the model I have to know, or at least have something else similar to go on, what the top would have looked like. The front of the loco was a more less flush surface, with a very flat smokebox door. The ends of the tanks and the smokebox were all plated as one. There exists one more known photo of Hercules and it is looking down upon the top but it is so dark and indistinct in that area that it's not possible to say exactly how the top of the tanks and boiler looked., I have been told that Iain Rice built a model of this loco and his efforts were published in a model railway magazine but I don't know the name of the magazine, let alone the issue. If anyone has this could they post pictures (or at least send me them by PM) so I can see how Mr. Rice went about building his version? Edited June 20, 2018 by Ruston 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold NeilHB Posted March 26, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 26, 2018 Dave, I have copies of the Iain Rice article where he describes the construction of his model of Hercules. If you can PM me your email address please I’ll send them over tomorrow when I’m back at the computer. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killian keane Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 (edited) Glad to see you're at it again! I beleive piccies of a Hercules model were posted on RMWeb before (probably the Iain Rice model mentioned) This reminds me I really must launch into researching the origin of 'Lady of the Lakes'... Edited March 26, 2018 by Killian keane 11 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruston Posted March 27, 2018 Author Share Posted March 27, 2018 Thanks to Neil I now have a copy of Iain Rice's article. I can only assume that when he built his model he didn't have access to either of the known photographs. As can be seen in the above photo, Mr. Rice made the front as two free standing tanks, either side of the smokebox, but photos show that the front of the tanks were plated across, flush with the smokebox. As for exactly what the top looked like, I guess he also went on his own best guess so I'll probably follow the same path. Two things he omitted are other fittings on top of the tanks, in addition to the fillers, and a box behind the dome. Rosling Bennett also omitted the box from his drawing in The Chronicles, so it would seem that Iain Rice certainly didn't have access to photographs as this appears in the published photo (IRR 212) and the photo belonging to London Transport. I presumed the box was a toolbox but Trevor Lodge suggested that it could be a header tank associated with steam condensing apparatus. Shown on the somewhat dark LT photo are other fittings on the top of the tanks, which may well add weight to Trevor Lodge's argument that Hercules may have originally been fitted with condensing apparatus. 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruston Posted May 25, 2018 Author Share Posted May 25, 2018 (edited) This project has advanced somewhat. Earlier this week I began pattern-making for Hercules and when it came to the smokebox door I wasn't convinced that Iain Rice's version was right, especially (as mentioned previously) how I suspect he never had access to photos of Hercules. Mr. Rice fitted rectangular doors on his model but the photo in the Industrial Railway Record doesn't show it well, so no one could really say that it was wrong but I have found a photo of one of 4 locomotives built by James Cross & Co. for Portugal. It does feature a double door but it isn't rectangular and although it isn't conclusive proof I am going with it for my model. The Portugese loco shares similarities with Hercules, which are what must have led Trevor Lodge, and indeed Rosling Bennett, to say that Hercules was built by Cross. Going slightly off topic, but still very interesting, is this photo of another Cross locomotive, built in 1863 for the Anglesey Central Railway. A standard gauge Fairlie! I have never seen such a thing before. Note the design of the slide bars. Is anyone up for the challenge of scratchbuilding this beast? Edited May 25, 2018 by Ruston 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Regularity Posted May 25, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 25, 2018 You need to get out more, Dave: http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/lms/smjsa95.htm And also: http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/lms/smj_misc365.htm 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Argos Posted May 26, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 26, 2018 I've always thought the E&WJR Fairlie looked far too modern for the report build date of 1876. It's probably the valve gear that does it but it looks like something built in the 1920s to my eyes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagonman Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 There were some other standard gauge double Fairlies in South Wales somewhere...but I can't remember where. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruston Posted June 11, 2018 Author Share Posted June 11, 2018 (edited) It isn't very exciting but... Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you... Hercules' running plate! Made from 18 thou. thick cartridge brass. Most of the bodywork will be made from this same material, with some in 10 thou. and, possibly custom-etched overlays for the outer layers of the tank sides in order to save on either dimpling out hundreds of rivets, or fitting hundreds of Archers resin rivets. Either option would, no doubt, send me stark raving mad. Edited November 4, 2022 by Ruston 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruston Posted June 13, 2018 Author Share Posted June 13, 2018 (edited) The frame plates, made from 40 thou. engraving brass. Edited November 4, 2022 by Ruston 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir douglas Posted June 13, 2018 Share Posted June 13, 2018 james_cross_Mountaineer.jpg A standard gauge Fairlie! I have never seen such a thing before. Note the design of the slide bars. Is anyone up for the challenge of scratchbuilding this beast? thats the mountaineer on the Brecon & Merthyr rly, one of fairlies first engines but unsuccesful because of the central steam dome There were some other standard gauge double Fairlies in South Wales somewhere...but I can't remember where. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Argos Posted June 13, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 13, 2018 (edited) The frame plates, made from 40 thou. engraving brass. HerculesFrames-001.jpg Hi Rushton, If you don't mind me asking, 40 thou is quite thick (1mm?), are you milling these frames out or using hand tools and patience? Edited June 13, 2018 by Argos Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruston Posted June 13, 2018 Author Share Posted June 13, 2018 Hi Rushton, If you don't mind me asking, 40 thou is quite thick (1mm?), are you milling these frames out or using hand tools and patience? I have milled them. I like to use this thick brass for frames as it makes for a far stronger and more rigid structure than the sort of thickness used in etched kits. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruston Posted June 15, 2018 Author Share Posted June 15, 2018 (edited) The chaps in the erecting shop have been busy. The thick brass layer on top of the running plate is the baseplate for the bodywork. It is tapped 14BA for the running plate to body screws and 10BA for the screws that hold the body to the frames. Edited November 4, 2022 by Ruston 6 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruston Posted June 17, 2018 Author Share Posted June 17, 2018 (edited) Hercules is taking shape. Yesterday I made and fitted the lower firebox sides and two of the brake hangers. Today it was the turn of the tank sides and front, along with cutting some tube for the boiler. The tube has had a section cut out to accomodate the drive unit. The splasher profiles are also in place but can't be seen in this shot. Edited November 4, 2022 by Ruston 16 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruston Posted June 20, 2018 Author Share Posted June 20, 2018 (edited) The boilersmiths have also been busy. I have just finished making and fitting the firebox section. The tanks are ready for fitting but first the smokebox must be made and fitted. Once the boiler is ready it will have the ends, with locating discs. soldered on. The assembly can then be soldered in and the tanks also soldered in. It is all quite a precision fit, with there being only a few thousandths of an inch either side of the boiler for the tanks to fit. The tanks are full of lead sheet and so far the whole lot weighs 150g. By the time it is finished I can see it being 300 or more grammes in weight - far more traction that I will ever need. Edited November 4, 2022 by Ruston 9 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold NeilHB Posted June 20, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 20, 2018 Looking good so far Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DGW1247 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 This project has advanced somewhat. Earlier this week I began pattern-making for Hercules and when it came to the smokebox door I wasn't convinced that Iain Rice's version was right, especially (as mentioned previously) how I suspect he never had access to photos of Hercules. Mr. Rice fitted rectangular doors on his model but the photo in the Industrial Railway Record doesn't show it well, so no one could really say that it was wrong but I have found a photo of one of 4 locomotives built by James Cross & Co. for Portugal. james_cross1.jpg It does feature a double door but it isn't rectangular and although it isn't conclusive proof I am going with it for my model. The Portugese loco shares similarities with Hercules, which are what must have led Trevor Lodge, and indeed Rosling Bennett, to say that Hercules was built by Cross. Going slightly off topic, but still very interesting, is this photo of another Cross locomotive, built in 1863 for the Anglesey Central Railway. james_cross_Mountaineer.jpg A standard gauge Fairlie! I have never seen such a thing before. Note the design of the slide bars. Is anyone up for the challenge of scratchbuilding this beast? On page 121 of ‘Locomotives of the LNWR Southern Division’ is a photo in which about half of the front end of ‘Hercules’ is visible, but in deep shadow. The top edge the smokebox door or doors is just visible. Hope this is of use ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandhole Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 You are doing it again?!!!! This is a fearsome thing!!!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruston Posted June 22, 2018 Author Share Posted June 22, 2018 On page 121 of ‘Locomotives of the LNWR Southern Division’ is a photo in which about half of the front end of ‘Hercules’ is visible, but in deep shadow. The top edge the smokebox door or doors is just visible. Hope this is of use ! Thanks for that. Would you be able to scan the photo and either post it, or send it in a PM? Where and when was the photo taken? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruston Posted June 23, 2018 Author Share Posted June 23, 2018 (edited) I have been giving some more thought to Hercules' smokebox door... I have wondered about the Portugese locomotives and how the smokebox doors look a bit, well, er... foreign and have read that at least some of these were rebuilt, so the doors, and even the whole boiler, could be different from what they were built with, so have decided against fitting that style. I don't think that Iain Rice's version, with two rectangular doors suits the loco at all; it's of a much older style and looking through E.L. Ahrons The British Steam Locomotive1825-1925, the majority of the locomotives shown that are of the same period as Hercules (built 1865) have what we would know as a normal circular single smokebox door .On the drawing of Hercules there are no handles for the dart of such a door but then there are no handles of any kind shown either. But there is another possible style, which I think I am going for and that is a circular door without a a dart and centre handles, exactly like the door on a Borrows well tank - a single circular door held by screw catches. After all, Edward Borrows, well tanks were built to a design previously built by Cross in 1866 so I think that it's reasonable to assume that Hercules could have had such a smokebox door. More on the build itself. Tanks and boiler fully assembled and bunker built up. Brake standard made and fitted. Boiler backhead is still a work in progress and has the firehole door fitted. The running plate now has splashers. Edited November 4, 2022 by Ruston 11 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruston Posted June 27, 2018 Author Share Posted June 27, 2018 (edited) Buffer beams and buffers now on, plus smokebox door made and fitted. I have also found a cast whitemetal dome in my box of bits that is the right shape and size. I have given the buffer beams extensions for use with contractors' and chaldron type wagons. The real Hercules isn't shown in photos, or the drawing with these additions but they are necessary for the planned layout, on which this loco will be used. Edited November 4, 2022 by Ruston 16 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killian keane Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 I quite like the choice of smokebox door with the hinges on the left and the three dogs, very distinctive 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruston Posted June 28, 2018 Author Share Posted June 28, 2018 (edited) This evening's task was to make the chimney. As far as the bodywork goes I only have to finish the backhead, make sandboxes and safety valves. I have ordered some plunger pickups from Alan Gibson and when they arrive I can get on with the frames. The cylinders, slidebars and motion are still on the drawing board. Edited November 4, 2022 by Ruston 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold NeilHB Posted June 28, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 28, 2018 Absolutely superb Ruston! Smokebox door looks right to me as well - good choice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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