Il Grifone Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 (edited) I suppose the real test is whether they seem like the effort of upgrading . On that basis, and on the basis of projects done, I have to nominate: Coaches: Airfix LMS interdistrict non-corridors Airfix Stanier 60' composite (but not the 57' coaches which have the wrong underframe) Airfix Mk2Ds The Triang-Hornby Mk1s are marginal, and I fear their Mk2Bs are just too much trouble (I've not worked on it but the Hornby GW Collett restaurant car would still be useable) Lima LMS bogie CCT The Lima BR CCT scrubs up well , but the Bachmann model supercedes the project Wagons: Dublo GW MICA - conversion to late version effective and still the only route Mainline 16T - needs new fitted chassis as 1976 Horwich rebuild Hornby 45T GLW tankers scrub up well if you can find them cheap (I've almost used the stash of 6 I bought from Hewins in Grimsby c1984 at 50p each) Triang-Hornby VIX ferry van???? Lima Sealion Hornby ?ex NER refridgerated van body (scrap trhe chassis obviously) Hornby and Dapol 21T steel PO minerals Lima PAA grain hoppers DMUs: Lima 156 Lima 101 We are currently stuck with the Hornby 142 as the only option: the bodyshell seems accurate though not refined Locos: Airfix 31 scrubs up ok. It always ran the best of my teenage diesels The old Dublo/Wrenn 20 is obviously outclassed by the excellent Bachmann model both mechanically and as a bodyshell. But Dublo did a better job than Lima on the 20. The VIX van The Hornby 29 remains the only game in town for the forseeable future TT 31 was an outstanding model for its time, and the TT Medfit body was superb Unfortunately the NER (ex H&B) van has recessed panels where there should be flush matchboarded sides. I have three with intention of some surgery, but it would be a real hassle. The later version is too short. All down to Tri-ang buying in the Pyramid Trackmaster range which lumbered them with a 16 foot underframe.... http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=20266 From sometime ago - it can be seen that my H&B vans have been in stock for a while! (One dates back to the introduction of the model - 1972 IIRC.) The VIX needs the doors thinning down and a new underframe, but is otherwise OK (another project....). Edited July 12, 2018 by Il Grifone Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Colin_McLeod Posted July 10, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 10, 2018 Modern standard models are expensive. Older models are more affordable and I believe still have a value for money role in model railways today. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacific231G Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 Modern standard models are expensive. Older models are more affordable and I believe still have a value for money role in model railways today. I'm happy with my later (but pre-Hornby) Jouef steam locos and Roco diesels. They're not as detailed as the latest offerings but they certainly look the part. The Jouef locos are a bit noisy but i've three Roco 63000s (an early French diesel class from the 1950s still just hanging on today) and they run incredibly quietly and smoothly. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Northmoor Posted July 10, 2018 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted July 10, 2018 I'm happy with my later (but pre-Hornby) Jouef steam locos and Roco diesels. They're not as detailed as the latest offerings but they certainly look the part. The Jouef locos are a bit noisy but i've three Roco 63000s (an early French diesel class from the 1950s still just hanging on today) and they run incredibly quietly and smoothly. Not been out of its box for years, but I have somewhere a Roco DB "Kof" shunting tractor (it's actually a loco, for the uninitiated) from a breakdown train which we bought in Salzburg in 1988. I once tested how slowly I could get it moving without stalling. I seem to remember getting it down to something like three minutes to travel a foot. This was about ten times better than what you could achieve with a contemporary OO loco. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 Not been out of its box for years, but I have somewhere a Roco DB "Kof" shunting tractor (it's actually a loco, for the uninitiated) from a breakdown train which we bought in Salzburg in 1988. I once tested how slowly I could get it moving without stalling. I seem to remember getting it down to something like three minutes to travel a foot. This was about ten times better than what you could achieve with a contemporary OO loco. The problem is the real ones don't travel that slowly. Three minutes to travel the length of a carriage? The driver would be handed his P45 on the spot. Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenser Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 Unfortunately the NER (ex H&B) van has recessed panels where there should be flush matchboarded sides. I have three with intention of some surgery, but it would be areal hassle. The later version is too short. All down to Tri-ang buying in the Pyramid Trackmaster range which lumbered them with a 16 foot underframe.... http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=20266 From sometime ago - it can be seen that my H&B vans have been in stock for a while! (One dates back to the introduction of the model - 1972 IIRC.) The VIX needs the doors thinning down and a new underframebut is otherwise OK (another project....). The H&B van is not the model I meant Hornby did a later van c1990 which is a refridgerated van and looks very much as if it should be an NER (not H&B) vehicle, as it is very similar to NER merchandise vans. Hornby even released it in LNER livery in white at one point. I don't have detailed references to establish what it is - as my main period is modern image BR and my interests are south of the Humber , the relevant volume of Tatlow would be too much of an extravagance Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted July 10, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 10, 2018 Why? So long as he was ready to take the train out to time it is of little consequence. But I take your point; some moves on the real railway were carried out very slowly and with the most extreme caution, buffering up to stock with passengers aboard or vans on which loading or unloading was in progress for example, and propelling stock into goods sheds, where you often couldn't actually see what you were about to hit and were relying on relayed hand signals. The point is that, if a model can be driven that slowly in a smooth way, then it will be very easy to drive it at a proper speed for any move, even those mentioned above and the like. Modern RTR is good enough for this, but some of it is only just good enough for it, and I have a locos which is restricted to passenger work because I am not fully confident of realistic speed operation in freight shunting, although it can be done at a push. To be fair, this is one of the less current offerings and not really up to modern standards, a Hornby 2721 which is used on the miner's workman's. In a perfect world a model loco should be capable of any speed it's prototype was, down to the very slowest, and the mentioned Roco tractor seems to have achieved this in a very diminutive form, remarkable for 80s RTR and an indication of how far behind we Brits were in those days. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted July 10, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 10, 2018 (edited) Airfix Mk2Ds Especially with a few windows filled in and painted yellow..... TT 31 was an outstanding model for its time, and the TT Medfit body was superb Forgot about the Medfit - pity about the chassis. The Conflat L and containers was also a superb moulding Cheers, Mick Edited July 11, 2018 by newbryford Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium John M Upton Posted July 11, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 11, 2018 Always liked the old Lima PGA hopper wagon for some reason. A rake of those behind a Class 59 never failed to impress. Was less fond of the bogie tippler wagons though which I see Hornby now want fifteen sheets a throw which is ridiculous! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 Speaking of Lima wagons and carriages, the GWR horsebox wasn't a bad model. I know the chassis wasn't great and there was errors in the roof fittings but it was easily detailed. Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 The H&B van is not the model I meant Hornby did a later van c1990 which is a refridgerated van and looks very much as if it should be an NER (not H&B) vehicle, as it is very similar to NER merchandise vans. Hornby even released it in LNER livery in white at one point. I don't have detailed references to establish what it is - as my main period is modern image BR and my interests are south of the Humber , the relevant volume of Tatlow would be too much of an extravagance I did realise that afterwards, but my edit to that effect seems to have disappeared into cyberspace. I was always put off buying one of these as it appears too short (presumably why I forgot about it). I understand the real NER vans are 17 feet over headstocks on a 10 foot wheelbase, but, not being an expert on NER rolling stock (or anything else!), I'm not sure. I believe it was released in two versions:- in NER livery or at least with NER style lettering (with the number of a vehicle built in 1926) and in LNER livery. I found this https://www.landscape-guides.com/product/scale-drawing-of-8-ton-refrigerator-van-an-original-1933-north-eastern-railway-co-blue-print-wagon-scale-drawing/ The Hornby coke wagon is also based on an NER design (N5??). It was first released lettered NER (in blue!) and numbered 52220, which is not in accordance with NER practice I gather, but I'll leave that to those who know what they're talking about! Here it is (in grey) with a roof stuck on as a "cattle van" (a bit of a problem loading without any doors!). The underframe gives it two braking systems - end and side levers! We'll ignore the vacuum cylinder!). https://picclick.co.uk/Hornby-N-E-R-Cattle-Van-183196708128.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzgresleyfan Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 Lima Western. I got two one Christmas and fell in love with them. Completely outclassed now of course, but I still entertain the idea of replacing the pizza cutters and investing in the Brassmasters conversion. Given I have 6 to upgrade, it may not happen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bike2steam Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 - seem to have become more popular as modellers have moved into the diesel age. So that's why I'm spending less time on the computer, for an old steam only dinosaur, I'm spending more time in the workshop - life has it's compensations Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 Possibly the oldest decent rolling stock model (apart from the planking and the bogies) is the ancient Tri-ang utility van (R.226/7)* from 1957. It's still in the Hornby catalogue (or was until recently), but now costs a lot more in real terms than its original 7/6d. Their horse box wasn't bad either, but also had the raised planking grooves. which made it obsolete when the Lima version of the same thing appeared. *That's what Tri-ang called it.... 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GNR Dave Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 My late Grandad bought me a Minitrix N gauge Britannia and a couple of coaches (Mk 1s in BRS green ?) for my 13th birthday. I always thought the level of detail and trouble free running to be better than anything I had come across. It made the Grafar stuff available at the time look rather crude. That was 44 years ago and I still think it looks the biz today. And it has working lights ! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockershovel Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 (edited) On the basis of pure nostalgia for a well realised gimmick, the Triang R23 Mail coach set; I believe that a version of this is STILL in the Hornby range? I was up in the loft a while ago and found No 1 Son’s version, which dates from the early 90s Edited July 21, 2018 by rockershovel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS1977 Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 Whilst there is still a mail coach in the Hornby range, it is a completely different vehicle to the Tri-ang one. The current Hornby model is longer (same length as the Railroad GWR bogie coaches) and unlike the Tri-ang one has both the pick-up and drop-off doors on the same side. For some reason the Tri-ang version had the doors on opposite sides, which limits operation to single track lines only! The Tri-ang one was operated by a fixed metal ramp built into the relevant track sections, whereas the Hornby one is operated by clip-in sprung ramps. The Hornby version has been in the range for quite a while though, I bought mine over 30 years ago (and it had been available in other liveries at least as far back as the 1980 catalogue). I saw a trader selling new ones at a show about five years ago and was quite surprised to see that they were the same price as I had paid for mine quarter of a century earlier! However they have gone up in price somewhat since then... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 The Hornby TPO dates from 1978. http://www.hornbyguide.com/item_year_details.asp?itemyearid=695 It was part of the new range of coaches meant to be "super detailed" compared to the generic coaches they had previously. Maunsells, Colletts, Gresleys, Staniers and Pullmans that looked like the real thing. Pity they weren't authentic models like the brand new Airfix and Mainline carriages were. Which still stand up now. Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted July 21, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 21, 2018 Don't think it's fair to call Triang Hornby coaches generic; they were the first scale length RTR Mk1s, and significantly better than the tinplate sided Hornby Dublos when they were introduced in the 60s. The problem with the 'super detail' Colletts, Staniers, Maunsells (green liveried Collietts) and Thompsons was the bogies, which were B1s straight off the mk1s in 1978. Airfix's Centeneries, A27/30, B set and Staniers had the correct bogies, and are still acceptable models now; the auto is still in production. The other problem was the finish, dodgy colours, poor printing, and overbright toy look compared to the new competition from Airfix, Lima, and Mainline. Airfix attempted to solve the body thickness/flush window issue with a sort of prismatic effect, but all suffered from it. Modern RTR is, as is should be, much better; Hornby and Bachmann's current output is probably about as good as can be rationally expected from a mass produced RTR items. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted July 21, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 21, 2018 Possibly the oldest decent rolling stock model (apart from the planking and the bogies) is the ancient Tri-ang utility van (R.226/7)* from 1957. It's still in the Hornby catalogue (or was until recently), but now costs a lot more in real terms than its original 7/6d. Their horse box wasn't bad either, but also had the raised planking grooves. which made it obsolete when the Lima version of the same thing appeared. *That's what Tri-ang called it.... I have one of these in a box awaiting working up, but to be honest it's 'not too bad for 1957'. It's got good scale B1 bogies, which are wrong for it, the opening doors are far too thick (be fair, it was intended as a toy), and the printing is not good. The underframe is the generic one from the concurrent 8 inch Stanier(ish) coaches, and generic/wrong for anything. And the roof profile, very distinctive for Ashford vehicles, has not been attempted. Worst feature, which I am just going to have to live with if I ever do anything with the thing, is the planking, which. presumably because of the moulding method, shows the gaps between the planks as raised moulded lines. Then you have to tackle all that tiny lettering... Working it up will be quite a bit of work, or modelling fun if you want to look at it that way. A Roxey kit is far better for less effort, and it probably isn't possible to equal the standard of the Roxey using the 'utitily van' as a starting point. New roof, new thinner doors, window bars, bogies, underframe detail, buffers, gangways, and by the time you've removed the raised plank joins and scribed new ones you might as well have just scratch built it. This is a shame, because it's a very long lived model (I think the wrong chassis 08 is still being knocked out for some sets and dates from 1955) and has a lot of character. But this is a prime candidate for a new RTR release to modern standards, as is the similar (but different enough for it not to be converted from it) bogie brake; contemporary stock is available to run with it and both types were long-lived. Tell you what, I'll crack on with my old Triang so that Hornby or Bachmann can bring one out a good one to make my effort vainglorious... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 Don't think it's fair to call Triang Hornby coaches generic; they were the first scale length RTR Mk1s, and significantly better than the tinplate sided Hornby Dublos when they were introduced in the 60s. The problem with the 'super detail' Colletts, Staniers, Maunsells (green liveried Collietts) and Thompsons was the bogies, which were B1s straight off the mk1s in 1978. Airfix's Centeneries, A27/30, B set and Staniers had the correct bogies, and are still acceptable models now; the auto is still in production. The other problem was the finish, dodgy colours, poor printing, and overbright toy look compared to the new competition from Airfix, Lima, and Mainline. Airfix attempted to solve the body thickness/flush window issue with a sort of prismatic effect, but all suffered from it. Modern RTR is, as is should be, much better; Hornby and Bachmann's current output is probably about as good as can be rationally expected from a mass produced RTR items. What were the things called Caledonian. GWR or the Thompsons meant to be? Or the Clerestories? Can somebody identify this diagram of GWR coach? http://www.hornbyguide.com/item_year_details.asp?itemyearid=979 If you are going to put "Big Four" liveries on things that weren't, then they are generic. Do any of them "cut it" now? Would you put then next to your brand new RTR model? Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invicta Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 (edited) What were the things called Caledonian. GWR or the Thompsons meant to be? Or the Clerestories? Can somebody identify this diagram of GWR coach? http://www.hornbyguide.com/item_year_details.asp?itemyearid=979 I don't think it was based on anything that ever came out of Swindon- it looks like a GWR-liveried version of Triang's 'Caledonian' coaches. IIRC, I've read somewhere on Rmweb that these are supposed to represent early-1900's CR 'Grampian' stock, and although the sides aren't too bad, everything else on them is pure Triang BR Mk1- they lack the 6-wheel bogies of the prototype, and presumably the length was adjusted a bit to fit the Mk1 chassis & roof... Edited July 21, 2018 by Invicta Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Northmoor Posted July 21, 2018 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted July 21, 2018 I think the wrong chassis 08 is still being knocked out for some sets and dates from 1955) and has a lot of character. Yes there is still an inside framed Harnby 08, but to be fair it's a bit like Caesar's Axe; it's not the same body (compare a Triang one to even a 1980s Hornby one) and certainly not the same chassis, it would have had an XO3(?) fitted originally. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 I don't think it was based on anything that ever came out of Swindon- it looks like a GWR-liveried version of Triang's 'Caledonian' coaches. IIRC, I've read somewhere on Rmweb that these are supposed to represent early-1900's CR 'Grampian' stock, and although the sides aren't too bad, everything else on them is pure Triang BR Mk1- they lack the 6-wheel bogies of the prototype, and presumably the length was adjusted a bit to fit the Mk1 chassis & roof... Yes. They were meant to be the two preserved Caledonian coaches to go with the Single. As the old saying goes, "Close, but no cigar!" http://www.caley.com/corridor.php Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 Yes there is still an inside framed Harnby 08, but to be fair it's a bit like Caesar's Axe; it's not the same body (compare a Triang one to even a 1980s Hornby one) and certainly not the same chassis, it would have had an XO3(?) fitted originally. It was totally revamped in the mid 1970s. It has the same chassis as the newer Jinty, J52, J83 and 2721 Pannier. However I think that it was always envisaged as being aimed more towards the toy market due to it having the uncoupling device. http://www.hornbyguide.com/item_year_details.asp?itemyearid=11 Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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