Brixton Hill tram depot and its Trams

[thirty2a]

Colin when I dig the felthams out I will show you but basically I chopped a brill chassis up and cut it into the feltham chassis not pretty or smart but effective enough 

[coline33]

That fine, Tony, I now know exactly the concept.   I was tempted to do likewise when I got the OOC Cissie but my necessity to have conduit fitted cars prevented me from testing when stripping down a Brill to make a H0 continental car - yes I have a fleet of those as well as some American RTR trams!!!   One day I even find the time and space to finish my H0 and H0m tram layouts!!!   Colin.

[thirty2a]

Don’t be surprised if the odd articulated tram ends up in the depot ! ...

[wainwright1]

Hi All.

Just a couple of points.

I do not think that cobble stones would have been present on a lot of roads as they would have been smoothed and surfaced with tarmac. However, would there still have been 'Tarry blocks' visible directly next to the running rails ? They would be much easier to model than cobbling the whole street.

I believe that the manufacturer of the Black Beetle motor bogies has retired and that production had therefore ceased, similar to the situation with Mashima motors. Branchlines may still have some in stock, but will not be able to re-stock them. I think that Roxey Mouldings also stock/stocked them.

Did I see mention of cutting and shutting a proprietary mechanism to provide a powered chassis for a tram.  I had another look through, but could not find the reference.

I have looked through the KW Tram site and there is plenty of scope on there for all aspects of tram modelling.

I do not think that KW make the former Tower plastic tram kits, but cannot find the name of the current manufacturer. I have been on their website before, but cannot find it at the moment.

 

All the best

 

Ray

 

[coline33]

Ray, to sort out some confusion over BEC-Kits.   When Frank finally retired and BEC Models ended, the white metal kits were divided.   The British outline BEC and BEC/ABS} went to Adrian Swain and the continentals went to Brian Robinson.   Adrian commenced ABS Models as his trading name whilst Brian took over the name of BEC-Kits.   Brian's website is <bec-kits.co.uk> and still functions and his latest advert confirms "reduced service until July 2020 whilst away teaching and tram riding in Prague".   David Boyle of Tower Models introduced his range of plastic kits under the name of Tower.   When David decided to concentrate on O-gauge, he sold the tram kit side to Brian.   Now the transfer of the ABS tram business to KW Trams comprises ABS (tram and road vehicles but not buses), BEC-Kits (British), BEC/ABS, Anbrico, MTS and Varney.   When Adrian's health prevented him attending exhibitions KW Trams came to his aid in advertising and selling on Adrian's behalf.   You will be pleased to know that the ABS London Mercury tower wagon in the RoadScene series has gone to KW Trams!   The best London tram transfer sheets (pre WW2) are to be found on Brian's website - Peter Clapham reproduced them from the data I gave him for David Boyle.   Colin.

[thirty2a]

Looking at many pictures from the period in London would suggest the sets were in the streets at least until the tracks were ripped up in particular on conduit tracks 

[wainwright1]

Thanks for that Colin.

 

I saw the Mercury Tower Wagon on there and the STL open topped converted tree lopper. Fortunately, I already have one of each of those in stock, as they used to be available through the Model Bus Federation Shop until a few years ago.

Is somebody taking over the whitemetal bus kits. They seem to be in a bit of a twilight zone these days with the large range of resin kits being produced.

We must not forget Pirate Models who produced quite a range of bus kits and also some underground tube stock kits quite a few years ago.

A range which I would particularly like to see again are the railway wagon kits that Danny Pinnock made (D & S range), they were very good.

I think that this is giving Tony plenty of food for thought.

 

All the best and stay well.

 

Ray

 

[Andy Reichert]

Hollywood Foundry (tram mechs maker) has recently closed down due to retirement. I have no information about Black Beetles which are an entirely separate outfit.

 

Andy

[wagonbasher]

Not my scale, not my gauge but thevBlack beetle range appears to be available from 'motor bogies'

 

thevwebsite has current references

 

dont know anymore

 

Andy

[thirty2a]

I'm loving the info guys. Found some pics of first London layout long gone 

[coline33]

Tony, can I have your permission to copy these views of your earlier line as I do maintain a pictorial record of London tram layouts in 4mm. scale, please?   Do you have any more, please?   It provides a selection of pictures for use in the T&LRS National Model Tram Collection currently housed on the Heaton Park Tramway in Manchester.   I would need full name, etc., to go with them so please contact me direct.

 

Ray, one hopes the MBF may be a possibility for the buses then of course there is the rail.   I did not mention the tree lopper as London trams, with few exceptions like the Embankment, ran in the middle of the road!!!   John Howe of Kingsway is the only one who I know has modelled the Embankment at Waterloo Bridge for the Subway.   I had drawn up a circular layout so to model the section between Waterloo and Charing Cross bridges as this section is very nostalgic to me.   My mother left me there with a packed lunch when she had to work in central London during my primary school holidays.   Little did I know that I was later going to be responsible for the river accommodations on that Thames reach to the extent that I had to battle with my boss to get PLA approval to moor London's first floating restaurant at Charing Cross!!!   It was a good place to watch the trams, trains and boats.   Agree with your comment on D&S who if my memory serves me right, produced the etched Wisbech & Upwell passenger stock which is now sorely missed with the release of the Model Rail J70s.

[thirty2a]

Thanks Colin will message you and yes there are almost complete build pics not great quality though.

you are correct re w&u coaches sadly I only model it in O gauge these days and no one does J70 but have 3 Y6’s and a sentinel so can’t complain to much!

[wainwright1]

Colin.

 

I had a nice chat with Danny Pinnock last year and he still does some of the etched kits occasionally. I managed to get three of the London Chatham and Dover 6 wheeled coaches, so I can now complete the three sets of coaches that I need for my Hawkhurst layout. He also still does the 7mm kits in small quantities. He may still have some etchings for the Wisbech and Upwell tramway loco and coaches available in 4mm and 7mm..

 

I do not think that the MBF would take on the manufacture of the bus kits. Their shop(s) were run by a couple of old boys who are gradually retiring and the range of kits and parts they sell is shrinking. Although they would probably like to sell the kits and parts again if someone else takes them on.

 

I will float the idea about the rail kits to see if there is any interest in them.

 

All the best

 

Ray

[thirty2a]

So just had a moment of clarity.. wheeled ladder/contraption for tram cleaning discovered in many depot pics which also explains grooves in depot floor ! I know late to spot but getting there ..

[coline33]

I must admit that I cannot recall BH having them as it was built only for open top trailer cars.   Telford provided the towing cars although it was to become an annex to Telford Avenue (especially after transfer in of the Felthams) as well as a scrap-yard and store.   Certainly all ex-LCC mainstream electric depots had them so do not worry about BH.

[thirty2a]

Well as my depot is now a sort of hybrid I will need some me thinks, might make an interesting model ...

[thirty2a]

A few more old ones

[coline33]

Pictures of completed Tower Felthams always causes me to flitch!   Having produced for David Boyle the correct drawings in 4mm. scale from drawings loaned by LT, I see the imperfections that occurred in the mould making process that became too expensive for him at that stage to have corrected.   Fortunately when I heard through ModelZone that OOC were going to produce their version based on making up a Tower kit they relayed my criticism and the headlamp was correctly positioned and the curvature of the lower waist skirts was corrected.   Then the only fault in the original run of OOC Felthams was the false step marking appearing at the bottom of the front-exit door!   A word via ModelZone saw the retool for a flush door but this modification was only applied to the MET Feltham before cessation of production.   So if you are buying an Atlas Feltham, which used the same moulds, just check that the front-exit door is completely flush to the bottom!  

[coline33]

Sorry, I missed out that the original OOC Felthams had the trolley poles hooked to the side but the MET one was corrected to be hooked at the centre.

[thirty2a]

Thanks for the info, got to love the felthams the middle one is my (much) altered test and original. It was even dcc for a while. 
as for the tower one in the pics, I think it will appear on the scrap road at some point it’s not complete anymore 

[coline33]

Sunderland 100 just needs the truck sides.   After all its prototype was built 6 years before the first North American PCC car hit the New York streets with those inside bearing looking trucks which first saw the UK light of day in post WW2 Blackpool.   The mechs under the LPTB 2104 would be ideal if you made the body of Blossom 2166 (as per mine attached which has to lose the vent panel by the stair window) and mounted it on them.   Blossom was finally towed all the way from Manor House change-pit, through the Kingsway Subway to Charlton CRD via Kennington, Camberwell and New Cross.   Yes, the GM T&T in 1936 had no intention of scrapping it when he was instructed to dispose of all non-standard trams.   Alas the cost of mounting it on Bluebell 2255's trucks killed the attempt.   Had it been me I would have left it as it was and fitted a plough carrier and sent it to Streatham knowing that the number of depot tracks it could only use there for maintenance was very limited because the overall length between outer wheel sets was just longer than the traversers there could take.   Being an air braked four motor it could have joined Bluebird, also an air braked four motor, which would have given greater use of the four drivers who had to be specially trained and licensed to drive four motored cars.   However, I would have stabled it in BH with it only to Telford Avenue for routine maintenance.    

[thirty2a]

I thought the centre entrance prohibited plough carriers though?

[thirty2a]

I really only picked the Sunderland one up for its motor bit of a bargain, that and tower wagon £50! But I have got fond of it so might get a re paint and some new trucks ...

[thirty2a]

Plenty of room 

[thirty2a]

Work has begun ..