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ianLMS

Falcon Brass kit - LMS Horsebox Dia 1956

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So, after a bit of head scratching, I think I managed to fathom out the handbrake/brake rodding and fitted the bits that go under the chassis. Not in exactly the correct locations, but suitable for the purposes of this effortand not that noticeable once its on the tracks. Excuse the poor soldering. This was my first attempt at soldering white metal, and after obliterating one of the tank brackets, I now know I need to be super careful and super quick until I get me a temp controlled soldering iron.

 

This is the one I have my eye on!! https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00T0M9XWK/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?smid=A1WAFUU4LK95FT&psc=1

 

Here are a couple of pics of progress so far.

 

 

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I'm going to throw a spanner in the works.  Your brake linkage stocks down too far (does it not foul pointwork?)

 

The linkage on the cross rod should pivot in the middle, on the rod.  The pull rods to the brakes should go from each end of it, one just below the floor (usually out of sight) and one lower down and almost horizontal.  You need to arrange it such that pushing the brake lever down on the side without the Morton clutch pulls the rods towards the middle of the vehicle.

 

Predictably I can't find a diagram to post now, but I'm sure someone will have one.  Bear in mind that these are clasp brakes, not push ones, so you're pulling, not pushing the brake actuating rods.

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I'm going to throw a spanner in the works.  Your brake linkage stocks down too far (does it not foul pointwork?)

 

The linkage on the cross rod should pivot in the middle, on the rod.  The pull rods to the brakes should go from each end of it, one just below the floor (usually out of sight) and one lower down and almost horizontal.  You need to arrange it such that pushing the brake lever down on the side without the Morton clutch pulls the rods towards the middle of the vehicle.

 

Predictably I can't find a diagram to post now, but I'm sure someone will have one.  Bear in mind that these are clasp brakes, not push ones, so you're pulling, not pushing the brake actuating rods.

Thank you - the part in the packet which I can only assume was for this only had a hole one end which pushed them down too far. They dont snag the pointwork, but I can easily shorten it to raise them up. In the end I will probably fabricate a new linkage from brass or styrene that will look better.

Edited by ianLMS

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I'm going to throw a spanner in the works.  Your brake linkage stocks down too far (does it not foul pointwork?)

 

The linkage on the cross rod should pivot in the middle, on the rod.  The pull rods to the brakes should go from each end of it, one just below the floor (usually out of sight) and one lower down and almost horizontal.  You need to arrange it such that pushing the brake lever down on the side without the Morton clutch pulls the rods towards the middle of the vehicle.

 

Predictably I can't find a diagram to post now, but I'm sure someone will have one.  Bear in mind that these are clasp brakes, not push ones, so you're pulling, not pushing the brake actuating rods.

Changes made - still noit perfect, but a lot better. Fabricated the linkage from the scrap brass sprue and re-soldered the rods etc. Also added the hinges/straps on one side. Not happy with the ones that drop below the solebar - they look nothing like the prototype, but its the part number the diagram is telling me to use, so I will go with it for now.

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post-21193-0-44728700-1523952551_thumb.jpg

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Looks much better.  I'm going to keep nitpicking - the angle of the centre piece should be a bit more 2 o'clock to 7 o'clock (needs to rotate clockwise in your photo above) and the pull rods went closer to the horizontal (the right hand one would go under the cross rod between the shoes) but you've got the essence of it there.

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Thank you - back to decorating tonight so might be a while before I can fix it though!!!

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The brake centre-crank as modelled shows the brakes in the on position. Since the details are easier to see when the van is stopped, this is a reasonable choice. It would still be good to put the pull-rods horizontal, though.

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Thanks Guy. I attached the pull rods to the chassis by simply soldering the end of the rod to the floor just above each axle. How/where would they normally be attached to enable them to reach the horizontal position?

Edited by ianLMS

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There's a system of cranks and levers behind the wheels to allow the pull rod to move the shoes towards each other.

 

I usually solder them to the cross bars or just leave them disappearing behind the wheels and hanging in midair.

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There's a system of cranks and levers behind the wheels to allow the pull rod to move the shoes towards each other.

 

I usually solder them to the cross bars or just leave them disappearing behind the wheels and hanging in midair.

Perfect - thats what I will do. Over or under the bars when the horsebox is the correct way up that is?

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Upper one vanishing behind the wheels and stopping in midair, lower one usually soldered to the crossbar.

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Ian,

 

that's good work and far further than I have ever got with either of the two Jidenco kits (which became Falcon) that I started.

 

Like Dave (C P Bacon) I have a 50W Antex. Whichever unit you go for, I would recommend an "established" brand such as Weller, Antex, Xytronic, Atten, Ersa, Hakko, etc. available through Radiospares, Rapid Online, Dancap (Hakko) and other supplies to  industry. The benefit is that spare elements, tips and spares are more likely to continue to be readily available.

 

Jol

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that's good work and far further than I have ever got with either of the two Jidenco kits (which became Falcon) that I started.

 

Like Dave (C P Bacon) I have a 50W Antex. Whichever unit you go for, I would recommend an "established" brand such as Weller, Antex, Xytronic, Atten, Ersa, Hakko, etc... 

 

 

I'd echo that advice - I've got a similar Antex which I managed to pick up many years ago, and not too expensively in a Maplin sale. They are normally quite pricey but a quality brand will be an investment - my Antex must be at least 15 years old, so overall that means, even if I'd paid full price it would have only cost me about 20p a week. 

 

You could try a cheaper one if you really can't afford one of the higher end brands -  Maplin have this one for about £42 in their closing down sale - it looks a bit 'no-name' so you might be lucky with it, you might not. Fairly similar specification I think to the one you saw on Farnell though. 

 

https://www.maplin.co.uk/p/48w-mains-solder-station-n34fb

Edited by sharris

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I must admit I do like the Jidenco/Falcon Brassworks kits and it is good to see that Dart Castings have taken them on. Whilst I agree with many of the comments above ( especially about the solebars), their website does say they are in the domain of experienced modellers. To me the effect, especially on earlier wagons is much finer and more pleasing than any of the "cast" wagons, be they in plastic or the rather crude white metal ones.

As to the chassis, I have found the best way is the use the MJT W irons with one fixed and one rocking.

This diagram was one of the gas lit series. The early ones would have had full lining but the later batches were turned out in plain crimson and by 1939, even the early ones were most likely be in plain crimson without lining. It is also often stated that it was not unusual in the later years for the non passenger coaching stock to be turned out with the varnish applied directly over the undercoat giving a "brownish" appearance. Though if the horseboxes were run in passenger trains, I suspect this was less likely than some of the other vans such as the fish ones which would be more likely run in express fitted freights.

I do have some pics and other details but for copyright reasons cannot post them here. If you would like them please message me and I could email them.

 

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... the Jidenco/Falcon Brassworks kits and it is good to see that Dart Castings have taken them on.

 

 

Unfortunately not!

 

The person who has taken them on has, I believe, family or marital associations with MJT etc., but the latter apparently have no business interests in Falcon Brassworks.

 

There has been a lot of negative feedback concerning FB; principally relating to poor / non-existent communications and extended delays in delivery of goods that have been paid for. I have, until recently, been strongly defensive of FB, as the proprietor has exceptional family pressures which affect her ability to conduct business.

 

Unfortunately though, I have now had to join the nay-sayers.

 

In a misguided attempt to support a trader who had received bad publicity, I ordered and paid for two different kits well before Christmas. One was delivered promptly, together with a note stating that there would be a short delay in re-ordering the other item ordered.

 

After some weeks, a second example of the first kit was delivered, which I promptly returned at my own expense. Since then, repeated requests for the correct second kit - or at least an acknowledgement of receipt of the returned item - have been met with a wall of total silence.

 

I can no longer defend a trader who simply ignores her customers for indefinite periods, and I have requested the correct kit or a refund within four weeks - I'm not holding my breath!

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

Edited by cctransuk

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Jidenco/Falcon Brass kits have generally been regarded as "scratch builders aids". They were apparently originally designed for the brand owner by a graphic artist with no modelling experience and presumably not test built but put straight into production. They usually suffer from the same design errors such as inadequate width fold lines, no allowance for end/side fold clearance, etc. They may also suffer from dimensional inaccuracies to the prototype as did the two I started but never finished. The kits regularly appear on ebay and there were Jidenco kits on one traders stand at ScaleFour North last weekend and examples of both labels on the Bring and Buy.

 

However, there are those who do assemble them successfully and don't find the "defects" an issue. I imagine that if you know what to expect, how to deal with it and at what stage in the build process, then they can provide the basis for some models not available elsewhere. The website is still live and rolling stock kits or etches only for locos are listed as available . However, as John Isherwood points out, availability or communication is not assured.

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It's only the wagon kits listed now. The etches disappeared the day the last thread was locked.

 

 

 

 

 

Jason

 

Jason,

 

I had another look and it seems we are both right, the loco etches are still listed (and priced) but shown as "Not Currently Available".

 

​Jol

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Latest update and I hope I now have the brake linkeage and rods at the correct angle, or at least better!. Added more hinges on the one side and noticed from the info that Kim has been sending me, there is a vertical bar between the two upper hinged doors thats missing from the kit. This looks like it swings and latches which locks the doors in place. I quickly fabricated one, but need to use thinner rod and put it on a bit straighter. Something I will get round to next week (there were funny looking hinge type things in the kit but they didnt resemble anything on the prototype pictures so I have no idea what they are)

 

Progress is slow but it is still progress!! My overall summary so far is that I am happy with the kit and I would definately buy another Falcon kit and live with its minor issues. On the recommendation of others, especially Kim, I will probably buy the MJT W-irons as they would be the correct size and possibly easier to install.

 

Other than that, I am still really enjoying putting the kit together, learning lots from all fo you experts and maybe one day, I will find the courage to try a loco!!

 

Ian

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Edited by ianLMS
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So, after a bit of head scratching, I think I managed to fathom out the handbrake/brake rodding and fitted the bits that go under the chassis. Not in exactly the correct locations, but suitable for the purposes of this effortand not that noticeable once its on the tracks. Excuse the poor soldering. This was my first attempt at soldering white metal, and after obliterating one of the tank brackets, I now know I need to be super careful and super quick until I get me a temp controlled soldering iron.

 

I cheated and used epoxy to glue the gas cylinder onto my brass coach floor. I don't trust myself with whitemetal yet, despite many years of soldering (mainly electronic circuits!).

Edited by 57xx

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I cheated and used epoxy to glue the gas cylinder onto my brass coach floor. I don't trust myself with whitemetal yet, despite many years of soldering (mainly electronic circuits!).

The overwhelming benefit of a temperature controlled soldering iron. ;) 

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The overwhelming benefit of a temperature controlled soldering iron. ;)

Oh I know the benefits of one, I have the one Ian links to below (and very good it is too, so if you've not got one yet Ian, take the plunge). I'm just not ready to sacrifice any parts when there are alternate methods I can use. :)

 

Thank you but no longer available and the 690 SD is a tad over my budget. I have seen this one on the site though http://uk.farnell.com/duratool/d00675/soldering-station-48w-230v-uk/dp/1498364#anchorTechnicalDOCS

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Well, I took a chance and purchased a cheap hot re-work soldering station from Ebay - £79.99. So far, it has been great. The hot air gun is perfect for re-positioning soldered parts which I put in the wrong place (quite often), and for using on white metal (but only in certain circumstances. The temperature controlled iron is very good, even though it only goes down to 200 C, its good enough. 

 

I have attached a picture of it, along with my other recent acquisition, a Proxxon multi-tool plus drill stand which I picked up from Squires at the York show. The hold n fold is from Amazon and is one of the Trumpeter range. Very useful it is too.

 

I also got from Ebay 2 blocks of mild steel in 25 x 25 x 100mm and 50" x 50" x 100cm sizes (far left of pic) and a brass block (all to help hold things down, use as a square and stop things moving).

 

I also picked up several different diameters of aluminium (right of pic) and steel rod from Ebay (from 3mm up to 25mm) each 150cm long to aid with rolling brass etc. Much cheaper buying them indivually compared to one of those rolling kits (£20 versus £60).

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Edited by ianLMS

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