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Brixton Hill tram depot and its Trams


thirty2a
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The big  problem with history writing is using published information in the first place.   Ashfield and Pick were great PR men from the private sector.   Even in Combine days they were under attack from shareholders and in LPTB days from stockholders!   The idea of LPTB was based on the unification of Berlin's transport which went the municipal way not that of the private companies.   Despite the post-war division and reunification of Germany just look at today's BVB and how it is tackling climate change to 2040 in a controlled financial way.   The municipal way is far more transparent as the ratepayers are directly involved and their voting power politically more important than share/stockholders.   Our politicians went the wrong way in 1933 as probably due to the investment in the Underground being so great and its further expansion necessary coupled with the London Pooling with the still private railway companies.   To get some measure of what exactly went on in the 1930's one needs to have seen the LPTB internal memoranda of how departments had to meet the Board's dictates which quite frankly were just rubber stamped by the county representatives.   (Before LPTB these counties held greater power over the Combine activities which Pick resented.)   There was quite a lot of frustration in the ranks and with the unions but Mr. Thomas controlled T&T in a firm but fair way and why his management succeeded in not having the industrial unrest that the Central Bus dept. had.   Fortunately, in the work with which I was involved with the London Tramway History Group, there were a lot of memos and reports that 'came out of the woodwork', were read and noted, and then put back!   Hence there is a lot of detail on the trams that has never been published either because authors were not aware or conveyed their personal views both pro and con.   I just use my notes as background to why I go about showing detail for modellers to use to suit the era they want to portray.   I concentrate on LPTB/LTE because that is the era of my upbringing.   To go back beyond 1933 would bring me into coupled cars, single deck E/1s and front exit E/2s and I don't really want to go there although so very interesting.

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fantastic, I think the history group tomes are much more informative, like I say I have somewhere upwards of 25 books on LT trams alone and most are pictorial volumes really or later days of the system and yes many though not all do have a bias which is fine but not overly helpful there are some reasonable insights.

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Thanks for that very comprehensive reply Colin. Can't remember where I got the idea that ticket boxes were post war but if I come across the source again I'll ignore it....

 

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On 19/01/2021 at 10:16, coline33 said:

I have now started feeling the delays in getting parts because the lockdowns have created backlogs of outstanding orders placed last year.   The work on EH 92 will be delayed.   It was fitted with white metal life guards, front and side, and trays.   The trays are in good order but not the guards.   The EHs lost their side guards on coming south side so these have had to be cut free.   The front guards were damaged so as they so firmly fixed they were broken off and the area filed flat to take etched three bar guards.   I have been alerted to a lengthy wait for delivery of my order for these.   I continue to otherwise detail, repaint and overhaul the trucks.

 

In the meantime, I have added CCT E1 384 to the workshop.   This car was built by someone unknown as 384 and purchased by the late Gerald Warner to get his layout going.   Feeling it was not to his standard so did not want to detail it further, I bought it to fill a service 42 schedule slot for a then impending exhibition.   Having dressed for the 42s it did its job for the first day until a junior who we had welcomed to help us decided to ignore the instruction that any car to be removed MUST be held by the trucks NOT the body.   In wanting to help pack away 384 was picked up by body.   The trucks fell to the floor and our junior being startled then dropped the body!!!   I had no time to do a major repair overnight so we were one 42 missing in the sequence in which trams passed through "West Croydon" on the second day.   For the next exhibition its place was taken by a further new model 375.   384 was examined but nothing further was done until now.   It will get new mechs now that I have standardised for Class E/1 and once the Kingsway Models tram advert set arrives - yes it is on its way - the final correction will be made, some tidying up to be done and it will be available for service.

 

More will follow as I have to break for coffee!!!

 

  

Hello Coline, any chance of some pics of your mechanisms for us new boys in class, please?

 

Thanks,

 

Kevin

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Mechs.   If I repeat anything I have already written here, please forgive me!   I have experienced a number of RTR bogie tram mechs since 1958.   For London bogie cars, KW Trams have reached the best two 4'6" w/b (although one is no longer in production) and one 4' w/b.  So I will start with the top two rows of the attached.   The lower saloon is a Type T and that 'plugs' on to the unit shown with its Brill 22E bogies.   The central dog guard will be affixed to the body not the unit.   For a 'plug' unit with LCC Class 4 bogies there is a picture earlier on in this site.   The rebates in the centre are for clearing the body mounted plough carriers and are of a length that it does not matter if the carrier is off-centre or centred.  The body of EH 92 is shown mid-way to expose the bolsters in the former BEC Nos.11 & 12 kits.   Below this is a pair of the 4'6" w/b mechs currently available which I call the 'silver' version.   Then finally the previous version, no longer available, which I call the 'black' one.   Both pairs are electrically connected to each other so double check that the wires are not crossed over.   One should find that by keeping to the pair as purchased there should be no problem.   The 'silver' mechs are heavier and slightly higher than the 'black' ones.   The height difference can be controlled in the dimensions of a 'plug' unit otherwise one has to accept the slightly higher situation.   The advantage of the higher one is that it gives more space under the platforms for the white metal life guards and trays!   If you have grounding problems when using the 'black' then resort to the etched life guards and trays available.

 

With "West Croydon" a possible for the 2022 season, my Class E have the 'black' version which suits the 4mm. shorter lower saloon and for which I schedule 3 cars in operation and one spare.   My various styles of Class E/1 have the 'silver' mech as 6 cars are scheduled with 2 cars spare.   With at least two Class E/1s going to be switched to non-Croydon services on my "High Road" layout then I have more mechs still to purchase!   Trust the above is a help. 

 

 

Mechs.JPG

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yep, mechs is on the list of things to do, have some Bachy Brills under the Feltham but there is much work to do, wire turned up from Gaugemaster via Amazon so might get something running later if i'm in the mood after work! I do like the look of those mechs though...

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  • 5 weeks later...

Well some progress is being made whilst I await the medical assessment of my hip and swollen leg.   Although I have failed to be stable enough with a soldering iron to marry the pairs of mechs, I am completing the truck side assemblies.   With EH 92 I have been able to prepare the replacement plain panelled wooden boxes for the incorrect K-ray version that it had.   Now gone to the paint stage it will be some days before fitment.   In the attached photo the top line from left to right shows the three stages.

 

Left hand.   Single width three code lamp part.   Note the K-ray version has a curved back to fit the end curves.   Decide on whether required unaltered or file the lamps to form discs or file the lamps off completely.

 

Middle.   Filed smooth to take rain strip.   Found the perfect strip in Slaters assorted strips.   Glued in place right across leaving ends clear. When dry the ends were cut off flush.

 

Right hand.   For the box to fit properly to the curved end.   The upright strips seen at each side are 1mm. square.   Again affix so the leaving the ends clear.   When dry the ends were cut off flush,   The next move is to remove 1mm, from each strip at the bottom of the box to allow the box to fit over the bottom beading of the curved end.

 

I will continue after the paint dries, on dressing the box and its placement.   

 

E 467's inset destination boxes have had to be replaced as spoilt!   The drawing beneath shows the placing of the rain strip over the aperture.

 

 

E1 destination boxes.JPG

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  • 2 weeks later...

Progress with improving my leg is slow but I have been able to progress a couple of areas to move on with EH 92 and CCT 384.   I attach a view of the destination boxes available going from left to right.

 

1.   Basic KW Trams E and E1 2-line box with the 3-codes lamps in original position.

2.   Same part with the lamps filed down to discs.

3.   Same part with the lamps completely removed and the finest of Slater's Assorted Strip affixed.   Painted and with destination in        place.

4.   Basic KW Trams metal K-ray 2-line box unmodified, painted and with destination in place.

5.   BEC-Models (Frank Vescoe) 3-line box. 

E E1 destination boxes.JPG

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Now to the second area.   The replacement mechs for the two cars using KW Trams current LCC m/t units.   Herewith the truck sides painted and fixing points cleaned out.   Note the current mechs (silver top) are slightly higher than the previous version (black top) but do allow more room under the platforms for the life guards and trays.   If you have the black ones then these do fit the 4mm, shorter lower saloon overall length better.   Note not for 2054-2061!    

 

E E1 trucksides.JPG

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  • 1 month later...

Well, I have decided to cease scratch and kit building of tram and rail items.   I have taken the decision as if I do get back to full health. my concentration and interest will not return.   Thus, RTR will continue to see me with rail aspects only.   In 00, "Welney Depot" layout based on an extension of the Wisbech & Upwell as operated in the BR era.   In 009, "East Quay" based on a completely rebuilt Rye & Camber primarily as an industrial line serving  a new ship terminal at the mouth of the River Rother with passenger services on sunny days!

 

I wish very one success in developing tram models and regret having to cease my thread without completion which was not far off.  

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I'm sorry to hear that Colin, it has been so interesting to follow but I fully understand. 

good luck with other projects though, look forward to following them.

keep in touch

Tony

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  • 5 months later...

so nothing to report as yet but...

having recently taken up Ray's offer to visit Southwark MRC and been promised some modelling room don't be surprised (or do!) that some progress my happen soon..

tony

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Thanks, Tony, for the update on your activity.   I am afraid a 7 week spell in hospital depressed me so much that I decided to cease modelling altogether.   My under construction London conduit cars were disposed to Bridge Street project where the 'gang' are finishing them for that exhibition layout.   Some of my assembled BEC Feltham bodies plus an ABS LCC instruction car being used when it made its first renovated appearance at the Sky Museum, Southampton, last weekend.   I returned home to continue my infection draining and with an unexpected find of access to a box of RTR H0m cars, a box of 12mm gauge track work a box of OHLE items plus three unused lightweight boards, I have now a 2-rail operational line with the overhead to be worked upon.   That is enough to keep me active on what my consultant says will be a long haul.   Whilst my ability to walk has been saved alas I still cannot raise the left leg to operate the car's pedals but that is the goal that I am working too.   All the best, Colin.

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nice to hear from you Colin,

sorry to hear you have been so poorly mate. 

as for modelling I have not really been in the mood for it lately though recent events have revitalised me so watch this space.. 

do feel free to drop in from time to time if you want to add any insight, we miss you here at the depot.

Tony

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Hi Colin.

 

Sorry to hear about your health problems. I knew that you had not been well, but did not realise that it was that bad. I hope that you can continue with a little modelling to keep your spirits up.

As Tony confirmed, he has visited us a couple of times and may be joining us, so you might see some developments on Brixton Hill before too long.

 

You never know, you might be able to visit our club at some time in the future, but the climb up to the gallery might prevent that, certainly at the present time.

 

All the best and take care.

Ray

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Thanks, Ray.   I am OK on stairs - I passed the tests in hospital and of course our stairs at home present no problem.   I shall not be happy until I feel safe to drive the car!   Being house-bound I can only get places if I use the ambulance service or one of my daughters does a 100 mile round trip to drive me and Ann in our car - I can get in the front passenger seat.   All the best, Colin.

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10 hours ago, coline33 said:

Thanks, Ray.   I am OK on stairs - I passed the tests in hospital and of course our stairs at home present no problem.   I shall not be happy until I feel safe to drive the car!   Being house-bound I can only get places if I use the ambulance service or one of my daughters does a 100 mile round trip to drive me and Ann in our car - I can get in the front passenger seat.   All the best, Colin.

I am sorry to hear you have been so poorly, you are the rock that holds up this trams and tramway modelling section of RMweb.  I am always in awe of your knowledge of London trams both ancient and modern.  Please look after yourself.

 

Andy

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I will have many questions soon Colin, manly about the interior of the pits particularly the look of the shielding around the conduit.. 

as far as I can tell looking at many pictures there appears to be brackets holding up wooden planking but for obvious reasons there are not so many clear pictures, so hope you may have some insight on that one. 

I have acquired some threaded rod for the traverser so that project may get under way soon.

Tony

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  • 5 weeks later...

..now what would be very helpful is a color view inside a depot preferably with the Traverser in view!

now I recall some color views of Penhall road tramatorium with a view of a Feltham behind a pile of scrap with the traverser in view but of course that is the only view I cannot find so must have imagine it. I know the traverser was shallow type but any color would be helpful.

I imagine the main brickwork would be cream and or Red, traverser pit white maybe? inspection pits dirt plain red brick or white. the traverser possibly green or grey? black as a last resort. 

looking to mock up a traverser this weekend as want to do some work on the pit next week at the club ...

 

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21 minutes ago, thirty2a said:

..now what would be very helpful is a color view inside a depot preferably with the Traverser in view!

now I recall some color views of Penhall road tramatorium with a view of a Feltham behind a pile of scrap with the traverser in view but of course that is the only view I cannot find so must have imagine it. I know the traverser was shallow type but any color would be helpful.

I imagine the main brickwork would be cream and or Red, traverser pit white maybe? inspection pits dirt plain red brick or white. the traverser possibly green or grey? black as a last resort. 

looking to mock up a traverser this weekend as want to do some work on the pit next week at the club ...

 

Hmm - Is there a Colin out there. The font of all tram knowledge ?

 

See you at the club next week.

 

All the best

Ray

Edited by wainwright1
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