Brixton Hill tram depot and its Trams

[coline33]

Yes, Stan recalled other incidents like being caught in a blast in Stockwell Road,   I found his diversionary trip via Clapham Junction most interesting - going places no Feltham had ever gone before!!!   His daughter was one of my clients in 1990s looking to buy her last property so we had a good rapport.   I have found that of the 100 production Felthams, 32 were damaged during WW2.   Nine were hit twice and one 2142 thrice.   Damage ranged from broken glass to complete write-off (2109 and 2113).   In the 24.8.1944 incident 2109 was with ex-Walthamstows 2044 and 2051.   It took some days before the Metropolitan Stage Carriage plate for 2109 was found and surrendered but the plates for the other two were never surrendered because they just could not be found (both cars scrapped 10.1944).   The lack of a plate surrender meant correspondence and delay in getting a refund for the unexpired time of the licence.   The annual cost of a licence was 12 shillings!   During the war, the licences were automatically renewed without police inspection of the car.   2109's licence was automatically renewed on 25.8.1944 and its plate surrendered on 30.8.1944 - so hope LPTB got a full refund!!!

[thirty2a]

wow, your knowledge is fantastic Colin, I always enjoy the updates.

Tony

[coline33]

Sorry, there has been nothing further for a month.   However, my modelling time has been taken up with solving part dimensions and shape discrepancies as the restoration of the ABS tram kit collection continues.  

[thirty2a]

no problem Colin, I am currently working on DCC with the Kato unitram..

[coline33]

Are you getting glasses or just stronger ones?   Despite putting on the years and having three St.Petersburg Felthams I have refrained from going up a notch.   If I went down a notch I would never get the detailing done!!!

[thirty2a]

actually need stronger ones I think, recent years have taken their toll on my eyes sadly. 

it is weird working in 3 scales at the moment really messes with your head, especially from O to N !

i'm actually considering a clear out of a couple of things...

 

[coline33]

An update.   The alterations to the BEC and Varney parts to permit interchangeability has produced the need to have more replacement parts as opposed to easy modification to existing Varney parts.   So the commercial aspect has come into play with the financial assessment of what has to be done.   For the moment the project is paused for further thought on cost reduction.   However, that does not mean that I have stopped!!!   There are a number of parts that are suitable to give weight to the Tower E/1 kit by changing the incorrect bulkheads and improving the platform, collision fenders and life guards.   Thus that is where I am continuing so will revert in due course with results.

[wainwright1]

Hi Colin.

 

Glad to see that you are o.k.

 

Did you see my PM on September 27. I thought it might be of interest and possible use.

 

Ray

[coline33]

Time flies but progress is being made.    The view is of white metal parts altered and an addition to a plastic part.   The theme is bulkheads and I will explain row by row from the top.   Items on the left are one side and on the other the reverse view,   1st row is of immediate importance.   It is the bulkhead from BEC kit 11 with the right-angled dash piece removed with the top and side edges straightened to fit the Tower plastic E/1 lower saloon sides.   They are painted and glazed for LTE condition but I have not added the changeover switch.   The 2nd row is the bulkhead from BEC kit 12 with the right-angled stair panel & dash removed.   The sides have been straightened and its purpose is to length the Varney E/3 lower saloon to the correct length.   This will be put aside for a further exercise.   The 3rd row is the Tower E/1 bulkhead showing the use of fine plastic rod to create the three bars protecting the side window.   Just an idea for yourselves.   In the 4th row are the BEC kit 12 LPTB standard windscreen/dash pieces with the removed stair panel & dash pieces affixed now that it appears that it can be cast as one piece in the same manner as that for the Varney E/3.   The 5th and 6th rows are parts from the Varney E/3 for the platform and beneath.   Hopefully the separate collision fender can be moulded in with the platform piece as one.   The moveable step has been retained as seen in the left and right sections.   This too is of immediate importance and if the items in rows 1, 5 & 6 can be reproduced OK then we could have the basis of an accessory kit to replace the poor Tower platform and give some extra weight for traction purposes.   So  keep your fingers crossed that the next stage of assembly goes OK and I can show an ex-Croydon E/1 with the correct windscreens.

 

Now in the research of the bulkhead side windows I find that the existing bulkheads in rows 1 & 2 with their window frames are better than expected.   Whether these are on Classes E, E/1, E/3, HR/1, HR/2 or M, the modeller can easily add a card piece of the correct depth from the top to suit the actual car being modelled.   Also the saloon door window in row 1 is correct for some E and E/1 cars but the majority had the style seen in row 2. 

[coline33]

Just an update as I take a breather from electric trams to W&U steam tram engines whilst waiting for a run of further parts.   Having produced a mock-up of the E/1 lower saloon with new platforms, I am not happy that there is enough clear space for bogie swing when running.   So the mock-up has returned to the body being dismantled to await another pair of platforms to be altered.   In the meantime I return to my Welney vision of what might have been!

[thirty2a]

great work Colin, and as a fellow W&U fan I have been playing with my as yet unnamed layout,  I say playing but basically cut a hole in it to add some operational depth! also the Japanese trams are very demanding ..

[coline33]

For W&U have a look at Lockdown Fen on RMweb.   It is a great looking micro.

[coline33]

Just let let you know that I start the month waiting for a delivery of the glue I use.   Being in still in isolation and now waiting a call from my GP to say the first vaccine dose is ready for me, we depend on deliveries of everything!   Problem has been finding a seller to combine the postage of a very much needed grout pen with my large glue order!!!   I avoid Amazon if I can on ethical grounds!   Up until now I have not had to use glue for my Welney project for which initial track work now down and became operational from a day in usual traffic mode to a day for the height of the fruit season - proved great for the brain!   On the tram kit front painting of small parts continued so as to be ready for the glue.   The priority here is to finally resolve how to proceed with the ABS tram collection of London kits.   I can see an alternate way forward but just have to prove that it is a commercial possibility. 

[Strathwood]

As a follower of this topic I hope both the vaccine and the glue come home soon.

 

Kevin

[thirty2a]

keep up the good work Colin, lets hope for glue and vaccine and end to all this soon..

I have to confess I'm doing no modeling at the moment, bit of guitar or reading, working from home, oh the excitement of it all!

Tony

[coline33]

Whether a Tierful Christmas or a Lockdown one, I hope everyone has the best possible Christmas and that the New Year will see the earliest possible to at least near normality.   I hope to resume with the trams in the New Year, Colin.

[coline33]

Over the festivities, I have drafted an article on the detail differences between the 20 ex-East Ham E/1s in their final conditions in 1952.  This I have done with the release by KW Trams of the former BEC-Kits No.12.   I am not aware of any of these cars being in or even passing Brixton Hill depot but if anyone is interested in this batch then they are welcome to contact me off group.   I have only done this as I had purchased a second-hand completed model and have started upgrading it!   

 

Also started on an article about the Class E cars in LPTB pre-war years.   No one has ever published the fact that their original truck side frames were narrower than those of Class E/1 but the bogies were interchangeable between the classes.   I then found Class E cars with bogies where the truck side frame on one side is E and on the other side E/1!!!   There continues to be many LT tram mysteries to resolve!   Colin.

[thirty2a]

as ever Colin you are a mine of information, and they said London trams all looked the same!

[coline33]

Now to keep the momentum going in lockdown for 2021.   Although neither EH 92 or E 467 are 'Brixton Hill' cars, my immediate work is on EH 92.   I bought the car in running order and could see that it was substantially well constructed with the feel of an EH although not quite No.92!!!   The alterations I have started are just as relevant to detailing any E or E/1 class car.   

 

With the EH model it had K-ray metal destination boxes fitted both ends but the prototype kept its original wooden plain panelled boxes both ends.   Flicks with a screwdriver easily removed both boxes with any damage.   Before I replace them I can drill a hole in the centre of the waist's top beading to take a pigtail.   The red paint used was a little dark for the LT red but the dashes were beautifully lined out and the correct fleet number style used for the 92 so I did not want to change it.   Again the adverts used were not appropriate for this car at any time!   Unfortunately one of the main adverts was of a dark background so I gave it a coat of white paint.   I have only scraped away the small upper end adverts because they did not press down properly.   So I gave one side a coat of the Humbrol 19 Red and as can be seen in the photo the dash colour is acceptable - relief!!!   So  being happy to proceed further I added the three strips that cover the joins in the lower saloon waist panel.   These 1mm. wide strips were cut from gummed label and affixed.   I now have to check if there are any similar strips in the upper saloon waist panel that need to be done.   With these done to all sides and upper deck ends a coat of Red 19 will be applied leaving spaces to which the destination boxes will be positioned once they are prepared.   The small dash adverts will be painted over in black before new correct ones are applied as per the prototype.

 

The mechs on 92 are of the older smaller style BEC ones which I find suit the shorter length of the E class body better than the newer current BEC mechs.   So 92 is getting an upgrade with the recovered ones going into the E class 'float'.

 

E 467 is still in its basic body parts which are being detailed, in similar fashion to EH 92, and painted.   Next to be fashioned are the three black bars for each of the outer windows of the bulkhead parts and then the open fronted platforms can be assembled with the stairs, controllers, and hand brakes not forgetting to add the MSC disc with the conductor's box, spare plough and tool box at the correct places at the correct ends!

 

More to come as I progress, Colin.

 

 

[thirty2a]

nice to see an EH variant 

[coline33]

I have now started feeling the delays in getting parts because the lockdowns have created backlogs of outstanding orders placed last year.   The work on EH 92 will be delayed.   It was fitted with white metal life guards, front and side, and trays.   The trays are in good order but not the guards.   The EHs lost their side guards on coming south side so these have had to be cut free.   The front guards were damaged so as they so firmly fixed they were broken off and the area filed flat to take etched three bar guards.   I have been alerted to a lengthy wait for delivery of my order for these.   I continue to otherwise detail, repaint and overhaul the trucks.

 

In the meantime, I have added CCT E1 384 to the workshop.   This car was built by someone unknown as 384 and purchased by the late Gerald Warner to get his layout going.   Feeling it was not to his standard so did not want to detail it further, I bought it to fill a service 42 schedule slot for a then impending exhibition.   Having dressed for the 42s it did its job for the first day until a junior who we had welcomed to help us decided to ignore the instruction that any car to be removed MUST be held by the trucks NOT the body.   In wanting to help pack away 384 was picked up by body.   The trucks fell to the floor and our junior being startled then dropped the body!!!   I had no time to do a major repair overnight so we were one 42 missing in the sequence in which trams passed through "West Croydon" on the second day.   For the next exhibition its place was taken by a further new model 375.   384 was examined but nothing further was done until now.   It will get new mechs now that I have standardised for Class E/1 and once the Kingsway Models tram advert set arrives - yes it is on its way - the final correction will be made, some tidying up to be done and it will be available for service.

 

More will follow as I have to break for coffee!!!

 

  

[coline33]

Where does all the time go?   It is worse in lockdown.   From coffee to lunch the whole time was taken up with the weekly supermarket delivery order.   Then lunch to afternoon tea with some incoming emails plus a need to get certain items painted so they dry today! 

 

Now to continue.   In taking over all the ex-municipal bogie cars, LPTB adopted LCC protocol aimed at having identical End As and End Bs throughout its increased fleet.   So as a yard stick for the Class E, CCT/EH/LCC/Walthamstow Class E/1 cars I use the following to determine which platform has what items.   You will find that there have been the odd reversals!!!   Going from left to right of the side view of a car -

 

End A platform has a controller, hand brake handle, under the stairs a conductor's box (on most EH cars this was on top of a rheostat cabinet - all other E/1s had grids under the platform) and on the bulkhead the overhead/conduit switch box.   Next comes the bogie upon which the plough carrier had been bolted (but not Walthamstow 2054-2061), followed by the off-centre body mounted plough carrier (2054-2061 had these centrally body mounted) and then the 'plain' bogie.   Finally End B platform with controller, hand brake handle, under the stairs the spare plough on top of the tool box and under the used ticket box the MSC plate/disc.   The stairs on both platforms being the 90 degree direct version.   Note that I have omitted the fuse boxes hidden under the canopies over the platform entrances - one end, that I suspect was A, had two, one red (positive) the other black (negative), and the other end had one black one (negative). 

 

I hopes this helps to give and maintain the correct uniformity between models from these two classes.

[RobJC]

Hi Colin, I think I read somewhere that used ticket boxes only appeared after WW2, by which time all the plough carriers were body mounted.  Is that correct or have I misread it?

 

[coline33]

Rob, used ticket boxes were introduced in the LCC's final years to reduce the rubbish left in the cars.   They were rolled out as a trial on the cars at Hammersmith depot (26/28/30/89) and painted grey.   This continued as a low priority with LPTB extending it to other depots, such as Wandsworth, until the used paper saving drive of the WW2 dictated otherwise.   By 1945 the serviceable fleet had them but not the stored fleet which came in and out of service as circumstances of war had dictated.   As to plough carriers, the LCC had started the changeover to body mounted in the late 1920's but even many of London's post-1925 new 'Class E/1 or similar' bogie cars were delivered with bogie mounted ones.  Once CRD took control of the ex-municipal cars then LCC ways saw slow progress in this change as cars went to Charlton for overhaul.  Following the threat of LPTB 'going into administration', CRD had to make cut-backs from 1936 even the windscreening of cars was scaled back and ridding of non-standard equipment reduced the spares costs.   Remember the abrupt cessation of the Ashfield Rehab scheme, the offering 'for sale' of trams - experimental Felthams, HR/2s and Ilfords.   With the recovery of body mounted carriers from scrapped cars pre-1939, CRD had a good float but shortage there of WW2 labour kept such work to the dire minimum.   That is why one sees photos of East and West Ham cars still with bogie mounted carriers on wartime south London services.  It is safe to say that once CRD got over its wartime backlog of overhauls, by using New Cross and Purley depots as Annexes, then the last bogie mounted carriers disappeared.   The last cars to change in peace-time were the stored Type HF of which three were renovated as CRD staff cars.   I do treat reference to the three styles of ex-West Ham bogie cars, differently to Ian Allan's generic WH coined in 1942, in the same way that LPTB did from 1933!!!

 

I wonder how many London Transport tram modellers in 4mm. scale make cars with bogie mounted carriers?   At least the parts are available!!!  

[thirty2a]

wow, just wow, Colin you are just a total encyclopedia of info on London trams, I have read (and have) many books and half of this info isn't in them I think!

I know what you mean about time flying though, working from home on a laptop and walking the dog, washing and sorting shopping deliveries, day, week month gone!

I have uncovered the depot layout so might get it wired up soon but have a partly dismembered guitar to sort first!