Brixton Hill tram depot and its Trams

[coline33]

Tony, your memory is faultless!!!   Fortunately, the last ex-MET 2079 survived to the end of Streatham/Brixton Hill in April 1951and by then colour cameras picked up the last days of the first generation.   By then all but one of the ex-MET Felthams had gone to Leeds and their ranks at Penhall were filled with the last of the ex-LUT ones.   Hence 2079 went to a part of Penhall that no Feltham had gone before - to keep it separate for rapid collection as the ex-MET cars were the Leeds preference or should I say Vic Matterface's!   Lucky someone realised the importance of 2079 being there and took the attached two photos.   Yes, the Penhall traverser was in a very low pit unlike the LCC ones - remember London's transport authorities since 1933 have maintained the General bus tradition of being broke!   Colin.

[coline33]

Sorry Tony, it is not in colour but attached is best close up I have of Telford Avenue's traverser.   Colin.

[thirty2a]

Thanks Colin, spot on that's the exact picture I had in mind! So no excuse now I guess.. Plasticard, balsa and glue here we go. Looks like hand/guard rails are white and general equipment is grey\green so controllers black body and brass top same as trams..

 

Edited November 18, 2021 by thirty2a

[thirty2a]

On 15/02/2019 at 08:15, coline33 said:

Thanks, RB, for alerting me to your post.   In the website refurbishment, this blog unfortunately got lost as I rebuilt my past saved forums.   

 

Firstly, although Fairfield Halls will return in a new guise, there will no longer be any TLRS Festival of Model Tramways that annually used to alternate between London and Manchester.   The reason is that today there are far more local shows that include trams compared with a decade ago plus the age of the organisers has also increased!!!   But probably more off putting is the cost of the venues even if younger people came to the fore.   Both the Croydon and Manchester venues were ideal sites for their location to today's UK tramways.

 

As you mention the Queens Road site exists and LPTB did combine their use of Leo Street and another premise into their Bowles Road 'works' facility.   As to "Rotherhithe New Road" depot the boards are in store with little more than basic track work plus some shops, the tram fleet also safely stowed in a warm place!   Other of my interests have developed requiring attention since last summer together with the other problems that life brings.   Now my location in the New Road was just before Canal Bridge was reached but there was no connection to Old Kent Road.   It was in the V of that road junction just before reaching OKR.   Service 90 was to be the timetable of the museum route to Surrey Quays station where in the days of Surrey Docks station there was a crossover for any short working 68/70.    My depot would have been the direct replacement by the LCC of their Evelyn Street trailer tram depot with conduit tracks provided so it could be an annex both to CRD and New Cross depot.   At present there is little prospect of progress on the boards.

 

Please do not let this lack of my activity put you off.   If you want to take over the title of "Rotherhithe New Road" or plain "Rotherhithe New" in the manner we used to call Streatham depot "Telford Avenue" or just plain "Telford", please do so and keep me informed.   All the best, Colin.

 

 

Spent the day 're reading all the posts ( I was working guv, honest) still have a few pages to go through.. However going back to the early days I'm tempted to 're look at the RnR option if that's still ok, I ordered some self adhesive numbers off fleeplay so don't be surprised if you start seeing Felthams with route 90 and depot appearing soon ... 

 

[thirty2a]

First ruff back of an envelope version 

[coline33]

Tony, when I get back from my today at Mayday hospital, I will look up to see if there are any clearer photos of standard LCC traversers.   Colin.

[thirty2a]

thanks Colin, I'm sure you know it's called Croydon university hospital now due to the unfortunate nickname it had :-) 

back to the traverser, I think I have had a plan so cunning I can pin a tail on it and call it a weasel, watch this space. I had a flick through a few books last night and found some interesting shots particular on page 109 of 'London Trams' by John Reed. 

 

[wainwright1]

Tony.

You might have a look at Gary's turntable on Crystal Palace. Basically he used a piece of copper clad for the top of the bridge and soldered the rails to it. If you scored down the middle through the copper it would isolate the two sides and you can then lay the surface up to track top level on that. Have a look at perhaps N gauge plate bridge sides for forming the frames. These could be glued securely to the under side of the copper clad using Araldite making a nice strong framework for the traverser. Obviously you can plan your operating mechanism around that, installing a threaded bush under the bridge for the threaded rod to run through and some kind of guides to keep everything smooth and level down in the pit.

Stanchions for the handrails are available from model boat suppliers and piano wire could be used for the handrails. Nice and strong and will not bend. 

 

All the best

Ray

[thirty2a]

cheers Ray,

certainly some ideas to think about..

Tony 

[thirty2a]

A few LT pics from Acton open day in 2014

[thirty2a]

 

 

some nice footage on here, familiar to some I'm sure.

[coline33]

Tony, to us old locals it will always be Mayday.   The first hospital I ever had to go to was Croydon General.   The tram that took me stopped right outside the A&E door which was straight on to the street.   My next A&E event took me to Mayday where I had to walk up Mayday Road from the bus.   Today I have a direct bus from the end of my road to outside Croydon University Hospital.   My wife would not use it with her free pass to see me when I was an inpatient recently.   No not because of Covid but how dangerous that area, where she was brought up two roads away, has become.   On one of her visits she passed the police dealing with a stabbing and today my transport had to divert into congested roads because of a fatal stabbing in London Road.

 

I attach views of both types of LCC traverser - shallow for overhead and deep for conduit.   The first is the shallow one at Norwood and the last the deep one at Camberwell.   In both stands my learned guru of London trams.   Richard Elliott was LT's last Technical Assistant (Trams) at Charlton CRD and is very greatly missed.   Colin.

[thirty2a]

Perfect thanks Colin, plenty to work with now. 
yes I saw that there had been a stabbing outside West Croydon today sadly. I was saying today that it was no different when I was a teen back in the day, Croydon has always had a reputation, not sure when my pop was a lad though, must ask him, he is a Croydonian, grew up on Pemdevon road.

 I had a few years in a high rise in the Wallington  area on a well known estate. Before we moved which was notorious back in the ‘80s.

hope you are ok mate, thanks again for the pics.

Tony

Edited November 19, 2021 by thirty2a

[wainwright1]

3 hours ago, coline33 said:

Tony, to us old locals it will always be Mayday.   The first hospital I ever had to go to was Croydon General.   The tram that took me stopped right outside the A&E door which was straight on to the street.   My next A&E event took me to Mayday where I had to walk up Mayday Road from the bus.   Today I have a direct bus from the end of my road to outside Croydon University Hospital.   My wife would not use it with her free pass to see me when I was an inpatient recently.   No not because of Covid but how dangerous that area, where she was brought up two roads away, has become.   On one of her visits she passed the police dealing with a stabbing and today my transport had to divert into congested roads because of a fatal stabbing in London Road.

 

I attach views of both types of LCC traverser - shallow for overhead and deep for conduit.   The first is the shallow one at Norwood and the last the deep one at Camberwell.   In both stands my learned guru of London trams.   Richard Elliott was LT's last Technical Assistant (Trams) at Charlton CRD and is very greatly missed.   Colin.

Good shots of the framework there. Just thinking what you could use to make that. Possibly solder it up from brass strip and use some Scalelink rivet strip for the vertical bits. The section at the end obviously contains carrying wheels, probably quite small, maybe N Gauge. Not sure how you will hide the threaded road unless it was hidden under the floor in the middle with perhaps just a rod attached to the threaded bush under the bridge running in a slot along the pit.

 

All the best

Ray

[wainwright1]

7 hours ago, thirty2a said:

A few LT pics from Acton open day in 2014

Nice view of the Feltham there.

Not sure of the ownership status of that as it was privately purchased by I think three people: Peter Atkinson, Len Field and another and I believe that it was given to the LT Museum on long term loan. I knew Peter and we used to go up to the museum and let people have a go at driving it as it was mounted up on blocks. Len was the treasurer of our bus group 1702 Bus Preservation Society and we lost him last year from Covid related illness. I do not think that tram is still mounted on blocks.

 

All the best

Ray

[thirty2a]

It wasn't last time I saw it but what an experience that would be now!

Edited November 19, 2021 by thirty2a

[coline33]

10 hours ago, wainwright1 said:

Nice view of the Feltham there.

Not sure of the ownership status of that as it was privately purchased by I think three people: Peter Atkinson, Len Field and another and I believe that it was given to the LT Museum on long term loan. I knew Peter and we used to go up to the museum and let people have a go at driving it as it was mounted up on blocks. Len was the treasurer of our bus group 1702 Bus Preservation Society and we lost him last year from Covid related illness. I do not think that tram is still mounted on blocks.

 

All the best

Ray

Yes, Ray, those three formed the "Feltham Fund" in my days of being on the Tramways Sub-Committee of BTC Clapham Museum and they were only too pleased to have the power provided on Open Days to charge a tanner a time to drive "2099" as it will only be to me.   Sometimes the air compressor was run so as to use the front-exit doors which my then 3 and 4 year daughter loved to open the moment I removed the interlock.   I lost faith in LTM when English Heritage took over and my Director friend left in disgust at their plans.   We both recognised 2099 as the link between both generations of tram in London.   Colin.

[wainwright1]

3 hours ago, coline33 said:

Yes, Ray, those three formed the "Feltham Fund" in my days of being on the Tramways Sub-Committee of BTC Clapham Museum and they were only too pleased to have the power provided on Open Days to charge a tanner a time to drive "2099" as it will only be to me.   Sometimes the air compressor was run so as to use the front-exit doors which my then 3 and 4 year daughter loved to open the moment I removed the interlock.   I lost faith in LTM when English Heritage took over and my Director friend left in disgust at their plans.   We both recognised 2099 as the link between both generations of tram in London.   Colin.

Hi Colin.

 

Got a bit ahead of myself there. We only lost Len Field this year. I knew him for nearly forty years.

Peter was like an associate member of the bus group and got involved in some of its activities.

 

All the best

 

Ray

Edited November 20, 2021 by wainwright1

[thirty2a]

Found a great shot of an E class broadside on Clapham depots traverser, plate 29 in South London Trams 1903-1933 

Further to this there appears to be at least 3 variations of deep traverser over the years.

Edited November 20, 2021 by thirty2a

[coline33]

Tony, you will probably find a lot more traversers in the 1903 to 1933 period in most London tram books.   I only do 1933 to 1952!!!   Colin.

[thirty2a]

Yes Colin, it looks like the LCC traverser was a more simple design.

the later cross brace design appears to have either 2 or 4 cross bracing in the middle sections…

Tony 

[thirty2a]

Top view, double traversers  at New Cross.

bottom view, Clapham 

[dasatcopthorne]

Colin old friend.

 

I've just caught up with this thread after quite some months. Sorry to hear you have been unwell Colin and hope you are getting better.

 

I see 00 LT Trams modelling is continuing with others on here.

 

I haven't touched my Trams for years except for a quick look a year ago.

 

I would like to pass them onto someone who would continue their development and make use of them.

 

Is there someone you would suggest please?

 

Dave Smith

 

 

 

 

[coline33]

Great to hear from you, Dave.   I continue to 'drain out' an infection in my upper left leg and within my replacement hip - fortunately at home now!   I am under regular review and look forward to driving again soon.

 

Now from what I can recall from many decades you too had principally LTE cars that were conduit fitted.   Recently those cars still under construction I gave to the T&LRS Bridge Street layout which is under renovation including a Faller working roadway and appeared at the recent Sky Museum exhibition at Southampton.   The Bridge Street boys are only too grateful for RTR or cars under construction that are not wanted.   At least a couple of my unfinished BEC Felthams were run at Sky and my unfinished passenger and works cars are now spread around the 'gang'.   So Terry would be pleased to find homes.   The "West Croydon" layout is also being renovated at its new home in Ashford, Kent.   John Clarke has hardly any first generation trams to run as he relied on my fleet but I do not know whether I will be able to drive again even to get to his new area for shows.   

 

If you would like me to enquire of both, please sent a list of cars and their condition to <feltham2099@hotmail.co.uk> and I will proceed from there for you.   If you have any pictures please attach them.

 

Trust you are keeping well?   All the best, Colin.

[thirty2a]

glad you too are catching up, I think my dad would remember you both as he was an old member of the Carshalton and Sutton MRC as was I for a short while back in the day..

Tony